Understanding brewing software and efficiency change calculations

[onthedot]

I am curious about how brewing softwares adjust for efficiency. I had always thought that any increase/decrease in grain would be relatively proportional for all grains. However, I have noticed my beersmith efficiency calculations seem funky on more a few occasions. Let me elaborate.

Let's use this recipe as an example (personal favorite.. brew this if you haven't tried it yet): https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/cascades-orange-pale-ale-84558/

The recipe assumes 68% efficiency, and the grain bill is:

9lbs Maris Otter (81.8% grain bill)
1lbs Vienna Malt (9.1% grain bill)
1lbs Crystal 20L (9.1% grain bill)


My method of brewing is no-spage, so, if I adjust my efficiency to about 50% I usually hit all of my numbers. When I adjust the above recipe in Beersmith to 50% efficiency using the 'Scale Recipe' function, the recommended grain bill is:

13lbs 1oz Maris Otter (88% grain bill)
1lbs 7oz Vienna Malt (9.8% grain bill)
5.3 oz Crystal 20L (2.2% grain bill)


I expect that the base grain would increase the most, but I can't figure out why the Vienna Malt increases by 7oz, and the Crystal 20L decreases by 11oz. If I am expecting a lower efficiency and therefore less output per lbs of grain, why would my recipe conversion for some grains go from 1lbs to only 5oz (over 50% drop)? I would think it would increase at the same rate as the Vienna malt... or at LEAST stay the same at 1lbs.

So what am I missing here?:cross:

 

[HomebrewMTB]

You might go to forum on BeerSmith.com and ask there. That doesn't look right though.

On a separate note, you should be able to do much better than 50% with a normal gravity ale. I've read you get about 50% with uncrushed grain. I get about 70% with no-sparge.

 

[ajf]

I use Promash, and also have Beersmith v 1.4
I put the original grain bill and efficiency into both programs, and scaled it for 50% efficiency.

They both produced essentially the same results. (The only differences were rounding errors that are insignificant.)
12.24 lbs Pale Malt and 1.36 lbs Vienna and Crystal 20 (from Promash)\
12 lbs 3.8 oz Pale Malt and 1 lb 5.8 oz Vienna and Crystal 20 (from Beersmith)

-a

 

[theveganbrewer]

Isn't there a setting on BS that makes the adjustment so SRM stays the same, bitterness, and OG? I would think this is where the difference comes up. What happens when you scale up and tell BS not to match the original specs?

 

[onthedot]

Isn't there a setting on BS that makes the adjustment so SRM stays the same, bitterness, and OG? I would think this is where the difference comes up. What happens when you scale up and tell BS not to match the original specs?

I've tried both ways and get the same output.

 

[onthedot]

You might go to forum on BeerSmith.com and ask there. That doesn't look right though.

On a separate note, you should be able to do much better than 50% with a normal gravity ale. I've read you get about 50% with uncrushed grain. I get about 70% with no-sparge.

I can't believe you get 70% eff with no-sparge! I need to double batch sparge if I want to hit upper 70%s. What is your process like?

My mash setup is a cooler with SS braid. I mash in and stir like heck, then stir an equal amount at the end of the mash. Since sparging doesn't happen, I'm not sure where else in my technique/process I could increase the efficiency numbers.