Upgrade Justification

[AZBeer]

So I am curious...when or how do people justify upgrades to their setup? I am currently a small batch brewer. 1.25g batches. I am seriously eyeballing a SS Brewtech 2.5gal kit. It comes with a 5g kettle, a 3g brew bucket, and a FTSs. I would like to increase my yield, but I would like to continue to brew in my kitchen.

I am producing more good beer than bad, but I have a Blood Orange Hefe that I just brewed that has me questioning things (it is borderlline rocket fuel).

The easy answer is go for it...but $500 isn't chump change.

 

[johnwpowell]

500..drop in the bucket I'm probably 5000 in. Every brew you make incremental improvements. Some are process and some are equipment. Ask if the equipment investment will improve your brew or just something shiny. If it improves your brew...why not if you can afford it.

 

[johnwpowell]

I would also add don't buy something cheaper you'll probably upgrade later. In your case why not go for larger capacity? If there is one thing you should spend money on its temperature control.

 

[madscientist451]

Don't go for it, you can put together a temperature control with a small freezer that is more versatile than the small SS Brewtech fermenter with the FTS. For example, my small freezer cost $169 new the temp control was $80, and it holds 2, three gallon better bottles AND a small 2.5 gallon carboy I have, or 2, 5 gallon kegs and couple of cases of bottled beer. The freezer can also be be used for holding frozen items or to keep produce chilled. I've used it to keep cold bushels of fruit I obtained from an orchard.
The Brewtech set up won't do all that and a freezer is easier to sell if you want to get rid of it.
For a pot, the megapot 1.2 , 8 gallon from N. Brewer would work fine on your stove and you could do 5 gallon batches if you want to.
They run 20% off and free shipping sales from time to time, so your price would be as low as $80.
So you could do the pot, freezer and temp control and better bottle fermenters for for about $400. Or you could get a bigger freezer and be at the $500 level. Another option is look for used freezers on craigslist and have one for fermenting and another for kegs.
I agree with johnwpowell (above) that $500 isn't that much to spend on brewing stuff, but you don't have to spend $5K either.
I've bought lots of brewing/kegging equipment used. You don't need a fancy automated rig to make wort. Taking care of your yeast and fermentation is really important to brew good beer. Getting kegging equipment makes the whole process faster and easier.

 

[Calder]

If you have to justify your costs, then a fancy set-up is not for you.

I would recommend getting to at least 5 gallon capacity.

I brew in the kitchen using a 5 gallon pot. I have an igloo cooler that I modified for mashing, and usually do 8 lbs of grain a batch (sometimes I go more) and add additional sugars from extract (8 lbs at 80%+ efficiency will get a 1.050 wort in 5 gallons). I boil 4 gallons, and add top-up water to the fermenter. I have a swamp cooler to keep temps down and constant, and a fish tank heater to raise temps for Belgians.

I don't know my cost of equipment, it sure isn't $5,000. Maybe $500 over the past 20 years.

 

[mongoose33]

How do I justify upgrades?

Until now, I've never considered that I might need to defend those decisions.

I want to make the best beer I possibly can and I want to do that with the greatest efficiency of time and effort and possibly money.

To do those things I need appropriate measuring equipment (TDS meter, pH meter, excellent thermometer), enough capacity in my kettle and burner, a place to maintain ferm temperature, a way to make starters, a way to crush my own grain (which allows for purchases in bulk which save money), a way to oxygenate the wort....

Can you make good beer w/o all that stuff? Sure. I did. But I'm after great beer, exceptional beer, and to reach that goal I've been following a strategy of continuous quality improvement. Every time I brew I try to do something better.

My "upgrade" this time was to oxygenate the starter wort before pitching the yeast into the erlenmeyer flask. I'd never done that before. The yeast took off after pitching, so it didn't seem to hurt any.

*************

Some of these decisions are dependent upon where we are in our life cycle. My kids are grown and out of college. I have more disposable income than 10 years ago. Fifteen and even thirty years ago, there is no way I could have afforded the upgrades I have. Or even probably afforded to brew at all, wiht young kids at home.

