Uh-oh, something is ... off..

[Hannable1975]

OK, so I started back in July, did some extract kits, made some mediocre beer, did a few more, got better, and then WHAM I made some dang fine beers. Having a ball. Eased into AG by using the BIAB method - 4 good to great back to back brews.

Then The wheels feel off.

Every beer since has had what can only be lovingly called a "yuck" to it.

It is not really a "vomit" smell or taste, not cardboard either. More like a musty, kinda sour unpleasantness. Does it make the beer undrinkable? Not really - but kinda like Zima or Icehouse I have to "fight" the first one, and then the smooth out.

And it transcends all styles and yeasts.

Equipment is sterilized with the attention of an OCD afflicted QC lab tech. It is all bottled - have not tasted the kegged batches as they are still naturally carbing. And yes, I remove the spigot and clean it and all parts of the bottling bucker between every batch. I use STarSan and iodaphor, depending on the process.

So I took a few to a more experienced brewing friend to took one sip - looked at me and said " You're mashing too hot".

Well, that kinda makes sense - the "off" started with the batches made in my handy dandy Igloo MLT.

But I SWEAR I am following Brewsmith - heating strike to 170, mashing at 158.

Could I be too high? Is that all it takes to make my beer taste kinda yucky? He suggested 154. Concur?

I'mma brew tomorrow - any advice would be greatly appreciated - especially as I have a S&$*load of beer laying around that is potentially yucky right now....

 

[wildwest450]

Mash temp is dependent on the style being brewed.



-

 

[Frodo]

To carry out wildwest's comment, 158F is a good temp maybe for a low attenuating style like scottish ale, 149F for something you want to attenuate well, like american IPA for example. That said, always mashing at 158F should yield more of a "wow this is thick, heavy, malty, or sweet" rather than "yuck".

You say you're only bottling... on some (maybe 50%) batches when bottling, I found I'd get this weird taste that transcended all the styles but it showed up more like 3 weeks after bottling. Before that the beer would be good, but a little green/grainy tasting and sometimes was low on carbonation. I couldn't figure it out, but now I'm thinking it could be oxidation. I've been looking into possible oxidation for a while, and although the standard answer is "cardboard flavor", I see some reference to sherry tastes. Well what I get I wouldn't call "sherry" but it's something along those lines maybe. I just switched to kegging my last batch, but bottling I always worried I was exposing the beer too long to oxygen, and could never really siphon too "quietly" into bottles with my bottle filler. FWIW. Maybe it's oxidation? My taste is really hard to describe, kinda like a chemical that is evident in the taste and in the aroma too... "sherry"-like I dunno, but maybe.

 

[Hannable1975]

To further beat a dead horse - You ever hear how one man's trash is another man's treasure? Well, another brewing friend tried one - and declared it great. He even drank the three I dropped off way warmer than I care too. And when I told him my dilemma, he offered to "take them off your hands for ya".

Done and done. Good by nasty off flavored beer - and moving on to bigger and better.

 

[SkiSoloII]

Have you checked your thermometer? You could be mashing even higher than you think.

Ice water at 32F and boiling at 212.

 

[Hannable1975]

Have you checked your thermometer? You could be mashing even higher than you think.

Ice water at 32F and boiling at 212.

I use a calibrated and certified thermometer that I "borrow" from the quality control lab at work

 

[Seven]

What do you use for fermentation? Buckets, carboys? What are your fermentation temps and for how long?

 

[electrichead]

Interested in seeing where this goes. Every beer my friend brews has similar characteristics to what you are describing. I have been trying to pinpoint it for quite a while now with no luck.

 

[Hannable1975]

What do you use for fermentation? Buckets, carboys? What are your fermentation temps and for how long?

I use buckets, washed with boiling water and sanitized with StarSan.
I fferm most beers in a "swamp cooler", in a room with no heat / ac, and StarSan in the water bath.
3 weeks, minimum.

 

[Hannable1975]

Interested in seeing where this goes. Every beer my friend brews has similar characteristics to what you are describing. I have been trying to pinpoint it for quite a while now with no luck.

Luckily, it has just been the two for me, so far. this past Sunday tried a pint from the three subsequent batches ( kegged ) and the " yuck" is not there. So who knows - must have been something isolated.

 

[electrichead]

My friend bought a large order of caps that he has been using for all of his batches. Is it possible that certain caps are allowing oxidation. He does not keg but now I'm curious to let him keg half a batch at my place for test purposes .

 

[modernlifeisANDY]

Luckily, it has just been the two for me, so far. this past Sunday tried a pint from the three subsequent batches ( kegged ) and the " yuck" is not there. So who knows - must have been something isolated.

What sort of bottles did you use for your bottle conditioning and where/how were they stored?

What kind of capper did you use and did you check for a proper seal?

 

[motobrewer]

you're mashing everything at 158F? too hot for most beers.

beersmith doesn't calculate mash temps or anything. 158 if just kind of a placeholder.

 

[Hannable1975]

What sort of bottles did you use for your bottle conditioning and where/how were they stored?

What kind of capper did you use and did you check for a proper seal?

These were all 12 oz longnecks , washed with TSP, rinsed with cold water, sanitized as they were filled with StarSan, per my normal procedure.

Kept in closed cardboard boxes, in an unlighted, unheated closet, that the avg temp seems to be around 68.

Black handheld capper, also washed and sanitized each batch. Every bottle gets a twist test. ( I'm lucky my kiddos like to help bottle - we have quite the assembly line figured out... )

 

[Hannable1975]

you're mashing everything at 158F? too hot for most beers.

beersmith doesn't calculate mash temps or anything. 158 if just kind of a placeholder.

Yeah, that's what I was verifying in the OP.

I brewed a new brew this past weekend, An amber, and mashed at 154. Will be interested in seeing how it came out.

One thing I learned since this thread started in reference to beer smith, I had my " brew equipment" listed incorrectly - I changed my batching and voila !- it dropped the strike water and sparge temps, as well as the mash temp.

That's what I love about this hobby - always learning. Beer is fun - learning about beer - thats more fun.

 

[AussieBrewerInColorado]

Did you change your water source or how you get water to your HLT?

 

[Hannable1975]

Did you change your water source or how you get water to your HLT?

No - I use bottled water, always from the same store / same brand.

I'm really thinking it is a temp thing - that I was making yuck beer from step one.

 

[edecambra]

I had a similar crisis. I made a fermentation chiller out of styrofoam and plywood after a few batches and my next three batches very poor attenuation, 1.050-1.020. Three different yeasts, one dry and two liquid w/ starters.

All batches since ( about 4 or 5) have been fine though, and I don't know what I changed, just kept a strong attention to detail. It is damn frustrating to have something going wrong when you think it should all be going right. I am sure you will pass this rough spot.

Also, I forgot about those three beers and after about a month or two ( after the initial 3 week bottle aging) they taste great!! So you should have gotten rid of all of that batch because if you kept a bottle or two and tasted it in two months you might be kicking yourself. I mean I am shocked at how dramatic the 180 was.

and BIAB rocks!! that is how I mash currently with great success.