Want advice on modifying and simplifying an EIPA recipe

[Schol-R-LEA]

I have an EIPA recipe which I have brewed once so far, and while it was quite successful, I am considering what changes might be made to improve it, or just to simplify it. The main concerns are with the specialty malts and the hopping schedule.

The existing recipe calls for a half pound each of aromatic, Victory and biscuit malts. However, those three specialty malts are all quite similar to each other in their affects; Victory and biscuit, in particular, are often said to be simply brand names for the same basic malt. Would it make sense to increase the amount of, say, Victory, and eliminate the biscuit?

Similarly, I used a pound each of Cara-Hell and 10L crystal, which have similar but still distinct profiles. Would it make sense to eliminate one in favor of increasing the other? What alternatives would be worth considering - honey malt (probably only a small amount), a darker crystal such as 45L, or some Munich or Vienna malt?

Regarding the hops, I generally use FWH for both bittering and flavor, but here I have both a FWH addition and a separate bittering addition. Would it make more sense to use FWH exclusively?

Aside from these, does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[chickypad]

Can't read the recipe but it does sound like the grainbill is unnecessarily complicated. I commonly sub biscuit and victory so I think consolidating those is good. I've not used aromatic but I understand it's more of a stronger, darker Munich (malty but not quite like the drier toast of biscuit/victory), so if you're going to add Munich you might sub it in there. I will sometimes use 2 different crystals for more complexity (say in the amber I'm brewing today, using C-40 and C-120). I see less point in using 2 crystal malts of similar L in the same recipe. True there are subtle differences between maltsters, but I tend to go with one or the other. In general I'm not a fan of the kitchen sink beers (unless you're trying to use up leftovers), and I think it's wise to have a specific goal with each ingredient.

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

OK, I fixed the URL in the link, so the recipe should be visible now.

Oh, and I am definitely not going to use the 'pH Stabilizer' any more, but will be doing suitable water adjustment to match the recipe.

 

[JKaranka]

Seems very dark and complex.Why not use amber malt? If you want it malty, keep Biscuit or Victoria and up the Crystal to 45-60l. I'd include a 15m or 20m hop addition. Thinking 10lb Maris Otter, 1/2lb medium crystal, 1/2lb amber malt, 1/2lb biscuit malt. Reduce 60m hop addition and include a 20m EKG. It's much maltier than what I'd usually go for (I use pale and sugar for EIPA, maybe some Amber) but sounds tasty.

 

[JKaranka]

Btw, the BJCP 2015 guidelines are much more accurate for modern-ish British IPA than the old ones. Last IPA I made (over a year ago!) was along the lines of 10lb MO and 2lb flaked maize, with plenty of EKG and Spalt.

From BJCP:

Characteristic Ingredients: Pale ale malt. English hops are traditional, particularly as finishing hops. Attenuative British ale yeast. Refined sugar may be used in some versions. Some versions may show a sulfate character from Burton-type water, but this is not essential to the style.

Style Comparison: Generally will have more finish hops and less fruitiness and/or caramel than British pale ales and bitters.

Has less hop intensity and a more pronounced malt flavor than typical American versions.

Vital Statistics: OG: 1.050 – 1.075 IBUs: 40 – 60 FG: 1.010 – 1.018 SRM: 6 – 14 ABV: 5.0 – 7.5%

 

[JKaranka]

Playing around similar strength and colour I came up with an option if you want to be ruthless:

OG 1.063, 46 IBU, 9.5 SRM

12lb Maris Otter
8oz Amber Malt
4oz Medium Crystal (60L)
4oz Victory

2oz EKG @ 60m
1.5oz EKG @ 20m
2oz EKG @ Dry hop

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

While that recipe does sound like it has potential, it would be considerably different from what I was aiming at. The revised recipe I've come up with so far is:

10 lbs Maris Otter
1 lb 45L Crystal malt
1 lb Aromatic Malt
1 lb Victory Malt
3 oz EKG, First wort hopping
2 oz EKG, dry hopping
Thames Valley Ale yeast

It still will have the distinctively malty qualities I am looking for, with a more balanced quality than most IPAs but still distinctively hoppy. I am a big advocate of FWH, as it is both easy to do and gives a very rounded hop bitterness and flavor with a single addition.

 

[JKaranka]

It's not really an EIPA with that amount of speciality malts (23%!). I think it's more of a strong ale. EIPAs have a subtle balanced malt flavour; you rarely get that amount of speciality malts in any British beer unless it's a mild or a porter, maybe an old ale / stale ale.

Btw, most EIPAs I've had (and that's all the BJCP list except two) tend to be the colour of SNPA or lighter. Many of them are a golden colour. The darkest I know (which has become darker over time) is Worthington's White Shield:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worthington's_White_Shield

FWH is perfectly fine, though!

 

[m00ps]

Yeah 23% specialty malts is far too much, especially for an IPA. I never got above 20% even in my imperial stouts, I stay around 5% for IPAs. I would use honey, aromatic, or vienna as opposed to any crystal or cara malts. Also, some simple sugar always does an IPA good

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

Fair enough. I've come up with a different recipe based on this advice, and have given it a different name:

Craven Fool IPA
10.25 lb. Crisp Maris Otter
1 lb. Bonlander Munich malt 10L
8 oz. Victory malt
4 oz. aromatic malt
Whirlfloc tablet, 10 min.
3 oz EKG (5.8% AAU), FWH
2 oz. EKG, dry hop (added after high krausen falls)
Thames Valley Ale yeast
direct heat mash, two step saccharification (20 min @ 148F, 40 min. @ 156F), 90 minute boil

OG: 1.068, FG: 1.011, Color: 8 SRM, Bitterness: 54.4 IBU, ABV: 7.5%

 

[JKaranka]

I approve

 

[m00ps]

That grain bill looks solid. English IPAs are a bit tough to make since the "authentic" english hops character comes from non-aggressive nobles like EKG. Have you considered using varieties like bramling cross, northdown, target, challenger, pilgrim, etc? Challenger in particular would be great for bitteirng

Or another idea may be to use 1 oz of an acutal bittering hop (magnum?) at 60 and using all that EKG at the end. Ive made a noble IPA with over 16oz of hallertau, saaz, and styrians and the hops were still a bit muddled and uninteresting.