Water report jargon?

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Alex4mula

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Looking to move to all grain in near future I started reading this water article here (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/importance-brewing-water.html). I found this water report from my city (https://www.canton-mi.org/DocumentCenter/View/7019/2017-Water-Quality-Report) but other than Sodium and Chlorine I couldn't identify anything else. Can someone help me define each of the terms below? What to look for? I have been using spring and distilled water for my extract brews but would like to start to understand this a little better. Thanks.

Reverse Osmosis (Starting Water)
Ca Mg Na SO4 Cl HCO3
0 0 0 0 0 0
 
I cannot help a lot with defining terms as I am a newbie with water chemistry, other than mapping the symbols to the article you linked, which has descriptions:
  • Ca = Calcium
  • Mg = Magnesium
  • SO4 = Sulphate
  • Cl = Chloride
  • Na = Sodium
  • HCO3 = Bicarbonate
Yeah, the report that my local water system puts out does not have much of the info needed for brewing. They are more interesting in reporting the potentially unsafe contaminates (like lead) than stuff like Calcium. I have some info that was passed along to me, but as I am trying to learn water chemistry I figured I should get an analysis done on my water. I just ordered a test kit from Ward Labs today..it is around $40 for the kit that includes shipping and a bottle, but I think you can mail in your own filled bottle and save a few dollars.

I have not read that linked article, but the water chapters in "How to Brew" (I have the 4th edition) have a pretty good description of the impact of stuff like Calcium, Magnesium, etc. The "Brew Science" forum has way more info than I have been able to digest on the topic of water chemistry.
 
That report is focused on the suitability of the water for drinking (not making people sick). It doesn't give the info you need for brewing. It does tell us though that water is taken from the Detroit river. Detroit water also comes from Detroit river or other similar surface water sources, so should have a similar profile. Detroit water is listed in a few places (from a quick web search) as in the range of:
Mg: 8 to 14
Ca: 27 to 30
Na: 5 to 8
SO4: 23 to 31
Cl: 0 to 10
Bicarbonate: 74 to 76

Those numbers are all fairly moderate. The main thing you'll need to focus on is reducing the bicarbonate (alkalinity) to get a suitable mash pH. The alkalinity present is suitable for (roughly) amber and brown ales, but will need to be eliminated for pale beers. Use about 5mL of 10% phosphoric acid per gallon of brewing water to remove alkalinity. For very pale beers, you might need more acid still to counter the alkalinity of the grain; for darker beers you may need less acid if the grains are acidic with regards to mash pH. The other thing you need to do with your water is raise the Calcium a little - add either gypsum (Calcium sulphate) or Calcium chloride.
 
What they said ^ and ^^

You can send in your own (small) bottle to Ward Labs, no need to pay extra $$ for them to send one to you...

But... a water test is only a snapshot, water composition may change due to season, rainfall, thaws, droughts, etc. So a sample today maybe quite a bit different next week or next month, or in Summer.

You can call your water company and ask to talk to someone IRT your water quality, and get the ppm for those minerals we're interested in. They have the numbers. Also ask how stable they are during the year, how large fluctuations are.

This info really should be available online, they take tests every day. Or they should.

If those numbers are fairly stable, the Bicarbonate is the only one that's little high, but can be fixed with some (extra) acid. Use a mash/water calculator and it will tell you how much. I use Bru'nwater and Mash Made Easy.

Don't forget to treat all your brewing water from the faucet with a good pinch of Campden or K-Meta, to remove Chlorine or Chloramines.
 
Thank you all! This really helps. Definitely I need to learn a lot more on this. Currently I have used three type of bottled water in my four extract brews (Drink, 1, Spring, 2, Distilled in fermenter). I wanted to try tap water if it was not horrible. I also has a RO filter that I could get water from if I plan it early (Glacier Bay low vol faucet tap). This water thing looks more complex than anything else.
 
The biggest water issue most new brewers have trouble understanding is the difference between pH and alkalinity. Basically, pH is a measure of how far along the scale (measuring Hydrogen ions) something is, alkalinity is a measure of how strongly it resists moving along the scale.

Think of it like a tug-of-war: how far from centre the rope/tag has been moved is like the measure of pH. Could we easily move it back the other way? If it was a 40lb child on each end, an adult could easily shift the rope. If there was a group of 10 280lb man mountains on each end, we would need more effort to shift the rope. That's like alkalinity - how much resistance is there holding the rope (or pH) in place. Bicarbonate wants to hold the pH higher than we want it. That's why it all needs to be removed for brewing, by countering it with acid (acid-base neutralisation).

Alkalinity can be removed by direct addition of acid, or using acidic grains (dark grains are acidic). Pale grains (most base malts) are also slightly alkaline, compared to target mash pH. Target mash pH is typically 5.4, but most pale grains are about 5.7 (but variable). Therefore, the alkalinity from pale grains also needs to be countered. The good news is that brewing water software does a reasonable job of getting you in the pH range you need for brewing (some will argue that point, but few brewers make their own calculations of pH) simply by entering the grains you are using and your water profile. I'd suggest you give mash made easy a try - it's simple and developed by a brewer on this forum (Larry, aka silverismoney) who'll assist when needed.

