Using Universal Ingredient References

[McKnuckle]

Homebrewers most often use a recipe convention where raw measurements in pounds, ounces, etc. are provided. This requires us to know the batch size. It is meaningless to tell someone, for example, that they can “Use up to 1 lb” of chocolate malt in a recipe. Would 1 lb of chocolate malt be okay in a one gallon batch? I seriously doubt it. But we see that kind of comment all the time.

And while the ubiquitous 5 gallon batch is assumed as a de facto standard in home brewing, it is still not enough detail to get things right all the time. Five gallons in the fermenter? Final packaged size? What efficiency are you using? And so on. So why can’t we just use a universal recipe language? It’s easy!

Fermentables can be broken down by percentages. “Use up to 10% chocolate malt” is a universal way to convey how much of something to use. We tell our fellow homebrewers what our target OG is, and that lets people figure out the total grist weight for themselves based on their systems:

80% Maris Otter
10% Crystal 60 UK
5% Biscuit
5% Torrified wheat
OG 1.054, SRM 7

Hops are a bit trickier because alpha acids vary so much. But since everyone has software these days, it’s fairly easy to give hop additions in terms of IBU values and their percentages of the recipe’s total. Brewers can experiment by adding hops until the IBU and percentage values work out:

Progress @ 75 min to 24 IBU (77.1%)
Progress @ 10 min to 7.1 IBU (22.9%)
31.1 IBU

Water is best conveyed by using ppm to cite target mineral concentrations relative to the total volume of brewing liquor. Brewers can then use software to formulate their brewing liquor based on their water source. A mash pH target helps, too. This is far better than “add a teaspoon of gypsum and you should be good.”

Ca 56 ppm
Mg 0 ppm
Na 16 ppm
Cl 76 ppm
SO4 29 ppm
Est. mash pH = 5.41

Is there any love for this idea or am I just grumpy? It's okay if the answer is "yes" to both.

 

[Queequeg]

Let chaos be chaos

 

[u81doughboy]

It's a noble idea and well thought out. In principal I agree with you, but from a practical perspective you might as well play the lottery--better odds on that.

 

[BigEd]

I agree that using percentages is the best way to list a brew's grist bill. It's common with professionals. However, most homebrewers do not think that way nor have they ever been taught to. So until the culture changes it's like trying to get the average American to use the Metric system.

 

[doug293cz]

I agree with the idea, but unfortunately reality is as BigEd and u81doughboy have pointed out. If you want to play Don Quixote for a while, go for it, and good luck.

For those who understand recipe building, it's not that hard to calculate the percentages in the grain bill of a recipe. The problem comes if the author doesn't provide an IBU total, or the AA% of the hops used.

Brew on

 

[Weezy]

...and aroma & dry hops should be given in grams/gallon.

 

[McKnuckle]

Yeah, I'm not thinking the home brewing world will change all of a sudden. But if even a few people consider the concept and maybe begin wrapping their minds around it, then I have done something useful! I find the grain bill percentages to be an especially obvious approach. It's so much simpler to communicate how to make something, and indeed the pros all describe things that way (they do not suffer from 5 gallon centrism!).

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

For hops, "Alpha Acid Units" are apparently a thing?

For grain, my scale doesn't read in percentages. Neither does LHBS. ;(

 

[doug293cz]

For hops, "Alpha Acid Units" are apparently a thing?

For grain, my scale doesn't read in percentages. Neither does LHBS. ;(

Smells like a troll, but I'll give you a straight answer.

Yeah, alpha acid units are a thing. Look at any package of hops... it should have the alpha acid % printed on it somewhere.

Figure out what you want for a total grain bill weight, and then multiply by the percentage to figure out grain weight, for each grain. Works for any batch size, and works the same in imperial and metric.

Brew on

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

Huh, apparently these don't take batch size into account, which makes them kind of useless. I did not realize that. >.>

Facially facetious, yes, but there's a deeper point: the reason most people quote recipes in "pounds" or "ounces" is because they compose them in pounds or ounces rather than trying to measure "0.8% of 11 lb" and ending up with a decimal that doesn't align very well at all with the granularity of their measuring scale. Back-translating to percentages is a learned habit and one whose value isn't intuitively obvious when one is first approaching the matter.

 

[McKnuckle]

The Alpha Acid Units (AAU) require a specific weight of hops to be calculated, which in turn is dependent on the size of your batch, so that's not a useful measurement in communicating a universal spec: [edit: I see you provided a link.]

AAU = oz x AA% (e.g. 7.5 AAU = 1.5 oz of Fuggle @ 5% AA)

For actually brewing a recipe, of course one needs actual weights in lbs, oz, g, gal, L, etc. to get going. But everyone's system is different in a multitude of ways. This is about communicating one's recipe to others in a system-agnostic manner.

