Using whirlpool arm to recirculate wort during mashing

[h22lude]

Has anyone done this? I'm going to put a TC port at the top of my kettle and use http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Tri-Clover-1.5-Inch-Custom-Whirlpool-Arm.html for a whirlpool arm. Would this work with a bag to recirculate the mash or should the wort go on top of the grain?

I would think on top would be better but if I stirred the grains a few times that may help.

 

[RM-MN]

Has anyone definitively shown an improvement to the beer by recirculating the mash?

 

[h22lude]

Has anyone definitively shown an improvement to the beer by recirculating the mash?

I recirculate and heat with an element in my kettle and keep my mash temp within 1° of my set temp. I like knowing my temp is spot on and not fluctuating.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Hi Joe, Saw your pm. I'll reply this weekend. Moving my brewery to a new house today.

I return my wort to the top of the mash just under the surface. If you return it to the bottom you risk a small loop where the wort just returns to the valve and doesn't move through the mash. That defeats the point of the recirc in my opinion. I've been trying to reduce hsa in my mash so I've been stirring less and less lately. So I rely on my recirculation to keep my efficiency up.

I've been using the ssbrewtech manifold after years of using the blichmann auto sparge. It's a bit more gentle at the surface of the wort

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I don't like transferring mash particulate into the kettle. All you're doing by doing that is increasing the extraction of tannins and other undesirables.

 

[h22lude]

Hi Joe, Saw your pm. I'll reply this weekend. Moving my brewery to a new house today.

I return my wort to the top of the mash just under the surface. If you return it to the bottom you risk a small loop where the wort just returns to the valve and doesn't move through the mash. That defeats the point of the recirc in my opinion. I've been trying to reduce hsa in my mash so I've been stirring less and less lately. So I rely on my recirculation to keep my efficiency up.

I've been using the ssbrewtech manifold after years of using the blichmann auto sparge. It's a bit more gentle at the surface of the wort

Perfect, no rush. Good luck with the move.

Yeah that is what I was thinking too. I would have to stir to keep the grains/wort on top at the same temp as the wort on the bottom near the element.

I'll have to check out their manifold. I did find a TC fitting that had a male NPT end so I could attach my locline arm. I'm just not sure how I would get the bag around that so I can tie it to the kettle.

 

[h22lude]

I don't like transferring mash particulate into the kettle. All you're doing by doing that is increasing the extraction of tannins and other undesirables.

This is the biab sub. All the grain is in my kettle. I remove it with the bag.

 

[TexasWine]

Has anyone done this? I'm going to put a TC port at the top of my kettle and use http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Tri-Clover-1.5-Inch-Custom-Whirlpool-Arm.html for a whirlpool arm. Would this work with a bag to recirculate the mash or should the wort go on top of the grain?

I would think on top would be better but if I stirred the grains a few times that may help.

Back to the top is definitely better. I used my Blichmann Autosparge for the first time a couple weeks ago. It eroded a great big canyon in my grain bed and short circuited (user error). My extraction was way lower than it should have been, confirming for me that if you're going to circulate, it needs to be to the top.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

This is the biab sub. All the grain is in my kettle. I remove it with the bag.

Apologies, h22.

 

[h22lude]

Back to the top is definitely better. I used my Blichmann Autosparge for the first time a couple weeks ago. It eroded a great big canyon in my grain bed and short circuited (user error). My extraction was way lower than it should have been, confirming for me that if you're going to circulate, it needs to be to the top.

Good info, thanks. I was trying to get away from having to use the locline, remove it after mashing and put in the whirlpool arm but that may be the way I have to do it.

 

[h22lude]

Apologies, h22.

No worries, no need to apologise.

 

[Weezy]

with whirlpool, you run the risk of the recirculation wort just bypassing the malt. You want the recirculation to wash through the grain to avoid dead spots as much as possible. The idea is to maintain an exact temp as much as possible at the point of starch extraction and conversion.

I use a silicone hose with a perforated piece of ss tube in the end, jammed into the malt bed in the bag, so that the recirculated wort squirts out sideways into the grain bed in many directions.

