Washing yeast cake v harvesting from bottle? Better results?

[zonkman]

So, I always wash my yeast, keep it in the fridge until next time, make a starter again, pitch.

I've never thought to harvest yeast from the bottom of a bottle of my brew instead. Until now.

My question: do these methods produce different results? Is one *better* than the other? Culturing from a bottle suddenly seems a good deal easier... but will the yeast be more stressed (etc) due to longer contact with > alcohol? At the same time, the absence of trub is appealing.

 

[Kent88]

Everything I've read suggests top-cropping is best.

After that, I don't know if I've read anything that suggests that harvesting from primary is outright better/worse than the bottle. My guess is that it depends.

The benefits I would see from collecting from primary are that you have a lot more yeast to work with and they haven't been dormant for long and you can use what you collect sooner. However there is more gunk like troob and hop sludge to rinse out.

The benefits I see from collecting from the bottle is that you aren't restricted to collecting at one particular time, and you are pretty much collecting just yeast. However, you're introducing more opportunities for other microbes to get in there during the bottling process; if the beer is strong you might get less healthy yeasts (osmotic pressure); you are collecting a smaller amount of yeast; and the yeast have been dormant for longer.

I've done both, and they've both worked.

 

[Gavin C]

Give the washing a miss. It's really of no benefit to you and without specialist lab gear is a futile endeavor. You wash nothing.

Just harvest the slurry as is. Very simple to do after the beer is packaged.

Another easy and effective way to get potentially limitless supply of quality yeast is by overbuilding starters.

 

[zonkman]

And then just pitch the slurry as is into the next beer's starter, ultimately pitching it into the new beer too? No side effects?

Very interesting idea regarding pumping up the initial starter. That probably sounds like the best idea - putting some yeast aside at the outset.

 

[brandonlovesbeer]

The only thing with bottle harvesting is... you don’t 100% know if that is the primary fermentation yeast or the bottle conditioning yeast.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

The only thing with bottle harvesting is... you don’t 100% know if that is the primary fermentation yeast or the bottle conditioning yeast.

Other than really big beers that have been aging a long time, most people don't add more/different yeast for bottle conditioning.

 

[brandonlovesbeer]

Other than really big beers that have been aging a long time, most people don't add more/different yeast for bottle conditioning.

My apologies. I was thinking about when harvesting from commercial bottles. I don’t know why my mind went there.
But that was the first thing I thought of when he mentioned resurrecting yeast from bottles.

 

[zonkman]

Thanks all for the advice! I think I'm going to give pitching pure slurry (no washing) a shot. I collected the slurry of a 5gal 1318 ESB batch as is on Jan 20.

MrMalty seems to suggest that I need only about 28ml for a 1gal batch (Nut Brown, split batch). I entered the "non-yeast percentage" at the max 25% (right?). Does that make sense? 2 x tablespoons of unwashed slurry, and that's it?

 

[homebrewer_99]

I wash when I harvest. Sometimes when I make a starter with new yeast I'll pour off some into 2 vials (I have a couple dozen of them, remember those?) for future starters.

 

[Schreiner]

I've read that harvesting yeast from your home brew secondary or bottles would favor the least floculent yeast, which is usually not desirable. It makes some sense to me anyway.

 

[Kent88]

I've read that harvesting yeast from your home brew secondary or bottles would favor the least floculent yeast, which is usually not desirable.

Depends on the style. If you are harvesting yeast to use in a big beer that you plan to age a few months, or a lager, or probably a wheat beer, then you might want something that doesn't flocculate quickly.

 

[Schreiner]

Depends on the style. If you are harvesting yeast to use in a big beer that you plan to age a few months, or a lager, or probably a wheat beer, then you might want something that doesn't flocculate quickly.

That's why I said "usually". The OP asked for the +/- of bottle harvesting. When I harvest yeast, I am "usually" banking it for the characteristics that the original culture supposedly had.

 

[ESBrewer]

It's better to harvest early if you want to retain the original character and purity of the yeast. The longer you wait and the more vessels and transfers you do, the higher the chance to get contaminations or spontaneous mutations that can lead to problems or changes in the yeast properties.

 

[Kent88]

That's why I said "usually".

Yep, and I was just expanding on the scenarios where that might even be helpful. Not sure if you took that as me trying to be confrontational, but I didn't intend to. I do agree that usually such drift is undesirable.

Hey, you're in Wausau! I've been driving through there a lot the last couple months.

 

[Schreiner]

I wasn't sure [emoji56]. I think we are on the same page. Wausau is my home. Yesir.

 

[Kent88]

Maybe someday we can trade some beers if we meet in a public place and you promise not to stab me.

 

[Schreiner]

Lol! No promises.

 

[kh54s10]

As far as the difference I don't know.

As far as ease, reusing the yeast cake would be a lot easier. If the yeast was in primary for less than a month and stored in the fridge for 2 weeks or less I would just pitch about 1 pint of the cake.

If you were starting from bottle dregs I would collect from at least 4 bottles. Make a weak 250 mL starter, step that up to .5 liter with another weaker than normal starter then use that to make the size starter you need for your brew.

So, IMO, it is not simple to make a starter from bottle dregs.

 

[zonkman]

MrMalty - http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html - is telling me I only need 28ml 1318 slurry / gal for my next brew, a nut brown (1.054 OG). That does seem a lot less than I thought. A pint is 473ml.

Thoughts?

I know it's an inexact science and all - how much non-yeast matter coincidently ends up in those 2 tablespoons, the quality of the chosen ones. Should I, to be safe, maybe add a third table spoon, bringing the total to 44ml?

 

[Kent88]

Lol! No promises.

 

[kh54s10]

MrMalty - http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html - is telling me I only need 28ml 1318 slurry / gal for my next brew, a nut brown (1.054 OG). That does seem a lot less than I thought. A pint is 473ml.

Thoughts?

I know it's an inexact science and all - how much non-yeast matter coincidently ends up in those 2 tablespoons, the quality of the chosen ones. Should I, to be safe, maybe add a third table spoon, bringing the total to 44ml?

The Pint that I referred to was assuming 5 gallons batch using not so fresh yeast. So if fresher, thinner - less sediment in the sample, you may get away with a smaller amount. If there are a lot of hops in the harvested sample you will need more.

 

[hawkbox]

I just overbuild a starter and hang onto some of it for next time.

 

[VTX1300]

What hawkbox said.
Overbuilding starters give me all the fresh, clean yeast I need. I have not purchased ale yeast in almost a year.