Treehouse Brewing Julius Clone

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The spoils of today's adventure (glasses too)!
The real deal on the left, my Treehouse tribute on the right.


This is my first side-by-side comparison. And damn, I'm close! Aroma is almost indistinguishable.
Color: damn close.

The Julius is admittedly fresher, but mine has been kegged for six weeks and the Julius was probably packaged yesterday.

I need to work on the water profile, as I just used untreated tap water for mine. I've only started treating water in the last month. So the Julius has that "pillowy" mouthfeel where mine is "normal beer" mouthfeel.

Fwiw, I used only Citra, Galaxy, and Azacca in this batch.

IMG_6531.jpg


IMG_6533.jpg
 
Update: as mine warms up to the same temp, there is an aroma discrepancy coming through.
There is a definite common core (probably the Citra), but mine is more passion fruit and mango (I was going for tropical fruit bomb, not necessarily citrus) and the Julius is a little more overripe orange, tangerine, and some other "C" hop (other than citra).
 
But I tell, you, I am in beer Nirvana right now (and though Julius is 6.8% ABV, mine is 8%, so i'm 2/3 done with both and already have a healthy buzz).

Also, in case anybody cares, my version is called...wait for it...
I Like Big Hops (and I Cannot Lie)
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
But I tell, you, I am in beer Nirvana right now (and though Julius is 6.8% ABV, mine is 8%, so i'm 2/3 done with both and already have a healthy buzz).

Also, in case anybody cares, my version is called...wait for it...
I Like Big Hops (and I Cannot Lie)
Click to expand...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reTx5sqvVJ4[/ame]
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
Update: as mine warms up to the same temp, there is an aroma discrepancy coming through.
There is a definite common core (probably the Citra), but mine is more passion fruit and mango (I was going for tropical fruit bomb, not necessarily citrus) and the Julius is a little more overripe orange, tangerine, and some other "C" hop (other than citra).
Click to expand...

how much citra galaxy and azacca did you add and at what step in the process? the citra to me adds a general light tropical character, pretty bright and light. the galaxy should add some super dank-tropical-resinous. maybe you are adding too much galaxy. not sure on what the azacca contributes, as i've never used it.
 
stickyfinger said:
how much citra galaxy and azacca did you add and at what step in the process? the citra to me adds a general light tropical character, pretty bright and light. the galaxy should add some super dank-tropical-resinous. maybe you are adding too much galaxy. not sure on what the azacca contributes, as i've never used it.
Click to expand...

Okay, so I'll post my hop schedule with a BIG caveat:
this batch has much more bitterness than my last one, largely due to going too big on the flameout addition. Then after about a month in the keg, when the volatile fresh hops was fading, I closed-loop transferred it to a 2.5 gal keg with 2 more oz of Galaxy dry hop. The result: while the flavor is spot on to what I was aiming for (and fresh once again due to the second keg dry hop), the bitterness is approaching west coast IPA bitterness. I left that out of the description because it was an error on my part that doesn't take away from the flavor and aroma.

Also, it was my first time using Azacca. I used it because it supposedly adds tropical fruit, and I wanted to move away from the dankness I got from my previous batch (further below). I did not get a strong dankness from the Galaxy. A little, but not on par with Simcoe.

Here is what I did:
1 oz Azacca - 15 min boil
0 min flameout:
1 oz each: Azacca, Citra, Galaxy
Dry Hop - H Kreusen:
1 oz each: Azacca, Citra, Galaxy
Dry Hop - Post-ferm:
1 oz each: Azacca, Citra, Galaxy
Next time I would only use Citra in the flameout and either push the other two ounces into dry hop or even keg hop.

The batch before was also excellent, but a little more dankness than I wanted. But here it is:
1 oz Simcoe - 15 min boil
1 oz Citra- 5 min boil
1 oz Mosaic - 0 min flameout
1 oz Citra day 3 dry hop
1 oz Galaxy day 3 dry hop
2 oz Citra day 6 dry hop
2 oz Galaxy day 6 dry hop
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
Okay, so I'll post my hop schedule with a BIG caveat:
this batch has much more bitterness than my last one, largely due to going too big on the flameout addition. Then after about a month in the keg, when the volatile fresh hops was fading, I closed-loop transferred it to a 2.5 gal keg with 2 more oz of Galaxy dry hop. The result: while the flavor is spot on to what I was aiming for (and fresh once again due to the second keg dry hop), the bitterness is approaching west coast IPA bitterness. I left that out of the description because it was an error on my part that doesn't take away from the flavor and aroma.

Also, it was my first time using Azacca. I used it because it supposedly adds tropical fruit, and I wanted to move away from the dankness I got from my previous batch (further below). I did not get a strong dankness from the Galaxy. A little, but not on par with Simcoe.

