using dried cherries

[moti_mo]

So, I've decided that my next 10 gallon batch will be split between a pilsner and a Belgian. I'd like to ferment the Belgian over some dried cherries to give a nice subtle cherry flavor - not over the top, but definitely in there.

I've always been a fan of Three Philosophers, and I'd like to try a crack at a nice ~8% Belgian with a touch of cherry flavor. Not a clone of 3P, I don't care if its close to 3P 'cause that's not what I'm going for, but a nice sipper in the spirit of 3P.

So does anyone have experience fermenting on dried cherries? Or other dried fruits - raisins, etc.? I think my mind is made up on the fresh/dried/concentrate fruit question, so I'm going with the dried cherries. And I'm thinking about starting with 2 oz. in the secondary and add fruit as I go along if it needs it. I don't want to add too much to start, 'cause you can't take it back. Maybe 2 oz. is low-balling to start, maybe 4 oz. is an OK start? - but the grain bill is dead simple - pilsner malt with a touch of acidulated, so not a lot of flavors to mask any not-so-subtle flavors from over-addition of fruit.

For sanitizing/pasteurizing: 1) boil some water and cover the cherries for 15 minutes; 2) soak the cherries in a small amount of vodka; 3) both; 4) neither, do something else...

Thanks for sharing any experience/tips

 

[godofcheese]

I think that I would chop them up a bit and soak them in vodka. I have never used dried fruit before but there are several recipes that call for raisins. The same method should work.

 

[maskednegator]

I added 8 oz to my 1.085 saison. Taste was extremely subtle at last tasting (1.020).

 

[moti_mo]

I added 8 oz to my 1.085 saison. Taste was extremely subtle at last tasting (1.020).

Thanks for the info. How did you prep them, and when did you add them?

 

[Retroviridae]

Watch out - some dried cherries I've bought were very lightly coated with some tasteless vegetable oil to keep them from clumping together. If you get oily cherries, they might not rehydrate/soak very well and could reduce head retention.

I would try simultaneously rehydrating and pasteurizing them in nearly boiling water. You don't need to worry about pasteurization altering the flavor as with fresh fruit, since all the volatile flavor/aroma compounds have already been driven off by the high-temperature drying.

 

[maskednegator]

Thanks for the info. How did you prep them, and when did you add them?

I brought them barely to a boil with an equivalent amount of dates, tossed them in the food processor with some Bushmills and added to primary druring week 3. Dates were a total bust. Absolutely no flavor contribution that my pallate can detect.

 

[moti_mo]

Thanks for the tips, everyone. Its good to know that even at 8 oz., the flavor is fairly subtle. I think I'll probably start with 4 oz., let it sit on that for a couple of weeks, sample and add another 4 oz. depending on taste.

And thanks for the tip on the oil, I don't think I would have looked for that. Although my basic plan was to go to Whole Foods and get the absolute least processed dried cherries I can get, hoping to avoid any additives like extra sweeteners (and apparently vegetable oil).

 

[moti_mo]

An update on this beer. I brewed it ~3.5 weeks ago, a Belgian strong with 1 lb. D2 dark candy syrup added in primary after ~1 week of fermentation and then 1 lb. light candy syrup after another few days. After 3 weeks, it was down to ~1.008, nice and dry, so I racked to secondary on top of 1 lb. of dried tart cherries (no added sugar, no added oils) and 1 oz. of medium French oak cubes. Its at ~7.5% a.b.v. now.

This went a little bit against my first instinct of starting out low, but I figured I would go for something with a little-more-than-subtle cherry flavor, but hopefully still not overpowering. To my surprise, after only 3 days on the cherries, I pulled off a sample with a wine thief and you can already taste the cherries. Significant cherry taste, but not overpowering at all and really good already. Hopefully the cherry flavor doesn't come bursting through over the top after more time, b/c I want to leave the beer on the oak for ~1 month to get some of those flavors coming through.

My question for anyone who may know - any ideas or sources as to how much gravity I'll get from 1 lb. of dried cherries?? I've googled and searched the forum, and haven't come up with much...

 

[pheboglobi]

Looking for an update... how did the brew with the dried cherries come out? I was curious if the flavor improved and how it developed, since I was looking to add some dried cherries to an upcoming batch. Was 1 lb. enough or too much?

 

[Randar]

I have been planning a raisin d'etre clone for a while now and since I can't get green raisins like DFH does, I was planning to combine home grown/pick/dried cherries and golden raisins and to pre-hydrate like done in the Zymurgy clone recipe. When I taste the original raisin d'etre I get the cherry flavor with the malt and black currant flavor. I think this is probably my best bet to reproduce but I won't know for several weeks. Planning to brew it this weekend, so we'll see!

Also curious to read the results from this batch.

 

[moti_mo]

Thanks for the continued interest. I really like this beer. The only problem with it is a slight off-flavor similar to chlorophenol, which I think actually came from washed yeast that was a little too old (I've experienced this off flavor ONLY when using washed yeast that has been in the fridge for too long - I've now stopped this process - and my water is not high in chlorine).

Anyway, I am really happy with the flavor and its developed very well. Its a great after-dinner beer to sip on - high gravity, tart from the cherries, and actually very dry. The one pound gives a great flavor that matches really well with the Belgian yeast (Ardennes). I'm sure you could also start with a half pound to be safe if you wanted less cherry flavor. It was also fairly well in the competition into which I entered it (besides the comments on slight chlorophenol odor/flavor.

Let me know if I can be of any more help.

 

[ErieShores]

16 ounces of dried cherries, huh? OK, on a scale of 1-10 how strong was the cherry flavor with that amount? 5 gallon batch I assume as well, right?

 

[chask31]

I used a half pound of dried cherries in the brew I am currently drinking...good stuff.

Moti_mo, you said you get off flavors from using washed yeast in the fridge for too long? How long has been too long for you?

 

[pheboglobi]

Cool, thanks moti_mo!

 

[moti_mo]

16 ounces of dried cherries, huh? OK, on a scale of 1-10 how strong was the cherry flavor with that amount? 5 gallon batch I assume as well, right?

Hmmm, I guess I would say a 6 or so. And yes, that's for a 5 gallon batch. I think the dryness helps out a lot from it being too over the top.

 

[moti_mo]

I used a half pound of dried cherries in the brew I am currently drinking...good stuff.

Moti_mo, you said you get off flavors from using washed yeast in the fridge for too long? How long has been too long for you?

I'll have to look back at the dates, but I think I'm finding that the range of 4 - 6 months is where I need to refrain from using the washed yeast for a new brew. Don't hold me to that, though, I don't have a ton of data points (3 batches with the same off flavor, all with washed yeast over 4 months old) and I'm sure there are plenty of people on here who have more experience with washed yeast stability.

 

[ErieShores]

Hmmm, I guess I would say a 6 or so. And yes, that's for a 5 gallon batch. I think the dryness helps out a lot from it being too over the top.

Thanks, I'm trying this.
*edit: Do you happen to remember the brand of dried cherries you used?