Types of yeast to use in cider

[hoot]

After lurking here on the forums for about a month I have finally created a profile in here. First off I must thank everyone for all the great information freely shared. So with my thanks given I will start off with a little background. A month ago I turned 21 and the first thing I did was to go out and buy some basic brewing supplies and started two Gallons of hard apple cider. In both I used pasture champagne yeast from red star. The only different variable is in one I used 1 cup of common cane sugar and the other one cup of brown sugar. These will be ready for testing in a week or so. I would like to start a few more gallons but I would like to try a different variable this time. This time my variable will be different yeast types. What are 4 types of yeast everyone would recommend for me to try.

 

[Albionwood]

Lalvin D47, Lalvin 1122-71B, Danstar Nottingham, and Mangrove Jack's M02.

That should give you a pretty good range of different results for comparison - and every one of them will be way better than that damn champagne yeast, IMO...

 

[hunter_le five]

I've had good results with Nottingham and Safale S-04. Any type of neutral ale yeast should work fine. I don't have much experience with wine yeasts.

Also, Wyeast 3068 (wheat beer yeast) worked really well for me, but was a very violent fermenter. Use a blow-off tube for that one!

 

[hoot]

Well I tasted some of my cider today and it was nothing like what I was expecting. It was very strong and tart with no apple flavor. Should I add some apple concentrate to it to sweeten and give it some apple flavor?

 

[Skep18]

I used some US-04 and it was good.

In my scenario, cider making was brought about as an easy, hands-off endeavor in which I wanted to try and spend as little as possible to get some decent cider. Compared to beer brewing, cider was loads easier. So in that respect, I just bought 1 gallon of cider, the cheap, locally available US-04, threw in part of a pack into a 1 gallon jug, shook it, air-locked it, waited a few weeks and then boom, you have cider. Back sweetened a bit with some cider I got for my next batch and didn't even carbonate (didn't have enough bottles available and given the price, I didn't care to wait, sanitize again, etc.)

Heck, I even just poured another ~1 gallon on the old yeast cake and let it ferment. Haven't gotten into that one yet. If it sucks, I'm out $5 for a gallon, lol. But even if it "sucks" I'm sure it will still be plenty drinkable.

I will say this time I will back sweeten with concentrate if I choose not to carbonate it. Less watering down of the final ABV.

 

[Skep18]

Well I tasted some of my cider today and it was nothing like what I was expecting. It was very strong and tart with no apple flavor. Should I add some apple concentrate to it to sweeten and give it some apple flavor?

Yes. I "rescued" my first batch (no extra sugar, just plain 'ole cider) by adding roughly 1 part non-fermented cider to 4 or 5 parts fermented cider, and it was much better. As stated above, I will use concentrate next time.

 

[hoot]

Well I ran home real quick during the break in my class ( 4 hours of geology lecture) and i dumped in 1 can of apple juice concentrate and replaced the water lock. How long should i wait before I drink? Is there anything additional i should do?

 

[ericbw]

Well I ran home real quick during the break in my class ( 4 hours of geology lecture) and i dumped in 1 can of apple juice concentrate and replaced the water lock. How long should i wait before I drink? Is there anything additional i should do?

Every time you add sugar, you're giving the yeast something to eat. They will turn most of the sugar to alcohol. You'll end up with a higher alcohol cider that is still very tart and dry. When you add the concentrate, you should then refrigerate it. That will keep it sweet and appley without fermenting. But keep the airlock on it in the fridge until you're sure the yeast has gone to sleep.

The answer to your question of how long to wait is until it is "after class." Although let it get chilled first, too.

So you have 1 gallon of fermented cider with 1 can of juice concentrate? Should be decent.

You know it won't be carbonated, right?

 

[Skep18]

Well I ran home real quick during the break in my class ( 4 hours of geology lecture) and i dumped in 1 can of apple juice concentrate and replaced the water lock. How long should i wait before I drink? Is there anything additional i should do?

How long has it been brewing? The idea behind back sweetening is to add sweetness to the dry hard cider. If you let the yeast go through fermentation again, it'll get more dry, lol.

