Want to brew a Stout

[brew703]

I would like to brew a stout in the coming weeks. The two up for contention are Yoopers Oatmeal Stout and Left Hand Milk Stout.

I want something that is not harsh, one that is smooth, somewhat malty, silky and easy drinking.

I've read a lot about using roasted barley, black barley, steeping the dark grains etc. Just not sure of the best process and what to use and not to use.

Would it be best to reduce the roasted barley in the Left Hand clone and increase the choc malt to smooth it out?

For Yoopers, she doesn't use roasted barley. Instead she uses black barley, which i believe is smoother than roasted barley?

For those who have brewed both of these, which would you recommend? Which is smoother? Silkier? I would think Yoopers would be more malty due to the use of MO vs 2 Row.

Should I steep the dark grains? What would be the benefit doing that vs including in the mash?

I've only consumed two stout's, Left hand and Bells Kalamazoo. Thought the LH had some harshness and astringency I didn't care for. The Bells was a little better.

 

[mashinary]

I haven't brewed either of these specifically, but I have made tons of stouts over the years. One thing to note, the name chocolate malt is not accurate. It doesn't impart a chocolate flavor.

I personally just mash everything and then modify a recipe from there to taste. If you think the Left Hand stout was heavy on the dark malts, dial them back.

Also, not sure if you use brewing software, but check out the sample recipes from BeerSmith, it might give you an idea of what's common across several recipes, which you can apply to the few stouts you have tried.

I'd also go out and pick up a few different stouts and have a tasting session and see what you like. My two personal favorite stouts are Rouge Shakespeare Stout, and Sierra Nevada's stout.

 

[brew703]

Thanks for the info. I use Beersmith and Brewers Friend. There are not alot of stouts available in the stores down here. I will be in NOLA next weekend and there are some bars I will be hitting up that serve alot of beers on tap. I'll have to check their tap list to see which stouts they have.
I'll also check out a few recipes on beersmith.

 

[augiedoggy]

Thanks for the info. I use Beersmith and Brewers Friend. There are not alot of stouts available in the stores down here. I will be in NOLA next weekend and there are some bars I will be hitting up that serve alot of beers on tap. I'll have to check their tap list to see which stouts they have.
I'll also check out a few recipes on beersmith.

I often compare the different recipes on beersmiths cloud to formulate my own...

Keep in mind from the "smoother" stout without the roasted barley, what your describing is really more of a porter as "stout" is really a style that derived from an extra roasty/ bitter "stout porter"... I think you may find what your after here is more of a porter... the lactose or oatmeal is added to stouts to help balance out the additional roasted grain and sweeten the stout a bit but there is still usually an additional complexity to the beer vs the smoother porter style. The trick here is not to end up with too sweet a beer.

Last week I actually made a variant of the oatmeal stout recipe from a book I bought from John Palmer a few months ago called "brewing classic styles" only I subbed some of the chocolate malt for some coffee malt variants.. I cant wait to try it since its the first time Ive used such malts.

 

[InLimbo]

I often compare the different recipes on beersmiths cloud to formulate my own...

...

Last week I actually made a variant of the oatmeal stout recipe from a book I bought from John Palmer a few months ago called "brewing classic styles"....

Great information in this post. I think a porter would be a better call for something smooth and dark as well.

Just to give credit where it's due: Brewing Classic Styles was a joint effort between Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer--Jamil's recipes, and Palmer probably did most of the technical editing & input. Both awesome guys and awesome authors, just want to make sure Jamil get's his recognition!

 

[augiedoggy]

Great information in this post. I think a porter would be a better call for something smooth and dark as well.

Just to give credit where it's due: Brewing Classic Styles was a joint effort between Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer--Jamil's recipes, and Palmer probably did most of the technical editing & input. Both awesome guys and awesome authors, just want to make sure Jamil get's his recognition!

I'm aware Jamil was the cowriter.. I wasnt commenting on who wrote it just who I actually bought the book from.. he autographed it as well A lot of the recipes came from friends of theirs as well as their own.

 

[MaxStout]

I've brewed Yooper's stout 3 times, and I really enjoy it. It's become a winter tradition in my rotation. The pale chocolate and black barley give it a smoother flavor, with much less astringency. I compare it to one of my favorite oatmeal stouts, Samuel Smith's. The WY1335 yeast really gives it complexity. Try it with Denny's Favorite 1450, another good match for this recipe.

 

[brew703]

I often compare the different recipes on beersmiths cloud to formulate my own...

Keep in mind from the "smoother" stout without the roasted barley, what your describing is really more of a porter as "stout" is really a style that derived from an extra roasty/ bitter "stout porter"... I think you may find what your after here is more of a porter... the lactose or oatmeal is added to stouts to help balance out the additional roasted grain and sweeten the stout a bit but there is still usually an additional complexity to the beer vs the smoother porter style. The trick here is not to end up with too sweet a beer.