Here is what I did:
1 oz Azacca - 15 min boil
0 min flameout:
1 oz each: Azacca, Citra, Galaxy
Dry Hop - H Kreusen:
1 oz each: Azacca, Citra, Galaxy
Dry Hop - Post-ferm:
1 oz each: Azacca, Citra, Galaxy
Next time I would only use Citra in the flameout and either push the other two ounces into dry hop or even keg hop.

The batch before was also excellent, but a little more dankness than I wanted. But here it is:
1 oz Simcoe - 15 min boil
1 oz Citra- 5 min boil
1 oz Mosaic - 0 min flameout
1 oz Citra day 3 dry hop
1 oz Galaxy day 3 dry hop
2 oz Citra day 6 dry hop
2 oz Galaxy day 6 dry hop
Click to expand...

interesting. i would have thought that the galaxy would add a lot more dank-resinous than the simcoe. most of the simcoe i've used of late has added a very smooth dank character. i get my simcoe from farmhouse brewing usually. maybe you use a different supplier?
 
I've just been buying from my LHBS, but that's getting expensive for NEIPAs. So I may start buying from Farmhouse so too. My last batch cost nearly $40 in hops alone.
I have picked up a little dankness with my last dry hop, but it's mild and not prominent. That's 5 ounces of Galaxy in a 5 gal batch.
 
I brewed this 2 weeks ago and went ahead and racked it into a keg and started the dry hop. I tested the gravity and it was at 1.020 which is high. I know I should have tested it beforehand but I didn't. It does look really good and tastes good too from the hydrometer reading.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1491356911.198611.jpg. What is the major downfall of higher gravity other than abv?
 
ebrooker007 said:
I brewed this 2 weeks ago and went ahead and racked it into a keg and started the dry hop. I tested the gravity and it was at 1.020 which is high. I know I should have tested it beforehand but I didn't. It does look really good and tastes good too from the hydrometer reading.View attachment 395331. What is the major downfall of higher gravity other than abv?
Click to expand...

what was the OG?

what yeast?

mash temp?

if you think it tastes good, who cares?!

you can carbonate it more to give it more of a bite that decreases the sweetness. also, more keg hops will make it seem more dry.
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
I've just been buying from my LHBS, but that's getting expensive for NEIPAs. So I may start buying from Farmhouse so too. My last batch cost nearly $40 in hops alone.
I have picked up a little dankness with my last dry hop, but it's mild and not prominent. That's 5 ounces of Galaxy in a 5 gal batch.
Click to expand...

I used to buy hops from my local but it's gotten way to expensive, I go through farmhouse also now much cheaper but I still get all my grain from my lhbs. It's just to expensive to buy 1oz for 3$ when I can get a better variety for 6-8$ for 4 oz.
 
I honestly don't know how anyone can afford to buy hops at a LHBS. I'm all for supporting local business, but the price difference is enormous. Not to mention that the amount of times the hops have been opened and repackaged is minimized with a retailer such as Farmhouse.
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
The spoils of today's adventure (glasses too)!
The real deal on the left, my Treehouse tribute on the right.


This is my first side-by-side comparison. And damn, I'm close! Aroma is almost indistinguishable.
Color: damn close.

The Julius is admittedly fresher, but mine has been kegged for six weeks and the Julius was probably packaged yesterday.

I need to work on the water profile, as I just used untreated tap water for mine. I've only started treating water in the last month. So the Julius has that "pillowy" mouthfeel where mine is "normal beer" mouthfeel.

Fwiw, I used only Citra, Galaxy, and Azacca in this batch.
Click to expand...

Awesome! Do you mind posting up your grain bill?

Sorry if I missed it.
 
noslenwerd said:
Awesome! Do you mind posting up your grain bill?
Sorry if I missed it.
Click to expand...

Sure thing.
5 gallon batch
8 lb 2-Row Pale Malt (56.1%)
3 lb Vienna Malt (21.1%)
1 lb Flaked Wheat (7%)
1 lb Flaked Oats (7%)
1 lb Honey (7%)
4 oz Honey Malt (1.8%)

Note: The honey is 7% by weight, but it contributes much more than that to the fermentable sugar percentage.

FWIW it was fermented with WLP007.
 
stickyfinger said:
what was the OG?



what yeast?



mash temp?



if you think it tastes good, who cares?!



you can carbonate it more to give it more of a bite that decreases the sweetness. also, more keg hops will make it seem more dry.
Click to expand...


London ale III
150 degree mash temp

I think it is going to be delicious just thought it finished high. Don't worry it will probably get drank. Just asking if other than abv any issues with higher final gravity.
 
stickyfinger said:
what was the OG?



what yeast?



mash temp?



if you think it tastes good, who cares?!



you can carbonate it more to give it more of a bite that decreases the sweetness. also, more keg hops will make it seem more dry.
Click to expand...


