Using Whole Leaf hops - Lots of Questions

[SFGiantsFan925]

After searching for quite some time, I still have not found an answer. I have about 7 batches under my belt (4 extract, 3 AG), so still a newbie for sure. I have converted to BIAB using a 11 gallon kettle.

So, my last batch was an IPA using whole leaf hops. I used a total of 4.5 ounces of hops in the boil. 4 ounces of whole leaf, and 0.5 of pellet at 60 for bittering. I liked using the whole leaf hops, but I feel like they came with some issues.

I added whole leaf Citra hops, 1 oz at a time, at 15, 10, 5, and 1 minutes left. I used hop bags and floated them in the wort (they wouldn't sink)

Here were my issues:
The hops seemed to absorb quite a bit more wort than pellet. Maybe it was just me. But I did try and squeeze out most of the absorbed wort, with clean hands and trying not to touch them and contaminate.

Also, during cleanup, after the boil, I was inspecting the hops and I was breaking them up in my hand. Inside the hops, the lupulin glads were all "intact" and didnt seem to have been released into the wort. Is this okay?? I am trying to get the maximum amount of hop flavor and aroma out of the hops. Is it in the leaves or in the lupulin glands?? Or both??


Here are my other questions regarding whole leaf hops:

1. Should I break up the hops, prior to the boil, to expose the lupulin glands to the hot wort and get more of the AA and flavor?? Or leave the hops completely whole??
2. Do these really absorb more wort than pellet hops or is it a myth??
3. Here is the million dollar question. I know I should have probably NOT used the hop bags. I should have let them be exposed more to the wort than being all stuck together. How would I go about adding them to the wort?? Just add them at their times, go about with the boil, then "filter" them out after the boil? Or do you leave them in to be trub in my fermenter. I feel like they would take up way too much room so I would have to filter them out somehow before adding the cooled wort to the fermentor.
4. Last question. This is regarding any hops. After my 15, 10, 5 additions, I get it. But the 1 minute, or flame out addition, do I really just leave it in there for 1 minute?? With whole leaf, they are barely wet after 1 minute. Is this really adding much?? Should these hops go into the fermenter??? I almost feel like I was wasting them, only being in there for a minute. Do they stay in during cooling??

I appreciate any and all help that you guys give me. I have learned SO much already on these forums. Its been great. Thanks!!! :rockin:

 

[diS]

1. Break it as much as you can, imagine making tea with pressed cube. You want to ensure that every bit of hops are soaked in wort.
2. Don't know, but you can measure it.
3. I am not sure if I understand you correctly, if you are asking whether to leave hops in fermenter I wouldn't do it, but if you are using hop bags you can leave them in boil kettle until you chill and rack wort in fermenter. Hope it helps.
4. With last minute addition you want to leave it until racking is finished to get as much hop oils in wort. This depends on your chilling technique, the longer they stays in wort more aroma will be released in wort, but don't delay chilling just because of this, you'll get more problems than advantages.

 

[duboman]

After searching for quite some time, I still have not found an answer. I have about 7 batches under my belt (4 extract, 3 AG), so still a newbie for sure. I have converted to BIAB using a 11 gallon kettle.

So, my last batch was an IPA using whole leaf hops. I used a total of 4.5 ounces of hops in the boil. 4 ounces of whole leaf, and 0.5 of pellet at 60 for bittering. I liked using the whole leaf hops, but I feel like they came with some issues.

I added whole leaf Citra hops, 1 oz at a time, at 15, 10, 5, and 1 minutes left. I used hop bags and floated them in the wort (they wouldn't sink)

Here were my issues:
The hops seemed to absorb quite a bit more wort than pellet. Maybe it was just me. But I did try and squeeze out most of the absorbed wort, with clean hands and trying not to touch them and contaminate.

Also, during cleanup, after the boil, I was inspecting the hops and I was breaking them up in my hand. Inside the hops, the lupulin glads were all "intact" and didnt seem to have been released into the wort. Is this okay?? I am trying to get the maximum amount of hop flavor and aroma out of the hops. Is it in the leaves or in the lupulin glands?? Or both??


