Using a generator

[festbier]

I am currently building an electric brewery and plan on using a 4500w 30a element. I am also waiting on my electrician to have time to get out here and run a 240v plug...who knows when that will happen (and I am down to 5 gallons of HB). I need to figure something out, and got to thinking...does anyone use a generator to power their E-Brewery? There are a few reasons this idea might be worth looking further into.

1. Obviously, loss of power during a storm will have no effect on brew day.
2. It's a good idea to have a generator anyway.
3. The house I am living in now is not going to be my last house, so I would need to have a 240v line ran at the next place as well, and would have to pay for the same thing twice. At least paying for a generator, I would be able to use it in other applications, even if I chose to have a line ran at my next house.

Thoughts?

 

[IslandLizard]

1. Generators are not very efficient.
2. Those that supply 240V / 30A are less common, more expensive.
3. Can you stand the perpetual noise?
4. Something I can't think of right now...

 

[festbier]

Yeah, I know they're noisy...I wouldn't have it in the garage with me. It would be outside with a line running into the garage. Even then, I would build an enclosure around it.

I'm not really worried about efficiency since it would not be used on a daily basis. Plus, if you need power after a bad storm, who cares about efficiency?

 

[golfindia]

I've never brewed with my generator (8750w peak/7000w running coleman powermate,13hp OHV engine) but I ran a water simulation on it for grins during prep for last hurricane season. Could it be done? Yes. I have a 5500w boil element and a 1650w RIMS element. With both running (not usually the case) it loaded down the generator substantially. You won't be able to do it with a small generator.....

I put the generator on the side of the house, so the noise isn't a problem. I may never brew this way, but it's nice to have a way to quickly heat up 20g of water during a zombie apocalypse.

 

[kristiismean]

I know somethings about generators. 240 V 30 Amp is quite common now and easy to find. As cheap as $249 from home depot for a 3500/4000 watt generator (sportsman) that is propane or gasoline. But depending on what wattage you need, the price steps up quickly.

Harbor freights Predator's are getting to be a better buy with every improvement they make, the 7000/8750 watt model is $600 + wheel kit.

Don't cover it up, make sure there is plenty of air flow around it, you want it running as cool as possible. If you need quiet, look at honda's.

 

[festbier]

I know somethings about generators. 240 V 30 Amp is quite common now and easy to find. As cheap as $249 from home depot for a 3500/4000 watt generator (sportsman) that is propane or gasoline. But depending on what wattage you need, the price steps up quickly.

Harbor freights Predator's are getting to be a better buy with every improvement they make, the 7000/8750 watt model is $600 + wheel kit.

Don't cover it up, make sure there is plenty of air flow around it, you want it running as cool as possible. If you need quiet, look at honda's.

Good to know...thanks for the info.

 

[milldoggy]

A friend ran his Kal clone on one, 5500 watt element and pumps on a 7500 watt, either fine

 

[festbier]

That brings up another question. If i plan on getting a 4500w element and running it and a pump, how much more wattage should I need to efficiently run both? In other words, if I had a 5000w generator, and was powering 5000w, would it require the generator to run at 100% power?

 

[golfindia]

The majority of what you are paying for quality-wise in a generator is the engine. Harbor freight's predator engines are made in China. Not that they is anything particularly bad about them, but there is a huge difference between predator and something like a honda or generac. Of course the latter cost twice as much.

 

[augiedoggy]

The majority of what you are paying for quality-wise in a generator is the engine. Harbor freight's predator engines are made in China. Not that they is anything particularly bad about them, but there is a huge difference between predator and something like a honda or generac. Of course the latter cost twice as much.

This is true..(although the quiet honda models were 3 times more than the quiet clones last I looked before going solar on my camper instead). That being said I have a predator my father bought years ago and it never fails me when the lights go out...

I myself wouldn't brew with a generator on a regular basis though.. too many energy conversions and things to break and go wrong.. plus is really is a step backwards... Now you have fuel, oil..and wear and tear on the generator. Might as well stick with propane.
I would love to go solar but the cost for the panels and batteries needed for 30a @ 240 is pretty crazy..

I dont have a basement so I just located my electric brewery in a spare bedroom...

I read that about 90% of the worlds forged crankshafts for all engines are made in china now (even for such cars as bmws) something to do with the process of making and treating the grade of steel used as well as a good portion of other specialty metal components like connecting rods and such.. Trump could reverse the environmental and safety to rules and try to bring it all back including asbestos but then we are right back to all the problems that caused us to get rid of it in the first place... and theres still the wage problem..