 

[Weezy]

This is the best way to share recipes, since it is generic to system. I used to advocate for this as well, but ran into a problem.
If you use % of grains all the time, you start to *think* in terms of percentages, which can lead to problems in recipe development. A good example is I like 4% chocolate in my 1.060 american brown ale. If I think 4% chocolate gives me the flavor I want and I go and write a recipe for a 1.040 session brown and still use 4% chocolate, I'm not going to get the same flavor since 4% in a 1.040 beer is less weight. I was better off remember 1/4# chocolate gave the flavor I wanted.

 

[doug293cz]

The Alpha Acid Units (AAU) require a specific weight of hops to be calculated, which in turn is dependent on the size of your batch, so that's not a useful measurement in communicating a universal spec: [edit: I see you provided a link.]

AAU = oz x AA% (e.g. 7.5 AAU = 1.5 oz of Fuggle @ 5% AA)

For actually brewing a recipe, of course one needs actual weights in lbs, oz, g, gal, L, etc. to get going. But everyone's system is different in a multitude of ways. This is about communicating one's recipe to others in a system-agnostic manner.

What's needed for recipe communication is AAU/gal @ time, or IBU for the add.

Brew on

 

[McKnuckle]

AAU/gal @ time

Very useful suggestion. I will play around with that a bit in my recipes. I like how it doesn't require you to calculate IBU, which is more complicated and usually requires software.

Cheers

 

[SlitheryDee]

I like percentages for malts, and I do see it from time to time. I brewed a clone of the stone pale ale based on their recipe which simply listed the percentages of all the malts, lbs per barrel of hops along with AA percentages, and the target OG. I found it pretty easy to scale the recipe when it was listed in that way. I made 6 gallons of it which should be just about finished bottle conditioning now. I wish I had some of the original beer to compare it to, but based on the pictures I see the color is spot on at least. It actually looks closer to an amber than a pale ale to me.

I'm also ok with the conventional way of writing recipes though. As long as I know the batch size, OG, and IBUs for it's really no extra trouble to adapt any recipe to my equipment and process.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I find %s on grain bill a bit tedious to work with, especially if there's a fair number of items. You start adding things, get the percentages correct, but it's too high for the OG. So you start tweaking, get the OG right, but the percentages aren't in alignment. It's a lot of variables that have to be just right to achieve the proper final answer (OG).

For hops, the whole IBU reference really goes out the window for whirlpool and dry hop additions. How do we specify those?

 

[McKnuckle]

You start adding things, get the percentages correct, but it's too high for the OG. So you start tweaking, get the OG right, but the percentages aren't in alignment.

To match OG, all you have to do is adjust the total grist weight up or down, and leave the percentages the same. Not being able to do so may be a limitation of the popular software (like BS and BF)... which is why I don't use those tools. I created my own spreadsheet to meet my particular needs.

 

[McKnuckle]

For hops, the whole IBU reference really goes out the window for whirlpool and dry hop additions. How do we specify those?

By weight. Grams/liter or oz/gallon (or any combo of those that you prefer). Pro brewers will specify lbs/bbl, same approach.

 

[Smellyglove]

I'm using % for malt, and my OG.

For hops I use g/l, and add "add bittering hops to target IBU" and I give the IBU. That way you don't lose flavor from mid-later hops due to those might be higher AA than your recipe, you just add less bittering hops.

 

[Smellyglove]

I find %s on grain bill a bit tedious to work with, especially if there's a fair number of items. You start adding things, get the percentages correct, but it's too high for the OG. So you start tweaking, get the OG right, but the percentages aren't in alignment. It's a lot of variables that have to be just right to achieve the proper final answer (OG).

For hops, the whole IBU reference really goes out the window for whirlpool and dry hop additions. How do we specify those?

Just add them to a software like BS as it is in the recipe. volume and everything. Click the OG-scale-arrow, and bump it up to your the OG you want given your mash efficiency. It's easy as hell and is the way to go.

 

[beermanpete]

Good idea. However, as has been pointed out, the people who can work from percentages to calculate the grain bill likely already do, or at least can easily scale a recipe written in the common mass-based format.

Using Alpha Acid Units for hops makes more sense than IBU. This provides a reliable input to the process whereas IBU is an output that seems to be poorly understood and is very system dependent.

Considering the apparent widespread reliance on software-based calculators to design and scale recipes it seems that the software designers would need to change their products to support this method for to to get a foothold.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Just add them to a software like BS as it is in the recipe. volume and everything. Click the OG-scale-arrow, and bump it up to your the OG you want given your mash efficiency. It's easy as hell and is the way to go.

So you with BS you can add grains as percentages? If I'm not mistaken, the OP is advocating specifying only percentages...no actual weights or volumes.

 

[mongoose33]

Yeah, I'm not thinking the home brewing world will change all of a sudden. But if even a few people consider the concept and maybe begin wrapping their minds around it, then I have done something useful! I find the grain bill percentages to be an especially obvious approach. It's so much simpler to communicate how to make something, and indeed the pros all describe things that way (they do not suffer from 5 gallon centrism!).