Last week I actually made a variant of the oatmeal stout recipe from a book I bought from John Palmer a few months ago called "brewing classic styles" only I subbed some of the chocolate malt for some coffee malt variants.. I cant wait to try it since its the first time Ive used such malts.

Thanks for the info. I'll check out some porter recipes.

 

[Yooper]

I've brewed Yooper's stout 3 times, and I really enjoy it. It's become a winter tradition in my rotation. The pale chocolate and black barley give it a smoother flavor, with much less astringency. I compare it to one of my favorite oatmeal stouts, Samuel Smith's. The WY1335 yeast really gives it complexity. Try it with Denny's Favorite 1450, another good match for this recipe.

Yes, my goal was to not have big roasted barley (burnt/acrid) taste, but instead more of a coffee type of roasted flavor. I love coffee, but not harsh dark roast, so I wanted it to be more of a medium coffee roasted flavor, with a silky mouthfeel. That's where the oats come in- for that silkiness. The flaked barley aids with head retention as well as help with the mouthfeel also.

I really love the Denny's Favorite yeast with it, and I think I described the mouthfeel as "luscious" at one point. But it's not a heavy beer, and it's not too roasted where you don't want more than one. I really like it, and I'm glad you do too!

 

[kevin58]

If you ever become interested in historically accurate Porter and Stout recipes check out the blog "Shut up about Barclay Perkins". http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Keep in mind from the "smoother" stout without the roasted barley, what your describing is really more of a porter as "stout" is really a style that derived from an extra roasty/ bitter "stout porter"...

No - stout beer was just beer that was stronger. Typically it was made with a higher proportion of first runnings in a partigyle, so the grist was the same for stout porter and "ordinary" porter. Back in the 19th century you could get "pale stout" - which was a stronger pale ale, typically stronger than IPA (which wasn't a particularly strong beer).

Roasted barley was never part of stout or porter to start with, because it was illegal for British brewers to use until 1880, many decades after they were invented. Guinness didn't use it until the Great Depression.

Black malt was patented in 1817 and was quickly adopted by Guinness, who soon went to a pale malt + black grist, whereas the London brewers kept using large amounts of brown malt - it was cheaper but less fermentable so more was needed.

Going back to the OP, I'd agree that it would make more sense to start with a porter or even one of the stronger dark milds, and then build up, rather than starting with a stout recipe from the start. Depends what you are looking for - the huge changes through history means all sorts of beers can be labelled porters and stouts, but certainly in modern British usage stouts tend to be much drier and porters tend to have a hint of sweetness to them.

 

[MaxStout]

If you ever become interested in historically accurate Porter and Stout recipes check out the blog "Shut up about Barclay Perkins". http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/

Interesting blog, thanks for posting that! I'll have to scan through it when I have some downtime.

 

[brew703]

I think I'll give Yoopers a try.

 

[brew703]

Yes, my goal was to not have big roasted barley (burnt/acrid) taste, but instead more of a coffee type of roasted flavor. I love coffee, but not harsh dark roast, so I wanted it to be more of a medium coffee roasted flavor, with a silky mouthfeel. That's where the oats come in- for that silkiness. The flaked barley aids with head retention as well as help with the mouthfeel also.

I really love the Denny's Favorite yeast with it, and I think I described the mouthfeel as "luscious" at one point. But it's not a heavy beer, and it's not too roasted where you don't want more than one. I really like it, and I'm glad you do too!

Sounds like what's I'm looking for. I'll brew this next month.

 

[brew703]

Yes, my goal was to not have big roasted barley (burnt/acrid) taste, but instead more of a coffee type of roasted flavor. I love coffee, but not harsh dark roast, so I wanted it to be more of a medium coffee roasted flavor, with a silky mouthfeel. That's where the oats come in- for that silkiness. The flaked barley aids with head retention as well as help with the mouthfeel also.

I really love the Denny's Favorite yeast with it, and I think I described the mouthfeel as "luscious" at one point. But it's not a heavy beer, and it's not too roasted where you don't want more than one. I really like it, and I'm glad you do too!

Yooper, wanted to ask. Has your recipe changed any since you first posted it? Also, how do you think Northern Brewer hops would fair in place of Willamette? I have some NB hops i need to use up but if it's not acceptable, I'll get Willamette.

 

[Yooper]

Yooper, wanted to ask. Has your recipe changed any since you first posted it? Also, how do you think Northern Brewer hops would fair in place of Willamette? I have some NB hops i need to use up but if it's not acceptable, I'll get Willamette.

No, I make it exactly the same!

I think the NB hops would be fine- they are for bittering after all. I have tons of willamette ($6 pound!) so that's why I picked that one, plus I like them but it's not like they bring much flavor at all to a stout.