 

[MrShake]

I've run my rig on a predator generator a couple of times for things like Big Brew Day or club events. It worked just fine! I will say my predator didn't last and finally started blowing oil out the exhaust. I haven't replaced it because we got a whole-house standby generator. But I do I want to get another portable for club events.

 

[augiedoggy]

I've run my rig on a predator generator a couple of times for things like Big Brew Day or club events. It worked just fine! I will say my predator didn't last and finally started blowing oil out the exhaust. I haven't replaced it because we got a whole-house standby generator. But I do I want to get another portable for club events.

curious what size generator you used? Most are rated at peak and running them with a high rms load will cause them to wear out a lot quicker.. (not that im implying it didnt fail because of how cheaply it was made) one large enough to reliably and repeatably brew with would be like $1500 or more+ maintenance and fuel costs... My guess is running electric to the garage would be a lot cheaper with a reasonable contractor..

 

[Owly055]

Modern inexpensive generators are garbage without exception. That is MOST consumer generators. If you want a GOOD generator don't go to Home Depot or Harbor Freight. It won't be light weight or on wheels or portable. The Hondas are pretty good, but in general, a generator that runs 3600 RPM is NOT a good generator designed to last. The quality units all run at 1800. The very best generators I've owned have all been old ones, with water cooled engines. Water cooled Kohler, Herculese, Continental engines, or the air cooled 2 and 4 cylinder Onan engines. They produce reliable power and last forever. These kinds of generators can often be purchased cheaply used. Most people want the cheap garbage your can manhandle with two guys, the kind with the plastic tank on top. The really good generators cannot be hand started except for a few with hand cranks under the radiator, and the best don't even have an electric starter. The starter is built right into the generator windings. You flip a switch and it starts turning over and starts....

That said, it's a bit insane to build an electric brewery if you don't have electricity to run it??????????? It always amazes me how complicated people make brewing..... I've done it myself, but always reverted to simple. Simple is less work, less clean up, and in my opinion produces just as good beer...... I've abandoned all my "improvements".

H.W.

 

[festbier]

I decided to just use my dryer plug. Its actually pretty accessible. Plus, it will keep me indoors.

I definitely agree with you Owly on how we can complicate things, and usually for no benefit.

 

[runbad]

Dryer plugs are the way to go... I had to use my oven's due to me having a gas dryer. But this counting.

And I absolutely agree with Owly there have been zero and I mean zero improvements on portable generators since the 70s.... Oh wait. I like my 80 db push button start generator that will run forever with one tank of gas. That I can get parts for. And endless other improvements because that's what generator companys do.

 

[BrunDog]

Be careful running sensitive electronics off generators. Good power supplies will clean up much of a signal but line voltage is hella cleaner than portable generator output, which may not even be a sine wave. Transient changes could wreak havoc.

 

[augiedoggy]

Be careful running sensitive electronics off generators. Good power supplies will clean up much of a signal but line voltage is hella cleaner than portable generator output, which may not even be a sine wave. Transient changes could wreak havoc.

Good point! I have had issues running certain things off of generators and power converters myself when converting my popup to solar and learned that the "AC" power from a lot of power inverters is not at all the same AC wave that you would find from the power company. I ended up replacing everything with 12v counterparts... theres an idea, a 12v DC electric brewery... I know they make 12v pumps, pids and heating elements...

 

[BrunDog]

12V brewery would work. Just gotta upgrade everything to handle 500 amps!

 

[augiedoggy]

Dryer plugs are the way to go... I had to use my oven's due to me having a gas dryer. But this counting.

And I absolutely agree with Owly there have been zero and I mean zero improvements on portable generators since the 70s.... Oh wait. I like my 80 db push button start generator that will run forever with one tank of gas. That I can get parts for. And endless other improvements because that's what generator companys do.