In the end, you justify anything using whatever value system you have. My wife loves to travel. I don't. She travels with my daughter. I stay home usually. What I don't spend on travel I set aside for my hobbies, of which brewing beer is one.

You have to decide where the best place is to put your money. Some of it is simply having something fun to do so you stay sane.

 

[kh54s10]

So I am curious...when or how do people justify upgrades to their setup? I am currently a small batch brewer. 1.25g batches. I am seriously eyeballing a SS Brewtech 2.5gal kit. It comes with a 5g kettle, a 3g brew bucket, and a FTSs. I would like to increase my yield, but I would like to continue to brew in my kitchen.

I am producing more good beer than bad, but I have a Blood Orange Hefe that I just brewed that has me questioning things (it is borderlline rocket fuel).

The easy answer is go for it...but $500 isn't chump change.

You just justified an upgrade.

But IMO, 1.25 to 2.5 gallons is not an upgrade.

For about $150 -$200 you could go to BIAB all grain 5 gallon batches. If you don't want BIAB, for another $200 on or so additional you could do a 3 vessel system. I brewed 4 extract five gallon batches and 4 partial mash 5 gallon batches in a $20 stock pot and a $150 equipment kit while accumulating equipment for a 3 vessel all grain system.

You will probably have to go to propane or electric. Electric is quite expensive to start up. But if you go to 5 gallon batches that equipment you mentioned is not going to be useful.

That equipment is quite expensive, especially for the small batch size.

My suggestion. 5 gallon ingredient kits. Northern Brewer has very good ones. A $20 stainless steel stock pot from the grocery store. Ferment in a Better Bottle or Plastic bucket at about $25 to $35. Save a lot of money and really decide exactly what type of brewing you will do and what size batches in the long haul. IMO the size you are talking about - you are selling yourself short.

 

[Lefou]

500..drop in the bucket I'm probably 5000 in. Every brew you make incremental improvements. Some are process and some are equipment. Ask if the equipment investment will improve your brew or just something shiny. If it improves your brew...why not if you can afford it.

I switched from a 10 gallon Igloo cooler to a 7.5 gallon steel kettle. That cost me almost $200, but it allowed me to re-use the false bottom, step mash on the stove, and do decoctions with all grain, a definite step upward. Next thing I want is a stainless conical and a freezer I can convert with an Inkbird controller. That's really my baseline as a home brewer.
Wife gripes about it but this a long-term hobby I like. A little here, a little there over time. The beer has improved over the last two years and having the right stuff has allowed me to improve my method, so I say it was worth it.

 

[seatazzz]

You just justified an upgrade.

But IMO, 1.25 to 2.5 gallons is not an upgrade.

For about $150 -$200 you could go to BIAB all grain 5 gallon batches. If you don't want BIAB, for another $200 on or so additional you could do a 3 vessel system. I brewed 4 extract five gallon batches and 4 partial mash 5 gallon batches in a $20 stock pot and a $150 equipment kit while accumulating equipment for a 3 vessel all grain system.

You will probably have to go to propane or electric. Electric is quite expensive to start up. But if you go to 5 gallon batches that equipment you mentioned is not going to be useful.

That equipment is quite expensive, especially for the small batch size.

My suggestion. 5 gallon ingredient kits. Northern Brewer has very good ones. A $20 stainless steel stock pot from the grocery store. Ferment in a Better Bottle or Plastic bucket at about $25 to $35. Save a lot of money and really decide exactly what type of brewing you will do and what size batches in the long haul. IMO the size you are talking about - you are selling yourself short.

+1 to the 5 gallon kits. I did 5 gallon partial mash kits in my kitchen before I got my current setup (kinda 3-vessel system on 2-burner propane camp stove) using a 4 gallon pressure cooker I got from my mother's garage. You can also get a decent aluminum 12 gallon kettle (I have one, love it) from Costco for less than $70. Jumping from 1.25 gallon to 5 gallon batches may seem like a huge leap, but it's really not. Also, consider if you only went up to the 2.5 gallon setup and down the road want to upgrade to 5, you're going to have an equipment pile growing that you won't have use for. Once you can do five gallon batches, going all-grain will only require a mash tun that you can build yourself quite cheaply, if you find yourself wanting to go that route, or even go to BIAB.

