Want to try Saison

[FB12]

Hello All!
I've been brewing tons of IPA/APA, & dark beers lately. Can't get enough hops! I've only done a few Belgians. In the past, i made a double, a wit, & a blonde which were ok. Now i'd like to try a Saison, but know little about them. I'm not a big fan of sweet, fruity beers, but want to try a Saison with a little spice. I saw a recipe that looked good, but called for Sorachi Ace hops. Apparently there hard to find & i've read mixed reviews. Any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[ericbw]

Hello All!
I've been brewing tons of IPA/APA, & dark beers lately. Can't get enough hops! I've only done a few Belgians. In the past, i made a double, a wit, & a blonde which were ok. Now i'd like to try a Saison, but know little about them. I'm not a big fan of sweet, fruity beers, but want to try a Saison with a little spice. I saw a recipe that looked good, but called for Sorachi Ace hops. Apparently there hard to find & i've read mixed reviews. Any suggestions? Thanks.

You need to try some saisons and see what you like. If you've made a wit, you can do something similar but use saison yeast. Saaz and styrian goldings are classic. But really anything goes.


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[Calder]

Saisons are about the yeast, and nice and dry. Geneally low levels of Noble or Englsh hops.

Unless you really like SA, stay away from them. Especially in a Saison

 

[JBIII]

+1 to what Calder said...Saisons really are about the yeast. I typically use .75oz of Sterling for bittering and .5 oz of Hallertau with 10 minutes left in boil, for a 5 gallon batch.

As far as some of the "spices" I've played around with...I've experimented with black peppercorns, fresh basil leaves, apricots, grapefruit zest, peaches, orange zest and grains of paradise.

One of the biggest things with Saisons is making sure the primary fermentation temps are pretty high, like high 80s to mid 90s, depending on the strain.

 

[DoWBrewer]

I know that Saisons typically have noble hops. I have been using Nothern Brewer and Citra. The citrus marries well with the WLP Saison III yeast. It is by far the best beer I have ever brewed. Here is my recipe if you are interested.

I start the fermentation at 65 for two days. I then add the sugar and let it free rise. Depending on the ambient temp, I will sometimes ramp up the heat to low 70s with a heat source.

 

[TriggerFingers]

My Saison uses 3711 and both Nelson Sauvin and Galaxy hops in a 30 minute total boik. The hops are a nice addition but what is really noticeable is the yeast. 3711 is a monster. Going to do another test batch with Belle Saison (which is supposedly a dry variant of 3711). Keep the IBU's under 30 (20-25 is ideal).

 

[FB12]

Thanks for good info. all. Think i'll try a couple more commercial versions & do some homework before brewing this one. Right now there's not a spot in my house over 66 deg. either Care to tell me a couple comm. ones to seek out? Thanks again.

 

[ericbw]

Ommegang Hennepin is a good one that's readily accessible depending on where you are. Pyramid had a strawberry saison that was really good, but might only be in their pub. Goose Island's Sofie is a saison, but I recall not liking it.

 

[ericbw]

Oh, Shiner has a farmhouse called FM966. I think it changes with the season, and the one I had last year was pretty barnyardy and less fruity/sweet than some saisons.

 

[DoWBrewer]

I would look for Saison Dupont. It is fairly easy to find and defines the style.

 

[ChefRex]

If you don't have temperature control keep making your IPAs and such and save the saisons till the summer when the high temperatures would be an issue with other yeasts.
Dupont is excellent and you can harvest the yeast but does need high temperatures.

 

[Qhrumphf]

+1 on trying Saison Dupont. It's fairly easy to find (although if you can get brown glass, do so. The green bottles I can usually find are skunked 90% of the time), and is one benchmark of the style.

Are you looking to do extract or all grain? You need to make sure it gets dry enough. Fairly easy with all-grain, can be a little tougher with extract since you can't directly control the fermentability.

I've never used Sorachi Ace myself (although had beers with em). My favorite combo is Styrian Goldings and Strisselspalt. I use a fair amount of late hops (primarily Strisselspalt), but I don't dry hop it. Other variants I'll go noble hops (Hallertau, Tettenang, and/or Saaz). I don't like American hops in Saisons usually, but that's just my preference.

As far as recipe, yeast strain is going to be everything. It's a very broad style with a lot of interpretation possible. Wyeast 3711 is a beast, will easily get almost anything to the appropriate level of dryness, and is easy to work with. However, I find its flavor profile to be so mild for a Saison yeast that it's almost mute. Danstar Belle Saison dry yeast would also be pretty easy to work with, and I think the flavor is a small step up from 3711, but not much. My preference is 3724 Belgian Saison from Wyeast, or the equivalent WLP565 Belgian Saison I from White Labs. This is the Dupont strain, and the flavor is awesome, however it's also notoriously hard to work with and is known for stalling out around 1.020-1.030. There's a bunch of other strains and blends available, including a number with wild yeast and bacteria that some folks are really fond of. Or you could culture from a bottle.