But some guys love lugging around a 300+lb cold war looking monstrosity... and I bet the fellow campers love them at RV parks! all that free background noise to drown out the kids and nature...
I'm just kidding of course because I do see the point that owly was making but I really think that the generators some before the 70's were not really designed for the "consumer" market to begin with so.... People that use generators a lot will buy more of them if they arent built to last a really long time... Pretty much all manufacturers are thinking this way now... thats why your average led TV sold today only last 3000-4000 hrs which is about as long as an incandescent light bulb... Now that they no longer have the mercury in them we can fill our landfills with them without guilt I guess... And people are conditioned to want "new " stuff just because... so lets make everything cheaper so we can just throw it away and buy new every few years... You would be amazed at how many flat screen tvs I picked up from the dump after this Christmas to repair only to find they had absolutely nothing wrong with them, likely replaced by "smart tvs" by dumb people... God forbid they donate them to less fortunate people using the old CRT sets...

 

[MrShake]

It was the harbor freight 8750 watt peek, It think its like 7000 constant. More than enough to run a single 5500 watt element and the small load from the control panel.

And no doubt it would be cheaper and better in the long run to run power (its what I have). But Gennys are nice for mobile brewing at a club even or what have you

curious what size generator you used? Most are rated at peak and running them with a high rms load will cause them to wear out a lot quicker.. (not that im implying it didnt fail because of how cheaply it was made) one large enough to reliably and repeatably brew with would be like $1500 or more+ maintenance and fuel costs... My guess is running electric to the garage would be a lot cheaper with a reasonable contractor..

 

[ajdelange]

I have done an entire brew day on a generator simply because the power went out for the day and I had no choice. Generator power isn't cheap. It costs me over a hundred dollars in gas when there is an outage that lasts the weekend (my average load for the house and brewery (not brewing) is 34 amps and is under 51 amps 90% of the time). Power from the utility is much cheaper but if the power is out and you want to brew you really don't have an alternative.

 

[lschiavo]

I have done an entire brew day on a generator simply because the power went out for the day and I had no choice. Generator power isn't cheap. It costs me over a hundred dollars in gas when there is an outage that lasts the weekend (my average load for the house and brewery (not brewing) is 34 amps and is under 51 amps 90% of the time). Power from the utility is much cheaper but if the power is out and you want to brew you really don't have a choice.

34A average? At a good rate, that's like $600/month. Last I checked, my average was around 4A.

 

[ajdelange]

Keep in mind that's phase-Amperes i.e. the sum of the currents drawn by each phase so our demand is 34*120*24*30.5/1000 = 2986.56 kwhr/mo (based on the 21 days I measured load). Actual loads for the last 3 mos (as billed) were 2640, 2080 and 2480 kWhr and the bills $200 - 250 which says the average marginal charge is $0.10 kW/hr. Pretty good. I think I pay more in Canada where the power is hydroelectric but the the government took over Quebec Hydro so....

 

[Dcpcooks]

Com ed sends me a note every month letting me know I use 154% more energy than my neighbors with the same size Home. I run three commercial 23 cubic fridges in my brew space plus a glycol heater/chiller for one conical. We are looking at building a new home and I'd love to install the new solar roof system with the battery packs from tesla and solar city with a back up whole house natural gas generator. The cost is still prohibitively expensive but it would be awesome to get off the grid.

 

[ajdelange]

Why? Can you beat $0.10 /kwH with any kind of realistic amortization on the capital equipment you are considering. 2/3 - 3/4 (depending on outdoor temp) of my heat is going to be 'free' from the ground (I'm putting in a geothermal system) but I don't fancy myself for a minute that I'll recover the capital investment in my lifetime (even were I a lot younger than I am).

 

[Dcpcooks]

Nope it's a 10 year break even at best in my area. While it is a bad idea from an Econ standpoint I can see pricing coming down. I'll have to look into the geothermal. That could be a nice option in Chicago as we're either hot or cold here.

 

[lschiavo]

Why? Can you beat $0.10 /kwH with any kind of realistic amortization on the capital equipment you are considering. 2/3 - 3/4 (depending on outdoor temp) of my heat is going to be 'free' from the ground (I'm putting in a geothermal system) but I don't fancy myself for a minute that I'll recover the capital investment in my lifetime (even were I a lot younger than I am).

Would you mind sharing some rough numbers on the cost of your geothermal system?

I'm hoping to build in a few years and have always wanted to go this route. Our property is on a river on a huge sand deposit. I had the well installed a few years back. They told me that well is good for 60g/min. I'm hoping it can supply the geothermal system and be our household supply? I was thinking since I'm on the river, I would not have to pump the water back into the ground... Not sure if that is even an option.

It's been a while since I have even done any research. I'm sure things have changed. If you have any good links...