 

[Kent88]

I "upgraded" from LBKs to one gallon batches when I decided that I wanted to try a larger variety of kits than what Mr. B offered. Then after I brewed a bunch of batches and started seeing what I liked and noticed that scaling down recipes from 5 gallons to 1 was a bit of a pain (seriously, fractions of an ounce of low AA% hops and tiny amounts of certain malts), I also figured I'd like to brew more "partial-extract" than "mini-mash".

I put together a 3-gallon mash tun and figured I'd start doing some 3-gallon recipes of brews I'd come to like. I didn't need a ton of new equipment to go from 1 to 3 gallons (I don't count the mash tun).

My wife just suggested yesterday that I might one day start doing some 5-gallon brewing. Not sure about that, but at least I know she's on board with it. Maybe for big occasions...

 

[kh54s10]

Again, I would like to opine. That is pretty expensive equipment. You can do the same thing spending less than $200. Most of that equipment will not be useful if you decide to go to bigger batches. So if you do go to bigger batches that equipment might sit gathering dust. Or you might sell it.. probably at less than half of what you paid.

I have been brewing 5 gallon batches for six years. None of my equipment is that fancy.

 

[AZBeer]

Thanks for the input guys.

As far as justifying the upgrade, I guess I am just trying to justify it to myself. My wife doesn't really care, I've already conditioned her to accept expensive hobbies with my reef tank. We can certainly afford it, but after the disaster of a Hefe that I brewed, that made me question the purchase.

Better temperature control is ultimately my goal. I think it is 50/50 about the functionality and the new shiny. The BrewBucket looks like it'd be a significant step up for fermenting. I definitely prefer a bucket, be it stainless or plastic to ferment in. I am maxed out as far as my pot goes, I am doing BIAB, and I can get sorta big beers in my current setup, but I certainly can't go any bigger. I have a modified Igloo for mashing, but honestly I found it to be more trouble than it's worth. I just mash in my pot.

 

[jekeane]

The #1 upgrade you can make at this point is fermentation temperature control. FTS systems are cool looking but if you have the space a small chest freezer with a controller is cheaper and more versatile in my opinion.

If I were doing exclusively small batches I would buy 3 Brew Demon plastic "conicals" with the airlock upgrade before I bought 1 mini brew bucket. (this is coming from someone who loves his ss brewtech stuff)

 

[Griffin495]

If you are happy with the size batches you are doing or just want to step up to 2.5g batches, why don't you just buy a 5 gallon kettle? Then go get yourself a mini fridge or freezer and an Inkbird controller to control it. Temp control is going to be your number one upgrade. When I first got started, I bought a 5 gallon pot for doing extracts. It sat around for years collecting dust when I upgraded to a 10 gallon pot for all grain. Before this summer, I never brewed in the summer as I had no means of controlling my temps but I bought a fridge and controller so I was ready to brew year round. One 5 gallon batch outside in the Texas heat and I had enough. I brought out my old 5 gallon pot and have been doing small batches inside all summer long. When the weather changes, I'll pull out my 5 gallon equipment, but for now, I'm happy to brew small batches inside. I'm brewing more often and brewing different recipes and I'm happy with that.

 

[mongoose33]

Thanks for the input guys.

As far as justifying the upgrade, I guess I am just trying to justify it to myself. My wife doesn't really care, I've already conditioned her to accept expensive hobbies with my reef tank. We can certainly afford it, but after the disaster of a Hefe that I brewed, that made me question the purchase.

One beer disaster does not a career make. Larger batches are not inherently harder--you just need the right combination of things.

IMO, when people make a major change to their setup/process--going from extract to all-grain, for instance, or from 1- to 5-gallon batches--the first recipe or two should be simple. Get the process down before trying to do unusual things. Once you can produce good beer from a simple recipe, then branch out to more complicated things.

Better temperature control is ultimately my goal. I think it is 50/50 about the functionality and the new shiny. The BrewBucket looks like it'd be a significant step up for fermenting. I definitely prefer a bucket, be it stainless or plastic to ferment in. I am maxed out as far as my pot goes, I am doing BIAB, and I can get sorta big beers in my current setup, but I certainly can't go any bigger. I have a modified Igloo for mashing, but honestly I found it to be more trouble than it's worth. I just mash in my pot.