As far as grain bill, pils malt should be the main component. My go to is ~70% Pils, ~10% Munich, ~5% Aromatic, ~2.5% Carapils, and then the rest simple sugar. Corn sugar will work well. I like using a clear/blonde Belgian candi syrup (the syrup, not the hard rocks, don't waste your money on those). If you're doing all grain, mash low, maybe 147. If you're doing extract, you might want to up the sugar from 10-12% closer to 15-20%.

That's my 2c.

 

[BreezyBrew]

First of all, saisons are the ultimate summer beer. Nice crisp dry flavor that is refreshing and much more complex than a lager. Easier to brew too as it needs less temperature control. That's great for me since I'm in Florida. As others have mentioned some of the yeasts do tend to stall but if you have a fermentation wrap you are good to go. I use 3711 because it's easy and you can ferment it at 68.

I highly recommend the Cottage House on here, its a proven great recipe. Even a BMC drinker loved it. It's not super funky, has all the hallmarks of the style. Very well balanced.

 

[DoWBrewer]

For easy temp control for winter, wrap your fermenter in an electric blanket. It works well for me.

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[Qhrumphf]

For easy temp control for winter, wrap your fermenter in an electric blanket. It works well for me.

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This is what I do as well. You have to be REALLY careful though, since it's easy to overdo it. I use the lowest setting or two for most Belgians during the winter. Maybe a few clicks above that for the Dupont strain. If you go on full blast, you can easily push it too high for even the the Dupont strain.

 

[DoWBrewer]

This is what I do as well. You have to be REALLY careful though, since it's easy to overdo it. I use the lowest setting or two for most Belgians during the winter. Maybe a few clicks above that for the Dupont strain. If you go on full blast, you can easily push it too high for even the the Dupont strain.

Agreed. I start with the lowest setting and check the temp several times a day. I then will slowly ramp up.

 

[CrystalShip]

i don't really like belgian beers but made a rye saison recently. the results were lovely.

8# pilsner
2# rye malt
1# organic agave nectar

150 degree mash temp. 90min boil

.5oz saaz (3.2%AA)@FWH
1.5oz saaz (3.2%AA)@90
1oz saaz (3.2%aa) @15min
.5oz crushed coriander@5min

5.3 gallons in fermenter 1.053 og, 1.003 fg. 26ibu. Wyeast 3711 fermented on the lower end of the temp range.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

I have two different Saison recipes (well, three actually, but the first one wasn't as good as I'd hoped), found here and here. They might be of interest to you, I don't know.

 

[MikePote]

I am currently doing a saison with omengang yeast I cultured from a bottle of hennipin. I did a SUPER simple recipe similar to Crystal Ship's but I used a pound of wheat instead of rye and table sugar instead of agave. I intentionally made it really simple and inexpensive with the yeast providing the flavor. I mashed low (149 for 90 minutes) and am fermenting in my 72 degree kitchen. I have a blow dryer next to the fermenter that I turn on a couple times a day to raise the temp to 80 or so. Not sure if that is a good idea but from what Ive read people go as high as 90 with a saison. Look at the cottage house in the recipe section. It seems to be really well liked. I was going to brew it before I decided to go ultra simple. Good luck

 

[ericbw]

I am currently doing a saison with omengang yeast I cultured from a bottle of hennipin. I did a SUPER simple recipe similar to Crystal Ship's but I used a pound of wheat instead of rye and table sugar instead of agave. I intentionally made it really simple and inexpensive with the yeast providing the flavor. I mashed low (149 for 90 minutes) and am fermenting in my 72 degree kitchen. I have a blow dryer next to the fermenter that I turn on a couple times a day to raise the temp to 80 or so. Not sure if that is a good idea but from what Ive read people go as high as 90 with a saison. Look at the cottage house in the recipe section. It seems to be really well liked. I was going to brew it before I decided to go ultra simple. Good luck

I think simple is best, at least for the first try with it. And it's really a super cheap style if you culture and save the yeast.

 

[FB12]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I picked up a bottle of Dupont(yeah, it was a green bottle!) and it was ok, but definitely a little skunky on the nose. Also tried Sofie and thought it would be a great summer beer, although a little sweet. I'm gonna try a couple more, but i do like the look of that Cottage House recipe. Would subbing the SA & Fuggles with Northern Brewer & EKG work? I know i like those varieties. Also, what's the scoop with Dupont yeast being stubborn? Does it need a consistent rise in temp to finish out? I'm also looking at a Ferm Wrap & control soon. Thanks again!

 

[2bluewagons]

Being in Wisconsin, wouldn't New Glarus be a good source for fresh farmhouse beer? Being way out West, I've never tried their beers but heard good things all over the place about them.