London ale III
150 degree mash temp

I think it is going to be delicious just thought it finished high. Don't worry it will probably get drank. Just asking if other than abv any issues with higher final gravity.

I also did dry hop with
1.5 ounce Amarillo, simcoe and centennial. Think it should be really tasty and my drinking buddies probably won't know about the higher final gravity. They will just enjoy the taste. Most have never had a NEIPA and neither have I for that matter.
 
Anyone try dry hopping near FG for 1-2 days as opposed to the longer dry hop times, w the same recipe? Supposedly the hops only need that much time to reach "full potential". Anything longer may express more piney, dank, and/or grassy flavors?
 
Tijuanatovar said:
Anyone try dry hopping near FG for 1-2 days as opposed to the longer dry hop times, w the same recipe? Supposedly the hops only need that much time to reach "full potential". Anything longer may express more piney, dank, and/or grassy flavors?
Click to expand...
On the 4th day (3/8/17) I double dry hopped 2 oz citra/ 1 oz mosaic/ 1 oz simcoe then the same on 11th day. Bottled on 14th day 3/18/17.
This beer is fantastic and at peek right now (almost week 4). Too bad I only have about 12 bottles left from the original 2.5 cases. I'm impatient and start sampling one week after bottling and start really consuming before two weeks.
The bottles have a caked sediment at the bottom. When I pour I'll pour about 3/4 then give the bottle a gentle swirl and pour some of the sediment into the glass. It really adds flavor and foam.
I just did my first dryhop on the same recipe with Nelson added to the mix
 
Tijuanatovar said:
Anyone try dry hopping near FG for 1-2 days as opposed to the longer dry hop times, w the same recipe? Supposedly the hops only need that much time to reach "full potential". Anything longer may express more piney, dank, and/or grassy flavors?
Click to expand...

thats exactly what i did. Bottling tonight after a second dry hop of 4 days (today is the 4th)
 
Tijuanatovar said:
Anyone try dry hopping near FG for 1-2 days as opposed to the longer dry hop times, w the same recipe? Supposedly the hops only need that much time to reach "full potential". Anything longer may express more piney, dank, and/or grassy flavors?
Click to expand...


i think brulosophy said later dry hops result in more dank character and earlier dry hops result in more rounded hop character - one of their recent xbmts maybe?
 
Tijuanatovar said:
Anyone try dry hopping near FG for 1-2 days as opposed to the longer dry hop times, w the same recipe? Supposedly the hops only need that much time to reach "full potential". Anything longer may express more piney, dank, and/or grassy flavors?
Click to expand...

Matt Brynildson from Firestone Walker suggests 3 day dry hop durations. They don't do NEIPA's, but he knows his hops.
 
RE: dry hopping duration

This info is from Peter Wolfe's thesis (via Braukasier: http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2012/12/12/interesting-paper-on-dry-hopping/)

"2.3.3 Long Term Dry Hop Aroma Extraction: In long term experiments a model solution of 6% ethanol in water buffered to a pH of 4.2 was dry hopped and the linanol and mycrene content was measured on day 1, 4 and 7. The solution was not agitated. The amount of these compounds dissolved did not increase over time. It actually decreased which suggests that the maxium extraction is reached after one day of dry hopping."

I believe this is where a lot of people are propagating the 1-2 is enough time for extraction theory. I personally prefer 2 days at 72, then drop the temp to ambient (60F in my unfinished basement) or cold crash and package.
 
What a great thread!

I'll be giving Cavpilot2000's recipe a shot this weekend with a few changes. Thank you in advance for sharing your recipe. I've had a lot of luck with the Trillium Vicinity Clone recipe that's been circulating on these boards (with a few minor changes as well) so this outstanding.

All Grain 5 Gallon Treehouse (inspired) NE IPA
ABV: 6.8

Water
Water: 9.1 Gallons
Target Mash Temp: 152F
Mash Water: 4.41 gal.
Sparge Water: 4.68 gal.
Strike Temp: 164.33F
Cooler Strike Temp: 175F
Pre-Boil Wort Produced: 6.37 gal

Grains
8 lb 2-Row Pale Malt (56.1%)
3 lb Vienna Malt (21.1%)
1 lb Flaked Wheat (7%)
1 lb Flaked Oats (7%)
1 lb Honey (7%)
4 oz Honey Malt (1.8%)

Mash 60 mins @ 152F

Hops
1 oz Simcoe - 15 min boil
1 oz Citra- 5 min boil
1 oz Mosaic - 0 min flameout
1 oz Columbus - 0 min flameout
1 oz Citra day 3 dry hop
1 oz Galaxy day 3 dry hop
2 oz Citra day 6 dry hop
2 oz Galaxy day 6 dry hop

Yeast
Yeast: Vermont Ale — The Yeast Bay
Yeast Starter + Stir Plate - 24 hours (stir plate), 12 hours refrigerated before decanting.
1 liter, 4.22 cups water + 6 oz DME

Additions
1 Teaspoon Yeast Nutrients @ 10 min (Boil)
2 Teaspoons of Calcium Chloride (Mash)

Primary Fermentation: 7-10 days @ 68F

Cheers!
 