If you're looking at other fermenters, you might consider one of the clear plastic ones. I never, ever was tempted by buckets--you can't see what's going on, they often don't seal at the lid, require a large opening to be dealt with when dry hopping....

I'm using the Bigmouth Bubbler from Northern Brewer (I have 5 of them) but if I were starting over I'd get the Fermonster from MoreBeer. Some LHBS sell them too (Mine does). And if you go that route, consider getting one with a spigot. I tried them with and without, and then retrofitted the one without to a spigot.

*************

There's a saying, buy once, cry once. Many is the time I've decided to go the cheap route only to realize later that I wanted to upgrade and the money I put in the cheap option is wasted, a sunk cost.

If you are careful with the money, you can get a high quality system. Ask yourself where you want to be in a year or so, what you'd wish you'd done a year from now.

Maybe there's a way you can earn a few extra bucks here and there, and devote that to the brewing enterprise. I sold off some of my older brewing equipment to help fund the upgrades. Perhaps you have some extra aquarium stuff you could sell to make some cash? Or something else?

 

[mongoose33]

Don't go for it, you can put together a temperature control with a small freezer that is more versatile than the small SS Brewtech fermenter with the FTS. For example, my small freezer cost $169 new the temp control was $80, and it holds 2, three gallon better bottles AND a small 2.5 gallon carboy I have, or 2, 5 gallon kegs and couple of cases of bottled beer. The freezer can also be be used for holding frozen items or to keep produce chilled. I've used it to keep cold bushels of fruit I obtained from an orchard.
The Brewtech set up won't do all that and a freezer is easier to sell if you want to get rid of it.
For a pot, the megapot 1.2 , 8 gallon from N. Brewer would work fine on your stove and you could do 5 gallon batches if you want to.
They run 20% off and free shipping sales from time to time, so your price would be as low as $80.
So you could do the pot, freezer and temp control and better bottle fermenters for for about $400. Or you could get a bigger freezer and be at the $500 level. Another option is look for used freezers on craigslist and have one for fermenting and another for kegs.
I agree with johnwpowell (above) that $500 isn't that much to spend on brewing stuff, but you don't have to spend $5K either.
I've bought lots of brewing/kegging equipment used. You don't need a fancy automated rig to make wort. Taking care of your yeast and fermentation is really important to brew good beer. Getting kegging equipment makes the whole process faster and easier.

The craigslist thing is sort of like fishing. Every once in a while you get a bite, but when you do get a good one, it's often a GOOD one. I once got $400+ worth of brewing equipment for $150, including a small refrigerator for a ferm chamber, an Inkbird, mash tun, fastrack bottle system, a TON of stuff.

My son just did a keezer. His freezer cost...$169. You're absolutely right, they really are useful for a lot. I like the refrigerator because I don't have to lift 5.5-gallon fermenters into a freezer, but it's not impossible by any means.

Speaking of Inkbirds. I have three of the 308 Inkbirds. One controls my keezer, two I use for the ferm chamber as I can control two fermentations at the same time under the right conditions. (See HERE). They go for under $40 at Amazon, and occasionally the Inkbird sponsor here runs specials. My last inkbird cost $28 from Amazon during a special.

 

[InTheBasement]

You get one chance to go around in life. Justify all you want, but do you think it's even worth all the time to justify a $500 expenditure?

 

[AZBeer]

Totally worth the time. If not, I would be actually working right now.

And it's always good to get different experiences and perspectives.

Debating a bigger kettle, 6g fermentor, and a mini-fridge. Any problem with that much headspace? Or maybe the brew demon.

 

[Homercidal]

There could a couple of reasons your Blood O4range hefe didn't turn out. I wouldn't decide not to upgrade based on one or two bad batches. Instead, use them as a learning device to improve your process. Sometimes it's helpful to get something like temp control. Other times it's good to change water sources, or change a recipe.