I'm not sure how people back sweeten carbonated beverages, however, I imagine to avoid exploding bottles its the same? I added the cider (or concentrate) to the cider right before drinking. Again, mine at the time was uncarbonated and some friends and I drank the 1 gallon that night so I simply siphoned it off the yeast into another 1 gallon jug, added the fresh, sweet cider to that and enjoyed that night. The idea is to avoid fermentation again.

Pending you did add it early and fermentation does again occur, fear not, you'll probably just end up with a higher ABV. Some will probably chime in with how it lets off flavors, reactivating the yeast a second time or something, idk. But if it were me, either drink it before fermentation occurs (like the same day) or just back sweeten to taste right before drinking. Instead of ~5.5% which I think most pure ciders come out too if you don't add anything (very ballparked figure) it'll be 7.0% or something, idk. Just add concentrate until it tastes palatable again and be careful as it will probably creep up on you, lol.

As a final note, you can YouTube it, but some people take a 1 gallon, dump out 3 cups, add 3 cups table sugar and then ferment with no complaints. Idk if they back sweeten or not, but it all works out. You learn as you go what you like and what you don't.

Non-backsweetened hard cider tastes a lot like a white wine IMO. It was good, but not cider-like.

Hope this helps.

 

[Skep18]

Every time you add sugar, you're giving the yeast something to eat. They will turn most of the sugar to alcohol. You'll end up with a higher alcohol cider that is still very tart and dry. When you add the concentrate, you should then refrigerate it. That will keep it sweet and appley without fermenting. But keep the airlock on it in the fridge until you're sure the yeast has gone to sleep.

The answer to your question of how long to wait is until it is "after class." Although let it get chilled first, too.

So you have 1 gallon of fermented cider with 1 can of juice concentrate? Should be decent.

You know it won't be carbonated, right?

This makes sense. I suppose if you wanted to bottle carbonate it and back sweeten, I'm not sure if this would work though as I would imagine bottles would explode, lol. Maybe he can chime in though. Seems you could just sweeten in the glass if you wanted to carbonate it.

Either way, fear not, you'll have something good to drink. I agree, 1 gallon juice and 1 concentrate can, you should have good cider. I made my first with no extra sugars and after back sweetening with cider (not concentrate) it was probably a ~4% non-carbonated juicy flavor which my friends and I enjoyed on the porch, in the shade after working outside all day in the heat. It was still very enjoyable and refreshing.

 

[hoot]

This is just me getting my feet wet in brewing. I am just looking to gain experience and supplies before I move on to brewing beer and other beverages.

 

[Skep18]

This is just me getting my feet wet in brewing. I am just looking to gain experience and supplies before I move on to brewing beer and other beverages.

Yea, you picked a good way to start. 5 gallons of beer will likely be much less forgiving in off flavors created by faults in technique. In my limited experience, cider is something hard to mess up in terms of making something you'll enjoy drinking. Just continue with this one, take mental notes of what you did and adjust the next accordingly.

Might I ask how long you've been fermenting this one?

 

[hoot]

I will not be bottling this cider due to the fact that the closest brewing store is an hour away. This batch will be enjoyed with a friend who are also trying to get into brewing.

 

[ericbw]

This makes sense. I suppose if you wanted to bottle carbonate it and back sweeten, I'm not sure if this would work though as I would imagine bottles would explode, lol. Maybe he can chime in though. Seems you could just sweeten in the glass if you wanted to carbonate it.

Either way, fear not, you'll have something good to drink. I agree, 1 gallon juice and 1 concentrate can, you should have good cider. I made my first with no extra sugars and after back sweetening with cider (not concentrate) it was probably a ~4% non-carbonated juicy flavor which my friends and I enjoyed on the porch, in the shade after working outside all day in the heat. It was still very enjoyable and refreshing.

Bottle carbonation is tricky with cider because almost all of the sugar is fermentable. Unlike beer, which has a lot of non-fermentables by comparison.

There are really two ways to get carbed cider in bottles.

Sweeten/prime with juice or sugar. Fill one plastic bottle with the same cider, cap them, and AS SOON AS the plastic bottle is firm, put them all in the fridge and keep them there except to drink. The plastic is your tester.

If you want, you can pasteurize on the stove top or in a dishwasher after it is carbonated, but you never know for sure that the yeast is dead. We did it this way in mini-champagne bottles, and it worked. Nerve-wracking to boil sealed and carbed bottles.