Here are my other questions regarding whole leaf hops:

1. Should I break up the hops, prior to the boil, to expose the lupulin glands to the hot wort and get more of the AA and flavor?? Or leave the hops completely whole??
If you did not use the bag this would not have happened, most likely you did not allow enough room for the expansion of the hops so the wort did not fully saturate them all-skip the bag or use a bigger one
2. Do these really absorb more wort than pellet hops or is it a myth??
Yes they do. I have brewed my House Pale with one batch all whole and another all pellet and I lost more wort with the whole for sure!In addition, you get about 10% better utilization with pellet vs whole
3. Here is the million dollar question. I know I should have probably NOT used the hop bags. I should have let them be exposed more to the wort than being all stuck together. How would I go about adding them to the wort?? Just add them at their times, go about with the boil, then "filter" them out after the boil? Or do you leave them in to be trub in my fermenter. I feel like they would take up way too much room so I would have to filter them out somehow before adding the cooled wort to the fermentor.
Just throw them in and let them swim free, whirl pool once cooled or filter through a strainer as you dump the kettle
4. Last question. This is regarding any hops. After my 15, 10, 5 additions, I get it. But the 1 minute, or flame out addition, do I really just leave it in there for 1 minute?? With whole leaf, they are barely wet after 1 minute. Is this really adding much?? Should these hops go into the fermenter??? I almost feel like I was wasting them, only being in there for a minute. Do they stay in during cooling??
ALL the hops stay in the kettle until you go to primary. The flame out and very late additions just seep through the cooling process and contribute the most aroma/flavor

I appreciate any and all help that you guys give me. I have learned SO much already on these forums. Its been great. Thanks!!! :rockin:

:rockin:

 

[SFGiantsFan925]

1. Break it as much as you can, imagine making tea with pressed cube. You want to ensure that every bit of hops are soaked in wort.
2. Don't know, but you can measure it.
3. I am not sure if I understand you correctly, if you are asking whether to leave hops in fermenter I wouldn't do it, but if you are using hop bags you can leave them in boil kettle until you chill and rack wort in fermenter. Hope it helps.
4. With last minute addition you want to leave it until racking is finished to get as much hop oils in wort. This depends on your chilling technique, the longer they stays in wort more aroma will be released in wort, but don't delay chilling just because of this, you'll get more problems than advantages.

Thanks for the reply. As for #3, I am trying to say, should I not use bags, and just let all the hops float around when I add them?? Seems like it would be good. Then, after cooling, just filter them out at the end when transferring to the carboy??

It seems like I may have screwed up a bit on my batch. I pulled all the hops out before I started cooling. I still made beer, but probably not the best I could have. I was going for a LOT of hoppy aroma and flavor, especially since I was using the Citra hops. next time it will go better. Hops stay in until its all cooled, filter them out, and transfer to primary.

I appreciate the replys so far. Any other tips??

 

[GASoline71]

I've only used whole hops once. I hucked 'em right in the boil without bags.

Gary

 

[unionrdr]

I chucked whole leaf hops in the boil once without the bags. What a mess trying to strain them out going into the FV. Bags from then on.

 

[stpug]

My current method when using whole hops is:
-toss them in whole and stir around for all additions >=5 minutes
-crunch them up in their (plastic) bag and then toss them in, and stir around for all additions <5 minutes
-no bagging of hops at all in the brewpot (pellet or whole) - everything swims free
-cool my wort as normal after boil finishes
-pour brewpot through strainer into fermenter (through strainer sitting in a funnel in my case)
-if I can sense a great loss of wort in the hops then, using a well sanitized hand, I'll squeeze them in the strainer

That's the method I'm currently using and it works for me.

 

[jperry]

I believe that the whole hops still had oil glands "intact" because they were flavoring hops, which were not boiled long enough to extract much of the oils.