Does it show improvement over non recirculation? If you have trouble maintaining mash temps, you will see an improvement. Also, with high gravity beers, continuously washing the grain will keep the wort density at the grains down to help conversion.

Tannins are extracted if temps and pH get out of the appropriate range. Recirculation is NOT going to extract tannins.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Just to be clear (and I know I'm in the wrong world here - h22lude), I wasn't talking about recirc, but transferring mash particulate into the kettle - which will definitely extract tannins. Sort of like boiling tea leaves for a period.

Anyway - back you fellas!

 

[h22lude]

with whirlpool, you run the risk of the recirculation wort just bypassing the malt. You want the recirculation to wash through the grain to avoid dead spots as much as possible. The idea is to maintain an exact temp as much as possible at the point of starch extraction and conversion.

Tannins are extracted if temps and pH get out of the appropriate range. Recirculation is NOT going to extract tannins.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking too. I was going to fix that by stirring but I'd probably have to stir often which I don't want to do. I think I just need to use the locline and figure out how to get the bag around the port.

I think he meant if grains are in the boil, but I agree it is still a function of both temp and pH.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking too. I was going to fix that by stirring but I'd probably have to stir often which I don't want to do. I think I just need to use the locline and figure out how to get the bag around the port.

I think he meant if grains are in the boil, but I agree it is still a function of both temp and pH.

How about connecting through the lid?

 

[h22lude]

Just to be clear (and I know I'm in the wrong world here - h22lude), I wasn't talking about recirc, but transferring mash particulate into the kettle - which will definitely extract tannins. Sort of like boiling tea leaves for a period.

Anyway - back you fellas!

You would need to transfer a lot for anything to happen and even then pH is a factor.

 

[h22lude]

How about connecting through the lid?

That's what I do now and it works. I just hate when I need to remove the lid, wort spills out. Just messy.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

You would need to transfer a lot for anything to happen and even then pH is a factor.

Well, if they're husks, then you will get tannins. But the impact is, I'm sure, non-existent, because any astringency is probably way below the sensory threshold unless it's a lot of material.

I'll bow out, h22. Again I spaced and thought this was another subject. Good luck, man.

 

[RM-MN]

I recirculate and heat with an element in my kettle and keep my mash temp within 1° of my set temp. I like knowing my temp is spot on and not fluctuating.

The temperature of the mash is only important while conversion is going on. How long does it take for your starches to convert? Will your mash have lost significant heat in that amount of time? Be aware that you need a coarser crush when you recirculate as fine particles will clog the pores of the bag and this coarser crush will take longer to convert and may cause a lower efficiency.

 

[h22lude]

The temperature of the mash is only important while conversion is going on. How long does it take for your starches to convert? Will your mash have lost significant heat in that amount of time? Be aware that you need a coarser crush when you recirculate as fine particles will clog the pores of the bag and this coarser crush will take longer to convert and may cause a lower efficiency.

I crush my grain finer than I did when I was using a cooler mash tun and I've never had problems with a clogged bag. I think most BIABers mill fine.

I'm not sure how long it takes for conversion and I'm not sure about heat loss.

Heating and recirculation is also good for step mashing.

 

[Culln5]

I use a locline in conjunction with my RIMS tube and then swap it out for a whirlpool arm.

View attachment 1505500248721.jpg

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[h22lude]

I use a locline in conjunction with my RIMS tube and then swap it out for a whirlpool arm.

Exactly what I wanted to see, thanks. This is probably what I'll be doing. I need to get some binder clips from work...I mean, go buy a box

I'm going to us this and a camlock to attach the locline http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Tri-Clover-Pipe-Connect-1.5-Inch-x-1.5-Inch.html

And this whirlpool arm http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Tri-Clover-1.5-Inch-Custom-Whirlpool-Arm.html

 

[Culln5]

Here's the fitting.

View attachment 1505512287267.jpg

 

[bdogg171]

I use a locline in conjunction with my RIMS tube and then swap it out for a whirlpool arm.

This is exactly what I was thinking except with the locline pushed down through the center.
Thoughts?