Everything has potential to impact your brewing, and almost anyone can make good beer in any style if they have basic equipment, good ingredients, and knowledge of the brewing process. The last one can take some experience and time to acquire.

Upgrade if it can give you a basic improvement like temp control, or allows you to brew the volume you want. And you should be able to brew 2.5 gallon batches in your kitchen.

 

[johnwpowell]

I can tell you from experience the shiny fermenters lead to spending more money. I have a brew bucket and and a chronical both with heating and cooling. I have a glycol chiller cooling them down. Here's my garage set up.

The rest of my investment is in the kegerator, 4 kegs, closed transfer set up, pumps, hoses and many many other gadgets. My kids are almost done with college and I have the space and love for home brewing.

To me the ss brewtech purchase was the slippery slope where the spend increased exponentially. The one thing that's improved my brew the most is temperature control, not the fermenters, but once I had the fermenters, i either needed multiple larger fridges or the glycol. I travel for work alot and the ftss system requiring you to put in ice packs daily doesn't work for me.

I have no regrets. There are things i can do that aren't possible with carboys like harvesting yeast or doing closed transfers to keg.

I would just reiterate that temp control should be your first investment and the freezer would be a solid purchase.

 

[brick_haus]

How do I justify an upgrade after determining that I REALLY want to do it?
Here is one example:
Wow, look! I have $500 in my hand! Honey, I'll be back in an hour or so. But be careful with my approach, it can lead to obsession!
AView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1502155995.394452.jpg

 

[applescrap]

So I am curious...when or how do people justify upgrades to their setup? I am currently a small batch brewer. 1.25g batches. I am seriously eyeballing a SS Brewtech 2.5gal kit. It comes with a 5g kettle, a 3g brew bucket, and a FTSs. I would like to increase my yield, but I would like to continue to brew in my kitchen.

I am producing more good beer than bad, but I have a Blood Orange Hefe that I just brewed that has me questioning things (it is borderlline rocket fuel).

The easy answer is go for it...but $500 isn't chump change.

For me the justification was that i didnt want to mar my new stove and time. Should have put that old stove in garage. Some have more money or want to spend more money than others. Graindaddy and the knock offs are really coming down in price maybe check them out. On the cheap get an 8 gallon 20 dollar tamale pot and you are in business. Thats what I used on my stove.

 

[BrewKnob]

Just go 20 gallons, you will anyway. Save all that money on the in between systems.

 

[applescrap]

Just go 20 gallons, you will anyway. Save all that money on the in between systems.

+1 25 even. 15 leaves a sparge on 10g biab.

 

[schematix]

i figure i am getting close to 20 large invested in the hobby.

still cheaper than golf though.

 

[brandonlovesbeer]

OMG! [emoji15]. I feel like such a cheap skate.

My first setup was
- $25 converted cooler (10gal) from Walmart as a mash tun
- $30 copper coil (home made wort chiller)
- $30 turkey fryer with 7gal pot
- $50 bottling buck with all the extra pieces. included.
- $20 in parts for homemade heat stick

Now I have:
- $80 25gal igloo cooler
- $50 thick walled 15gal aluminum pot
- $70 real copper wort chiller
- $100 (total cost) DIY kegerator
- $40 CO2 tank 20lbs
- $30 Corni keg

I already had or were given to me:
- 7gal glass carboy
- 4 other 5gal glass carboys
- 4 other corni kegs


I still use the Turkey fryer as the main heat source. And pot for heating water.
I've gone through quite a few auto siphons and bottling wands.

 

[eric19312]

If you think kegging might be in your future don't look at upgrading from one small batch size to another small batch size. Beer goes fast when it's in kegs and is consistently as good or better than most of the beer you might buy...

 

[mongoose33]

If you think kegging might be in your future don't look at upgrading from one small batch size to another small batch size. Beer goes fast when it's in kegs and is consistently as good or better than most of the beer you might buy...

Ain't that the truth. Homebrewing has ruined a lot of bar tasting for me. Hey, new beer on tap--let's try it! Oh......not as good as what i have on tap at home.

Stopped at Potosi Brewery not long ago, they have a beer called "Wisconnie." Supposed to be a Wisconsin take on a California Common. Well. It was awful. My own is much better. I had it again on another trip, and just as bad.