In principle I think there's a little merit in this. But, there's one big piece missing, and that's the actual size of the grain bill.

OK, so the recipe specifies 80 percent Maris Otter. That's nice. How big is the overall grain bill? 8 pounds? 10 pounds? 12 pounds? Without knowing the amount, the percentage isn't helpful.

I actually think the 5-gallon "standard" is a good one. Want to do 10 gallons? Double the recipe. One gallon? Divide by 5.

And I don't think there's all that much confusion as to what a 5-gallon batch means. It's what you have at the end, enough to fill a 5-gallon keg or bottle 50 bottles.

 

[SlitheryDee]

In principle I think there's a little merit in this. But, there's one big piece missing, and that's the actual size of the grain bill.



OK, so the recipe specifies 80 percent Maris Otter. That's nice. How big is the overall grain bill? 8 pounds? 10 pounds? 12 pounds? Without knowing the amount, the percentage isn't helpful.



I actually think the 5-gallon "standard" is a good one. Want to do 10 gallons? Double the recipe. One gallon? Divide by 5.



And I don't think there's all that much confusion as to what a 5-gallon batch means. It's what you have at the end, enough to fill a 5-gallon keg or bottle 50 bottles.

The grain bill would be specific to your equipment and process I suppose. It would be however much you need to achieve the OG specified by the recipe at the batch size you want to brew.

In theory it works just fine I think. In practice I really don't find it any more difficult to convert a 5 gallon recipe to whatever batch size I want, so I guess I don't care either way.

 

[McKnuckle]

I'm also fully capable of doing either. For the usual 5 gallon pounds-focused recipes, I end up calculating people's percentages and plugging them into my tried-and-true spreadsheet. I then adjust the grain bill size to hit the target OG from the recipe. My sheet has a dedicated master level field for that value.

As @SlitheryDee replied above, YOU figure out your own grain bill size. That's the opposite of someone you don't know who has a different system TELLING you their grain bill size. Oh well; it doesn't work for me, at least. I brew to a target of 2.75 or 3.25 gallon fermenter volume.

 

[Weezy]

I do 3 gallon batches mostly. If I quoted you a recipe, it'd be meaningless to a 5 gallon batch guy or a 15 gallon batch guy. That's where percentages work. You can plug the percentages into any reputable software and ratchet it up to theIR I give you and you're good. If you use vermouth, it'll already adjust for your equipment.

I didn't even mention efficiency. What is your system efficiency? Maybe I brew at 85% efficiency. Do you really want me to give you grain weights if you brew at 70% efficiency?

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

Very useful suggestion. I will play around with that a bit in my recipes. I like how it doesn't require you to calculate IBU, which is more complicated and usually requires software.

Cheers

I suggest dimensions of AGM (AAU/gal*min). Can't be worse than interpreting mBTUh.

 

[Weezy]

I suggest dimensions of AGM (AAU/gal*min). Can't be worse than interpreting mBTUh.

That's too much like math. Unfun. IBU @ time is simpler:
Columbus - 30 IBUs@60 min

 

[Smellyglove]

So you with BS you can add grains as percentages? If I'm not mistaken, the OP is advocating specifying only percentages...no actual weights or volumes.

You can't directly add them as percentages into BS. You have to add them by weight.

But, if you see a grist containing f.ex 4 malt-types. You can just add them with taken out of the blue amounts.. Like fourty pounds of carafa 3, and two pounds of pale etc.. You just need to get the malts into the recipe, weight at this point doesn't matter. Then you can EDIT them as percentages, and just click on the arrow and enter a target OG, which will add or subtract the total amount of malt, so the percentage stays equal between the malts, to hit your desired OG.

For instance. If you want a beer to be 95% pale, and 5% Crystal 120. You can add a bogus amount of pale, and crystal, just to get them into the recipe builder. Then click on edit percentages, and choose that pale should be 95%, and the 120 5%. Then scale that grist, containing the correct percentages up or down to meet your target OG.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

You can't directly add them as percentages into BS. You have to add them by weight.

But, if you see a grist containing f.ex 4 malt-types. You can just add them with taken out of the blue amounts.. Like fourty pounds of carafa 3, and two pounds of pale etc.. You just need to get the malts into the recipe, weight at this point doesn't matter. Then you can EDIT them as percentages, and just click on the arrow and enter a target OG, which will add or subtract the total amount of malt, so the percentage stays equal between the malts, to hit your desired OG.

For instance. If you want a beer to be 95% pale, and 5% Crystal 120. You can add a bogus amount of pale, and crystal, just to get them into the recipe builder. Then click on edit percentages, and choose that pale should be 95%, and the 120 5%. Then scale that grist, containing the correct percentages up or down to meet your target OG.

That's a nice interface.