I've brewed a couple with 3711 so far, but nothing that has given me huge yeast character, so I'll be trying to wrestle with 3724 for the next one.

Also have no experience with SA hops, but I hear they can be quite lemony. If you're looking for some of that without overpowering, consider grains of paradise as your spice addition. Hints of citrus and pepper but pretty mellow with restrained usage. Maybe that could bump up the spice character where 3711 is lacking?

 

[ericbw]

x

 

[Qhrumphf]

Would subbing the SA & Fuggles with Northern Brewer & EKG work? I know i like those varieties. Also, what's the scoop with Dupont yeast being stubborn? Does it need a consistent rise in temp to finish out?

Saison is a very broad category with lots of interpretation, so there's many hop combos you could use. I've never used EKG and NB together, but it's an intriguing combo.

As far as the yeast, yes, exactly. Constant ramping up to at least the 80s if not 90s gets the best from it and keeps it active. I've gone as high as 101 (and won gold with it) but YMMV there.

Too low of a temp or a dropping temp and it likes to stall.

 

[asten77]

Maybe not for OP, but Northern Brewer's Petite Saison d'ete is outstanding. I did an extract kit last summer, and my house has never gone through 5 gallons of beer so quickly.

 

[sudbuster]

Hello All!
I've been brewing tons of IPA/APA, & dark beers lately. Can't get enough hops! I've only done a few Belgians. In the past, i made a double, a wit, & a blonde which were ok. Now i'd like to try a Saison, but know little about them. I'm not a big fan of sweet, fruity beers, but want to try a Saison with a little spice. I saw a recipe that looked good, but called for Sorachi Ace hops. Apparently there (they're) hard to find & i've (I've) read mixed reviews. Any suggestions? Thanks.

After a while, you will get over the hop bombs and start to settle into beer that you can taste the background in. Saison is one of those. There is a lot going on with siasons. Usually the yeast (Saisons are yeast centered) is enough to provide the esters needed to provide an interesting brew even without additional spices. IMHO, adding spices is an attempt to cover up flaws. But that's just me. Good luck with your saison. Let us know how it turns out for you.

 

[FB12]

Much thanks for all the input. I'll be brewing a Saison tomorrow using a recipe i came up with cobbling several ideas. Using WY3711 & mashing @148 for 90 min. I also picked up a Fermwrap & digital controller to keep it in the low 70's for 3 weeks. This is what I came up with:

60% Belg. Pilsner
20% Vienna
10% Caramunich
10% Flaked Wheat
1 oz. EKG FWH
.25 oz. Saaz @10
.25 oz. Styr. Goldings @10
.75 oz. Saaz @0
.75 oz. Styr. Goldings @0
May add a small amount of bitter orange peel @5

5.7 ABV 29IBU 8.6 SRM per Beersmith2

Any major concerns? Also, would there be any benefit to boiling longer than 60 minutes? Thanks!

 

[Qhrumphf]

Much thanks for all the input. I'll be brewing a Saison tomorrow using a recipe i came up with cobbling several ideas. Using WY3711 & mashing @148 for 90 min. I also picked up a Fermwrap & digital controller to keep it in the low 70's for 3 weeks. This is what I came up with:

60% Belg. Pilsner
20% Vienna
10% Caramunich
10% Flaked Wheat
1 oz. EKG FWH
.25 oz. Saaz @10
.25 oz. Styr. Goldings @10
.75 oz. Saaz @0
.75 oz. Styr. Goldings @0
May add a small amount of bitter orange peel @5

5.7 ABV 29IBU 8.6 SRM per Beersmith2

Any major concerns? Also, would there be any benefit to boiling longer than 60 minutes? Thanks!

You'll want to boil that for 90 minutes. 60 may not be enough to boil off the DMS from all that pilsner malt.

 

[FB12]

Hello Again,
It's been just over 3 weeks since brew day on this one. I wrapped the fermenter with a fermwrap & started @ 68. After a few days raised to 72-73where it's been ever since. OG was 1.051 & today the SG was @ .999 according to my hydrometer. Is it even possible to attenuate that low? Beersmith estimated 1.006 & I'm quite sure my hydrometer is accurate. It sure smells & looks good. I plan on checking again in a few days then keg. Is WY3711 really that voracious, or should I be concerned about wild yeast? Thanks!

 

[Joe9216]

is that FG with a correction? any temperature over 60-65F will be slightly off. at 73F a fg reading of .999 will be corrected to 1.001 according to my quick math (may be wrong though). It is possible attenuate that low, but it will be really dry.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I've never had 3711 go below 1.000, but I've heard stories of it happening. However, if you're in the upper temp range like that, 0.999 correcting to 1.001, and you're in the potential range of 3711. I've had it go from 1.065 to 1.002 before.

 

[Calder]

I've had 3711 go down to 1.000 on a bigger beer than this. It is a beast. It is 'possible' to get down to about 0.990.