What else do you need?
Chlorine, or chloramine where used, needs to be removed because it can make beer taste bad. Simple. Add a campden tablet to your water and leave it overnight. I use rainwater so this isn't an issue for me and I've never had to do it.
Calcium: You need some to help several brewing processes, including yeast flocculation. Most sources say 40 to 50ppm minimum. I've brewed with 20 to 30ppm and the beer was fine.
Magnesium: You don't need to add any.
Sodium/Chloride/Sulfate: These affect flavour, just like different types of seasonings in cooking. Sodium can increase flavour perception. Chloride pushes the malty fullness of beer. Sulfate lends a dryness that suits bitter beers. You can try adding very small amounts to a glass of beer to see how they affect flavour perception.

Hope this helps!
 
So I get my water from Detroit, I live in Livonia but all our water is Detroit. Many communities around Detroit get water from Detroit. Not sure if Canton is one of them

Here is the 2019 summary

  • Ca = Calcium 28.4
  • Mg = Magnesium 8.20
  • SO4 = Sulphate 25
  • Cl = Chloride 10.7
  • Na = Sodium 6.4
  • HCO3 = Bicarbonate 71
  • pH 7.33
  • Non Carbonate hardness 29
All these numbers are an average of what im assuming is several readings throughout the year.

Waht do you guys think about this profile, any thing need adjusting for brewing?
 
Looking to move to all grain in near future I started reading this water article here (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/importance-brewing-water.html). I found this water report from my city (https://www.canton-mi.org/DocumentCenter/View/7019/2017-Water-Quality-Report) but other than Sodium and Chlorine I couldn't identify anything else. Can someone help me define each of the terms below? What to look for? I have been using spring and distilled water for my extract brews but would like to start to understand this a little better. Thanks.

Reverse Osmosis (Starting Water)
Ca Mg Na SO4 Cl HCO3
0 0 0 0 0 0

I always recommend a quick read of the sticky here.
 
The biggest water issue most new brewers have trouble understanding is the difference between pH and alkalinity. Basically, pH is a measure of how far along the scale (measuring Hydrogen ions) something is, alkalinity is a measure of how strongly it resists moving along the scale.

Think of it like a tug-of-war: how far from centre the rope/tag has been moved is like the measure of pH. Could we easily move it back the other way? If it was a 40lb child on each end, an adult could easily shift the rope. If there was a group of 10 280lb man mountains on each end, we would need more effort to shift the rope. That's like alkalinity - how much resistance is there holding the rope (or pH) in place. Bicarbonate wants to hold the pH higher than we want it. That's why it all needs to be removed for brewing, by countering it with acid (acid-base neutralisation).

Alkalinity can be removed by direct addition of acid, or using acidic grains (dark grains are acidic). Pale grains (most base malts) are also slightly alkaline, compared to target mash pH. Target mash pH is typically 5.4, but most pale grains are about 5.7 (but variable). Therefore, the alkalinity from pale grains also needs to be countered. The good news is that brewing water software does a reasonable job of getting you in the pH range you need for brewing (some will argue that point, but few brewers make their own calculations of pH) simply by entering the grains you are using and your water profile. I'd suggest you give mash made easy a try - it's simple and developed by a brewer on this forum (Larry, aka silverismoney) who'll assist when needed.

What else do you need?
Chlorine, or chloramine where used, needs to be removed because it can make beer taste bad. Simple. Add a campden tablet to your water and leave it overnight. I use rainwater so this isn't an issue for me and I've never had to do it.
Calcium: You need some to help several brewing processes, including yeast flocculation. Most sources say 40 to 50ppm minimum. I've brewed with 20 to 30ppm and the beer was fine.
Magnesium: You don't need to add any.
Sodium/Chloride/Sulfate: These affect flavour, just like different types of seasonings in cooking. Sodium can increase flavour perception. Chloride pushes the malty fullness of beer. Sulfate lends a dryness that suits bitter beers. You can try adding very small amounts to a glass of beer to see how they affect flavour perception.

Hope this helps!


Oops, never mind, this post did an excellent job describing how to fix Detroit water!

Thanks for this!
 
Waht do you guys think about this profile, any thing need adjusting for brewing?

One thing that I learned as I got into water chemistry (just back in 2019, so I am still very new to this) was that there are two basic types of tap water. There is tap water that is not suitable to brewing, and there is tap water that is good for brewing a narrow range of styles.

My quick read of your water profile is that it is pretty solid for paler style beers. Maybe not the perfect Pilsner profile, but closer to that than it is to a hoppy American IPA or a malty Porter. It is a water profile than can easily be tweaked with additions.

I brewed for many years using tap water that had a little higher mineral count than yours and I made good beers. Looking back I can understand why I had better luck with beers like an Irish Red than I did with IPAs and why some of my beers were lacking in mouthfeel. I am making better beers now than I used to, but for me it was not like water chemistry adjustments took my beers from a 6 to a 9, but more like from a 8.1 to a 8.4. If you are still working out your process and areas like fermentation temps, yeast pitching rates, packaging, etc. then water adjustments may not be your top priority.
 
So I get my water from Detroit, I live in Livonia but all our water is Detroit. Many communities around Detroit get water from Detroit. Not sure if Canton is one of them

Here is the 2019 summary

  • Ca = Calcium 28.4
  • Mg = Magnesium 8.20
  • SO4 = Sulphate 25
  • Cl = Chloride 10.7
  • Na = Sodium 6.4
  • HCO3 = Bicarbonate 71
  • pH 7.33
  • Non Carbonate hardness 29
All these numbers are an average of what im assuming is several readings throughout the year.

Waht do you guys think about this profile, any thing need adjusting for brewing?

Thanks! I got that at end of last year and started using 50/50 or 75/25 mix of Tap/RO water with adjustments. For clear beers I usually use 100% RO. For amber and darker then I mix. But still requires adjustment.
 
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