I usually like more oats/oat flour and wheat malt (40% ish total) in the mash and higher (5-10 grams) chloride in the mash and higher whirlpool additions. Looks good tho! ��

IMG_8382.jpg
 
Any chance someone can point me to cavapilot's latest recipe iteration? I've gone back 30 pages here and still haven't found. Thanks!
 
comoxlandia said:
Any chance someone can point me to cavapilot's latest recipe iteration? I've gone back 30 pages here and still haven't found. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Sure thing.

5 gallon batch
8 lb 2-Row Pale Malt (56.1%)
3 lb Vienna Malt (21.1%)
1 lb Flaked Wheat (7%)
1 lb Flaked Oats (7%)
1 lb Honey (7%)
4 oz Honey Malt (1.8%)
Note: The honey is 7% by weight, but it contributes much more than that to the fermentable sugar percentage.
FWIW I use WLP007 for yeast. With this recipe it got me from 1.074 to 1.013 (8% abv and super-drinkable).

I tweak my hops schedule every time, but here is the one that was most like a Green/Julius hybrid:
1 oz Simcoe - 15 min boil
1 oz Citra- 5 min boil
1 oz Mosaic - 0 min flameout
1 oz Citra day 3 dry hop
1 oz Galaxy day 3 dry hop
2 oz Citra day 6 dry hop
2 oz Galaxy day 6 dry hop

On another I used just Galaxy/Citra/Azacca in equal parts.
My next iteration will be ABC (Azacca/Bravo/Citra). I'm really digging Azacca for tropical fruit flavors, possibly even more than Galaxy.

Picture: Julius on the left, mine on the right.
I call it "I Like Big Hops (and I Cannot Lie)"

Julius side-by-side.jpg
 
I'm curious on how 007 does in the style. In comparison to the rest (1318, S-04, Conan) how does it perform and throw towards the fruity esters and glycerol levels.
 
Tijuanatovar said:
I'm curious on how 007 does in the style. In comparison to the rest (1318, S-04, Conan) how does it perform and throw towards the fruity esters and glycerol levels.
Click to expand...

In my experience, it does great. It attenuates enough to get my high gravity brew dry enough that it is easy drinking and not cloying (OG 1.074, FG 1.013). It also flocs well (suspended yeast should not be part of the haziness equation).

As far as fruity esters, I don't know how anybody can pick up yeast-derived fruity esters in these beers with so much dominant hops flavor (most of it fruity). Maybe my taste buds are dull, but I suspect people who pick up yeast-derived esters in NEIPAs are actually misinterpreting what they're tasting, and it's actually hop-derived. Either that, or your yeast is kicking out straight up fruit punch in order to be noticeable behind all that in-your-face hops.

But that's just my theory for the day.

Performance-wise, I think WLP007 is a great yeast for these beers and is not at all finicky or high-maintenance like some of these others. It's a workhorse.
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
In my experience, it does great. It attenuates enough to get my high gravity brew dry enough that it is easy drinking and not cloying (OG 1.074, FG 1.013). It also flocs well (suspended yeast should not be part of the haziness equation).

As far as fruity esters, I don't know how anybody can pick up yeast-derived fruity esters in these beers with so much dominant hops flavor (most of it fruity). Maybe my taste buds are dull, but I suspect people who pick up yeast-derived esters in NEIPAs are actually misinterpreting what they're tasting, and it's actually hop-derived. Either that, or your yeast is kicking out straight up fruit punch in order to be noticeable behind all that in-your-face hops.

But that's just my theory for the day.


Performance-wise, I think WLP007 is a great yeast for these beers and is not at all finicky or high-maintenance like some of these others. It's a workhorse.
Click to expand...

Yeah I just did a split batch one on whitbread (safale 04) and one on boddington (1318) and I really can't tell the difference. There's just so much Hop presence. 12 oz in 5g
 
11# golden promise
3# white wheat
1# carapils
1# flaked wheat
6 oz honey malt

Citra/Rakau/Galaxy in that order of percentages
7 oz between 5min and whirlpool
8 oz dry hops (2 as ferm slows and 6 post ferm)
Gigayeast VT

IMG_8801.jpg
 

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