And I don't know what they're doing for yeast, but most of their beers have the same aftertaste.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Can I afford it or build it myself in an affordable manner?

Will it help me make more beer, better beer, or easier beer without sacrificing any part of the process that I value?

If the answer to those questions is yes, then the upgrade is a go.

Edit: Also, I do not at all regret going to 5 gallon batches. In fact, I'm already looking at 20 gallon kettles so I can do double batches in the future. It's odd how quickly your current setup will become confining.

 

[johnwpowell]

So please tell us...is the UPS man delivering your upgrades anytime soon?

 

[myelo]

So I am curious...when or how do people justify upgrades to their setup?

I say to myself, "Self, this is what you do for fun. Will this upgrade make it more fun? Yes you say? Well then you have my permission to get it."

 

[Murphys_Law]

A great philosopher once said, "I want, therefore I buy".

Wise words, indeed. What more justification do you need than to follow the advice from a wise man?

 

[AZBeer]

Still debating, but thinking of going in a bit of a different direction. Bigger kettle, bigger fermentor, and focus on converting something for temp control (fridge, mini or otherwise).

Been reading up on the 3.5g brew bucket, some people are saying the detachable base is a pain to deal with.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Going back to your original post of "500 ain't chump change" I built my entire 20 gallon electric setup including control panel spa panel dryer connections...everything..for $500 or $600.You don't HAVE to spend a ton for a good working system if you don't want to.

I've made my money back twice over just by brewing and not buying beer.

 

[AZBeer]

Slowly moving forward.

Picking up a 4.4 cu ft fridge this weekend, and have an ink bird on its way.

Looking for a kettle, will probably stick with the 3.5 gal SS BrewBucket, and will probably look at a Jaded Mantis.

 

[PADave]

Now that I have my set up, any upgrades have to make things easier or make the beer better. My last upgrade was to a SS BrewBucket fermenter. Why? Because I hate the clean up part of brewing. The BrewBucket is much easier to clean than my Fermonster or Speidel. Yes, $250 might seem like a lot, but it lessens my misery so to me it is worth it. And will probably be getting another one.

 

[Moose_MI]

I certainly would not let 1 mediocre result call into question your enthusiasm for the hobby. Pretty good chance you're going to occasionally have those so I would go back to how you felt about the upgrade before this batch. If $500 is not a major financial event for you then the $250 that you will be out if you decide to sell it on CL is even less of an issue.

Just do it.

 

[mongoose33]

Now that I have my set up, any upgrades have to make things easier or make the beer better. My last upgrade was to a SS BrewBucket fermenter. Why? Because I hate the clean up part of brewing. The BrewBucket is much easier to clean than my Fermonster or Speidel. Yes, $250 might seem like a lot, but it lessens my misery so to me it is worth it. And will probably be getting another one.

Dave, what did you get with yours that bumped the price up to $250 from the base $199?

 

[teal]

I'm single so the only person I have to justify things to is my cat and she don't care. 500 is nothing to sneeze at - particularly at one jump, just make sure you never add up what you spend here and there. I might have 500 in broken hydrometers around here....

Generally I look at it as this - will it improve things for me? Can I have more fun?

A yes to either starts the budgeting process.

I had decided to go AG a while back - bought some coolers etc but never got around to doing the change. Now I'm back to brewing after a 3 year break and those coolers are staring at me. I'm also lusting after a Spike Brewing system but as an intermediate step - I think I might do BIAB with those big gatorade coolers. Most BIAB seems to be 3 gallon stuff but I think if I do regular 5 gallon deals in those coolers, it might work just fine as a MLT. Siphon off to my boil kettle after and proceed as normal.

Point being - your brew journey will change 100 times, usually after the next email from Blichmann or Northern Brewer hits my inbox.... be open, be flexible and just enjoy it.

 

[PADave]

Dave, what did you get with yours that bumped the price up to $250 from the base $199?

I bought the brewmaster edition, so my inkbird probe can go inside. I always like to have spare parts on hand, so a couple extra stoppers and o-ring kits, put it somewhere just under $250.