 

[dbsmith]

I have a big fryer basket that came with a pot I purchased from bayou classic, which I use in my boil kettle for the hops. I just put a paint straining back on the inside of the basket, and a couple of these folded metal sheets which were made for grilling vegetables underneath the basket in the pot to hold the basket up above the wort line. Then I can just add hops right into the basket where they have plenty of space. I would highly recommend the fry basket method! If you want to leave aroma hops in during cooling, I would just put them into your typical small nylon sack on the outside of the fry basket, so that you can remove the basket for the cool down. As for squeezing hops, I have read to abstain from it, and I have also seen people post about squeezing it hard and it not mattering, so I walk the line. I just very gently squeeze them.

 

[diS]

Thanks for the reply. As for #3, I am trying to say, should I not use bags, and just let all the hops float around when I add them?? Seems like it would be good. Then, after cooling, just filter them out at the end when transferring to the carboy??

It seems like I may have screwed up a bit on my batch. I pulled all the hops out before I started cooling. I still made beer, but probably not the best I could have. I was going for a LOT of hoppy aroma and flavor, especially since I was using the Citra hops. next time it will go better. Hops stay in until its all cooled, filter them out, and transfer to primary.

I appreciate the replys so far. Any other tips??

Most of us use some kind of gadget as hops filter.
Does spider, hopster screen or strainer sounds familiar? If not just google them, you'll be amazed how many options are there for hops filtering..

I've used bags so far but get bored, so I am in the middle of building hop spider from SS mesh, pretty obsessive.. but nothing more than other DIY parts of homebrewing

You will probably end with some kind of filter, it is up to you what to choose.. bags are cheap and works great for that cost, but from what I've read you'll get lower utilization than when chucking whole hops... but that is PITA too so you have to make compromise.

As for chilling, next time leave them in kettle and drop them out after you rack to primary.. that beer will still be great, it is just lesson for next time.
We learn something every day

 

[ajf]

I have a false bottom in my kettle, and use a CFC.
I use whole hops without a bag. They act as a wonderful filter when I drain via the kettle spigot, and trap almost all the hot break.
The do absorb quite a bit of wort, so I have to start the boil with a higher pre-boil volume, and the volume gets even higher if I'm brewing something like an IPA with a lot of hops. If you weigh your kettle after transferring to the fermenter, and then re weigh after cleaning it, you can get a good estimate of how much wort you will lose to hop absorption, trub, dead space etc. (Don't forget to subtract the dry weight of the hops from the weight difference.) I cannot remember how much they absorb, but it was substantial.

-a.

 

[SFGiantsFan925]

I have a false bottom in my kettle, and use a CFC.
I use whole hops without a bag. They act as a wonderful filter when I drain via the kettle spigot, and trap almost all the hot break.
The do absorb quite a bit of wort, so I have to start the boil with a higher pre-boil volume, and the volume gets even higher if I'm brewing something like an IPA with a lot of hops. If you weigh your kettle after transferring to the fermenter, and then re weigh after cleaning it, you can get a good estimate of how much wort you will lose to hop absorption, trub, dead space etc. (Don't forget to subtract the dry weight of the hops from the weight difference.) I cannot remember how much they absorb, but it was substantial.

-a.

Well, since I am using BIAB method, I dont have a false bottom. I think next time Ill just crush up the whole hop cones better to expose more of the lupulin to the wort. Also i am just going to throw them in and filter them out after cooling as I transfer to the carboy. i think this will work best.

My IPA I made has some really nice hop arome coming off it so far, and I am planning on using 3 oz of whole leaf hops to dry hop for about 10 days. I am planning on just throwing them into the primary after 2 weeks and letting them sit for 7-10 days. Should add a really nice aroma. I hope haha.

 

[bobbrewedit]

Look up weldless valves and bazooka tube strainer. Drill a hole in your kettle with a step drill and you're set. Some gunk will get in the fermenter, but not enough to matter.

 

[ajf]

Look up weldless valves and bazooka tube strainer. Drill a hole in your kettle with a step drill and you're set. Some gunk will get in the fermenter, but not enough to matter.

Yes, a Bazooka tube should work well. I find it makes racking to the fermenter much easier.

-a.

 

[Gartywood]

I have a dip tube and a big stainless tea ball that I cover it with. Works great for straining whole hops even with recirculating. With pellets I have to contain the hops in a hop spider if I want to recirc through the plate chiller with the pump.