Unreliable water

[itchygomey]

My tap water is very unreliable as it comes from multiple sources. Sometimes it comes from a water treatment plant through a pipeline, and sometimes it comes from the city's well. I have a charcoal RV filter and still use campden for chlorine. The problem is that if I use my tap water (both extract and all grain batches) it results in muted hop flavor and aroma. Distilled water with extract recipes turn out great. Seeing as how my water is unreliable at best, what are my options?

PS - SWMBO says I need to include the dancing banana -

 

[mchrispen]

Your best bet is to look at either purchasing Reverse Osmosis (RO) or Distilled water (DI) from the grocery - or purchasing a RO filter system for home, and building water for brewing.

The first thing I would do is to brew with store bought RO or DI, and make sure it is making the difference you expect. You will want to follow the Water Chemistry Primer stickied to the "Brew Science" forums here - and give a partial mash or full all grain mash a try. That is the easiest way to approach this, and you will quickly determine if store bought is difficult/expensive/inconvenient enough to justify a home RO system. You have different trade-offs then - the initial cost of the system (~$120-180 at most aquarium supplies), the cost/morality of waste water (my system uses about 3:1 waste to product), and the planning required to produce the water before brewing (RO can be slow to make good water) and how to store it. Waste water can also be captured and used in the garden or as cleaning water.

The least convenient might be to move where it is much warmer! or where tap water is pretty good for brewing (NYC, Seattle, etc.). It's been a rough winter up there.

 

[itchygomey]

Using distilled is certainly an option, and I've been looking at different calculators to try to determine what I would need to add to get me to decent brewing water. Unfortunately, I've gotten inconsistent results from calculator to calculator. Would this recipe work using distilled water and the water additions listed? One calculator shows this as extremely malty and another shows it as balanced?

Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Amber Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.49 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.67 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.05 gal
Estimated OG: 1.056 SG
Estimated Color: 14.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 40.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 74.9 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8.00 gal Treated Distilled Water Water 1 -
6.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
3.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 3 -
3.00 g Salt (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 4 -
1.00 g Baking Soda (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 5 -
1.00 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 6 -
4 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 7 36.2 %
4 lbs Rahr 2-row Malt (1.8 SRM) Grain 8 36.2 %
1 lbs 2.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 9 10.2 %
8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 10 4.5 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 11 4.5 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 12 4.5 %
1.9 oz debittered black malt (740.0 SRM) Grain 13 1.1 %
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 m Hop 14 19.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 22.0 min Hop 15 9.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 22.0 min Hop 16 11.4 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 17 -
5.0 oz Brown Sugar, Light [Boil for 15 min](8.0 Sugar 18 2.8 %
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirlpool Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 20 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 0.9 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 14.23 qt of water at 170.8 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.08gal, 3.34gal) of 185.0 F water

 

[mchrispen]

Way too much going on in my opinion... focus on calcium chloride, gypsum and maybe a little epsom. The salt is worthless IMO. FYI - I don't add minerals in Beer Smith... it just doesn't work for me.

Your focus should first be mash pH. Getting that correct will make 95% of the difference in the finish product. Then consider the flavor ions and minerals. Bru'n Water can help compute what and where - but ultimately it is your preference that drives the flavor side of the equation. The Primer is also a very good place to start and a simpler approach.

Give me a little bit - and I can model this for you. Assuming you want a more malt forward profile.

 

[itchygomey]

That would be awesome because I'm spinning my wheels!

 

[Jayhem]

Definitely use a water source that doesn't' vary and Bru'n water is your friend! Once I started acidifying my mash my lighter styles have gone from good to exceptional! Zero off flavors, competition worthy.

 

[mchrispen]

That is a VERY dark Amber recipe... closer to a porter or stout in color. Bru'n puts that grist at 31 SRM, not 16. I have never seen such a large disagreement before between software.

Ok so assuming your recipe, mash and sparge volumes are correct, I am getting about 4.3 estimated mash pH in Bru'n Water. You are going to need alkaline additions which will mention below:

This is using the following additions.

Mash Volume: 3.6 gallons
Gypsum 0.38 gram/gallon = 1.4 grams total
CaChloride 0.52 gram/gallon = 1.9 grams total

Sparge volume: 4.4 gallons
Gypsum = 1.7 grams total
CaChloride = 2.3 grams total

You are going to need some alkalinity to raise the mash pH to a reasonable level - say 5.4

Your choices are:
Baking Soda: 2.00 grams/gal = 7.1 grams total in the strike water. The issue here is the dramatically elevated sodium level at 145 ppm.

or

Pickling Lime: 1.25 grams/gal = 4.5 grams total in the strike water. The issue here is the dramatically elevated calcium level at 239 ppm​

I would give the baking soda a go - I doubt that you will taste the sodium at that concentration and it may enhance the flavor a bit.

You could possibly strike a balance in the middle using both lime and soda... but this is already complicated. PM me with your email addy and I will forward the spreadsheet - you should double check it for error.

 

[itchygomey]

I've brewed this before, and it most certainly not 31srm. I've gone through Bru'n water, ezwater calc and brewers friend calc and I've been getting different results.

 

[duboman]

I've brewed this before, and it most certainly not 31srm. I've gone through Bru'n water, ezwater calc and brewers friend calc and I've been getting different results.

That's because they all seem to take things in differently and calculate differently. Personally, Bru'n water is what I use and completely have the most confidence in. Martin is highly regarded in the science of water used for brewing and designed what i feel is the best tool for properly modifying your water source. His spreadsheet is free for the basic version is you want to try it, once you get used to it, it is easy to use. If you donate you get the full version which has added benefits making things even easier!

 

[ajdelange]

I've brewed this before, and it most certainly not 31srm. I've gone through Bru'n water, ezwater calc and brewers friend calc and I've been getting different results.

Calculators and spreadsheets are relatively precise in their pH estimates in comparison to their SRM estimates. Many people have ideas as to what a beer of SRM 31 should look like and calculators are based on that or in some cases a handful of measurements but there are just too many factors that a spreadsheet can't account for (boiling geometry, for example) that influence color. I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that there are many SRM color charts on the net and in books that are just wrong. Darker beer colors cannot be displayed on computer displays or the printed page. There was a lengthy thread on this subject a week or so ago.

 

[itchygomey]

Spreadsheet worked great after tweaking additions a bit. Spreadsheet predicted 5.2 ph and thats exactly where it fell. SRM was initially incorrect because the debittered black quantity was entered incorrectly. Its in the fermenter happy as a clam at 67 degrees. Cant wait to try it because im holding off on future brews until i get to try it.


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