Anything else and you risk broken glass.

Of course, blending with fresh cider and 7-Up would also be an option to make it fizzy, although different.

It's funny because ciders like Strongbow and Woodchuck are great, but it seems most ciders people make are really low ABV apple wines.

 

[hoot]

I started brewing the two batches on September 17th and I added the concentrate about two hours ago. I racked the cider yesterday. I have been taking a very scientific approach to this. I have been taking notes on everything done to the brew along with any observations so that any results can be duplicated.

 

[Skep18]

I will not be bottling this cider due to the fact that the closest brewing store is an hour away. This batch will be enjoyed with a friend who are also trying to get into brewing.

In that case, roughly 2 or 3 weeks after pitching the yeast or, in this case, after adding your last bit of sugars (probably closer to 3, especially if you added sugars making higher ABV) pour off a sample into a cup, add some fresh juice/concentrate and taste it. If its been fermenting for a week or 2 before you dumped in the concentrate, let it sit until 2 weeks and give it a try. If it needs more/less sweetening but still seems to have potential, pour the rest off the yeast, refrigerate and enjoy when you're ready, remembering not to back sweeten until you're ready to drink (like the same day) or, as mentioned, when the gallon jug is cold enough to put the remaining yeast in to a dormant state.

Bottle carbonation is tricky with cider because almost all of the sugar is fermentable. Unlike beer, which has a lot of non-fermentables by comparison.

There are really two ways to get carbed cider in bottles.

Sweeten/prime with juice or sugar. Fill one plastic bottle with the same cider, cap them, and AS SOON AS the plastic bottle is firm, put them all in the fridge and keep them there except to drink. The plastic is your tester.

If you want, you can pasteurize on the stove top or in a dishwasher after it is carbonated, but you never know for sure that the yeast is dead. We did it this way in mini-champagne bottles, and it worked. Nerve-wracking to boil sealed and carbed bottles.

Anything else and you risk broken glass.

Of course, blending with fresh cider and 7-Up would also be an option to make it fizzy, although different.

It's funny because ciders like Strongbow and Woodchuck are great, but it seems most ciders people make are really low ABV apple wines.

lol @ 7-up. But accurate. Clever on other methods, but seems to be a lot of work... Sounds like I'll likely continue with flat cider, which is still delicious!

They do sell non-fermentable sugars I suppose you could back sweeten with before you bottle and continue with conditioning/refrigerating as usual, but that might not be the right flavor profile.

 

[Skep18]

I started brewing the two batches on September 17th and I added the concentrate about two hours ago. I racked the cider yesterday. I have been taking a very scientific approach to this. I have been taking notes on everything done to the brew along with any observations so that any results can be duplicated.

Well, in that case, taste it! lol. Its racked off the yeast, so while there is definitely still yeast in the cider which would restart fermentation if not chilled, the trub on the bottom won't impart any noticeable flavors over time (which is also a topic of debate, but not for this conversation).

If it were me, pour yourself a shot glass and try it. My guess, you'll probably like it. If so, just do as the other guy advised, refrigerate it to chill it down and make the yeast go dormant (to stop any further fermentation) and just pour to drink whenever you want it.

Just a though, might want to leave an air lock on it in the fridge just in case the yeast starts up again. I'd rather see an active air lock than a exploded 1 gallon jug in my fridge.

If it doesn't taste good in that its too sweet, you can either get clever and save this batch by adding some alcohol to it (white wine, even a small bit of flavorless spirits even? Just thinking out loud here) or I would save it and mix it with another fermented batch that you didn't back sweeten and let the dryness balance it out. You might could pour it back on the yeast or pitch more, but that's probably not worth the trouble.

If it were me, being the "cheap 'n easy" cider approaching guy, and it were "too sweet" I'd probably add some fresh apple juice and everclear or something, lol. Might not be amazing, but making the best of the situation. But again, odds are it should be really good.

Heck, my notes to improve my cider was to do just what you're suggesting. Make 1 gallon fermented and add concentrate before drinking. A whole can or not, Idk. That's all to personal preference.

 

[ericbw]

In that case, roughly 2 or 3 weeks after pitching the yeast or, in this case, after adding your last bit of sugars (probably closer to 3, especially if you added sugars making higher ABV) pour off a sample into a cup, add some fresh juice/concentrate and taste it. If its been fermenting for a week or 2 before you dumped in the concentrate, let it sit until 2 weeks and give it a try. If it needs more/less sweetening but still seems to have potential, pour the rest off the yeast, refrigerate and enjoy when you're ready, remembering not to back sweeten until you're ready to drink (like the same day) or, as mentioned, when the gallon jug is cold enough to put the remaining yeast in to a dormant state.



lol @ 7-up. But accurate. Clever on other methods, but seems to be a lot of work... Sounds like I'll likely continue with flat cider, which is still delicious!

They do sell non-fermentable sugars I suppose you could back sweeten with before you bottle and continue with conditioning/refrigerating as usual, but that might not be the right flavor profile.

Oh, yes, I forgot... you could use Splenda or stevia and get it sweet, too, but then it would taste like diet cider. Ugh.

 

[ericbw]

Well, in that case, taste it! lol. Its racked off the yeast, so while there is definitely still yeast in the cider which would restart fermentation if not chilled, the trub on the bottom won't impart any noticeable flavors over time (which is also a topic of debate, but not for this conversation).

If it were me, pour yourself a shot glass and try it. My guess, you'll probably like it. If so, just do as the other guy advised, refrigerate it to chill it down and make the yeast go dormant (to stop any further fermentation) and just pour to drink whenever you want it.

Just a though, might want to leave an air lock on it in the fridge just in case the yeast starts up again. I'd rather see an active air lock than a exploded 1 gallon jug in my fridge.

If it doesn't taste good in that its too sweet, you can either get clever and save this batch by adding some alcohol to it (white wine, even a small bit of flavorless spirits even? Just thinking out loud here) or I would save it and mix it with another fermented batch that you didn't back sweeten and let the dryness balance it out. You might could pour it back on the yeast or pitch more, but that's probably not worth the trouble.

If it were me, being the "cheap 'n easy" cider approaching guy, and it were "too sweet" I'd probably add some fresh apple juice and everclear or something, lol. Might not be amazing, but making the best of the situation. But again, odds are it should be really good.

Heck, my notes to improve my cider was to do just what you're suggesting. Make 1 gallon fermented and add concentrate before drinking. A whole can or not, Idk. That's all to personal preference.

And if you're worried about too sweet, then you might like really dry stuff. Let it run all the way out, then prime like you would beer (very roughly 1 oz dissolved sugar per gallon), and then bottle it. Tastes like very dry champagne.

 

[mrphillips]

I've only made one cider, and I used S-04. It worked quite well, and I'll be using it again in my next batch this weekend (well actually it'll be a Graff, AKA an Apple ale).

Something else I did was add 3 cups of brown sugar to my 4 gallon batch after it was done fermenting. I pasteurized it (so it wouldn't blow itself to kingdom-come), and the added sugar made it nice and sweet. You might not be going for that flavor, but It worked for me. If you want something dryer, I've heard that wine yeast will work well.

 

[hoot]

Wow I have enough information to last a long time. I will sample it in a few hours after I get off work. Thank you everyone, I wish y'all were here to taste a sample with me and tell me what you think.

 

[Skep18]

Wow I have enough information to last a long time. I will sample it in a few hours after I get off work. Thank you everyone, I wish y'all were here to taste a sample with me and tell me what you think.

Let us know how it is.

 

[hoot]

I sampled the cider and it was alot smoother and sweeter than before I added the concentrated. After drinking a 12 ounce glass I was pleasantly surprised when I felt the end of my nose go numb. Usually It takes two or so beers to reach that point for me. After two glasses I had a good buzz. I stopped there because I was drinking it as if it was apple juice. I believe I have a new favorite drink.

 

[Skep18]

I sampled the cider and it was alot smoother and sweeter than before I added the concentrated. After drinking a 12 ounce glass I was pleasantly surprised when I felt the end of my nose go numb. Usually It takes two or so beers to reach that point for me. After two glasses I had a good buzz. I stopped there because I was drinking it as if it was apple juice. I believe I have a new favorite drink.

And its that easy! lol.

 

[hoot]

Now its time to start a batch of mead