Treehouse Brewing Julius Clone

[Tijuanatovar]

Anyone done any yeast blending? Monkish sent me a message saying they use; 1098/007, so4, Conan and/or 1318... so I'm assuming their blending their ish.

 

[jammin]

really? just tried my first 90-min whirlpool and was looking forward to the results. i've done no whirlpool to 90-min whirlpool now, no kettle hops to hop bursting. I still am on the fence about what gives the ultimate flavor. I have done beers with large whirlpool that have been mediocre to great. I have done beers with no dry hop to massive dry hop that were great. It's hard to make definitive statements comparing different techniques with so many variables it seems. I KNOW that dry-hop only, hop-stand only and hop-bursted beers can all have incredible hop flavor, so that complicates matters if nothing else does!

The way I see the purpose of a hop stand is to utilize the hot/warm wort to expediently extract/dissolve hops oils into solution. It seems that many people have based their process on how long it takes commercial batches to cool assuming that it is optimal. I don't believe this to be true. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to dissolve these oils into solution.

Mark it down that you heard from jammin first

 

[Cavpilot2000]

really? just tried my first 90-min whirlpool and was looking forward to the results. i've done no whirlpool to 90-min whirlpool now, no kettle hops to hop bursting. I still am on the fence about what gives the ultimate flavor. I have done beers with large whirlpool that have been mediocre to great. I have done beers with no dry hop to massive dry hop that were great. It's hard to make definitive statements comparing different techniques with so many variables it seems. I KNOW that dry-hop only, hop-stand only and hop-bursted beers can all have incredible hop flavor, so that complicates matters if nothing else does!

I'm not saying it doesn't do anything, mind you.
It's just extra time and work added to my brew day for a benefit that I haven't found to be unique or notably better than flameout additions that just hang out in the kettle through the chilling process, or early (bio-trans) dry hopping, both of which require zero extra work or time. I love brewday, and it's sacred to me, but I'm not going to add 30, 60, or 90 minutes to it for something that I can't point to as specifically being beneficial to me.

Maybe if your system is automated, and it's a set-it-and-forget-it kind of thing, that might be worthwhile, but for my setup, it's additional hassle.

Also, I have found whirlpooling to add bitterness in a way that can't really be predicted by software, so it's a crapshoot as to how much you are going to get out of it.

But that's just my experience/opinion. YMMV.

 

[elburrogrande]

Anyone done any yeast blending? Monkish sent me a message saying they use; 1098/007, so4, Conan and/or 1318... so I'm assuming their blending their ish.

Ive used 1711/007 successfully in NE IPAs before specially with DIPA where you might want to dry them out

 

[noslenwerd]

I bought into the whole pre-chill too. I think it's BS. Maybe with a select few hop strains, but book ending works fine. What I'd be more interested in is the hop additions prior to KO. Also, take the brulosophy results with a grain of salt.

Not a fan of brulosophy?

 

[bleme]

Yeah, whirlpool hopping is overrated and unnecessary.
Too much trouble with no benefit that can't be gained through simpler methods.

A few years ago when Belma was selling for $5/lb, nearly everyone in my brewclub did a beer featuring Belma. I did a Cascadian Dark with only whirlpool and dryhops and nobody could believe the depth that it produced. It was, by far, the best Belma beer of the year.

 

[stickyfinger]

A few years ago when Belma was selling for $5/lb, nearly everyone in my brewclub did a beer featuring Belma. I did a Cascadian Dark with only whirlpool and dryhops and nobody could believe the depth that it produced. It was, by far, the best Belma beer of the year.

what amounts did u use in each step - whirlpool and dryhop

 

[noslenwerd]

A few years ago when Belma was selling for $5/lb, nearly everyone in my brewclub did a beer featuring Belma. I did a Cascadian Dark with only whirlpool and dryhops and nobody could believe the depth that it produced. It was, by far, the best Belma beer of the year.

interesting.. what type of flavors did you get from belma? I read sometimes you can get berry?

 

[TheHairyHop]

Not a fan of brulosophy?

sampling sizes tend to be way too small to draw conclusions regardless of using statistical tools, and normally involve "p-value hunting" where a wide conclusion is drawn from one statistic. a good example is this

http://brulosophy.com/2017/03/06/hop-comparison-galaxy-vs-mosaic-exbeeriment-results/

where it is concluded people "were not able to reliably distinguish a Galaxy single-hop beer from a similar beer hopped only with Mosaic." but this is heavily interpreting results. if those 17 people could tell one from the other, time and again, then they are indeed reliably distinguishing one from the other. not to mention that the previous experiments showed markedly different flavor wheels from participants.

 

[melville]

Anyone done any yeast blending? Monkish sent me a message saying they use; 1098/007, so4, Conan and/or 1318... so I'm assuming their blending their ish.

Genuinely curious — is that how they typed it out because that sounds like they could use 007, or s04, or Conan, or 1318 — or was that them spelling out the ingredients of their mix?

FYI, having used Tree House harvested yeast, wouldn't surprise me at all if it's more than one strain, almost seems likely.

 

[melville]

Anyone got ideas as to why some NEIPAs can drop super clear?....

The hazy one was a sample pulled at day 7 and the clear one was pulled at day 22nd (12 days on carb).

The thing is, I used zero; finings, wort clarifiers, Irish moss, or wirlfloc. Just 1 tsp of ascorbic acid at 5 mins left in the boil. Conan yeast and about 4 lbs of flaked adjuncts... soooo, how the crap did it drop so damn clear???

Simple answer is Conan clears.

 

[melville]

I'd really love to hear people's opinions on using Galaxy only as an accent dry-hop. I've never had Treehouse's Green, but people are saying that it's "accented" with Galaxy. What other hops are they using? Does anyone know particular ratios of these hops used in dry-hop additions?

It's 80 percent Galaxy. No doubt actually accented by Columbus and Citra? or Amarillo? (one of their faves).

 

[Cavpilot2000]

The haze in NEIPAs in absolutely NOT a function of the yeast.
Period.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

It's 80 percent Galaxy. No doubt actually accented by Columbus and Citra? or Amarillo? (one of their faves).

I did one where the dry hop was all 50/50 Citra/Galaxy and it was very much a Julius/Green hybrid.

 

[melville]

I did one where the dry hop was all 50/50 Citra/Galaxy and it was very much a Julius/Green hybrid.

Since Nate has said Green is 80% Galaxy, it wouldn't surprise if Julius is something similarly high percentages Citra with Columbus (and ?)

 

[Tijuanatovar]

Genuinely curious — is that how they typed it out because that sounds like they could use 007, or s04, or Conan, or 1318 — or was that them spelling out the ingredients of their mix?

FYI, having used Tree House harvested yeast, wouldn't surprise me at all if it's more than one strain, almost seems likely.

Monkish spelled it exactly like that. I'm assuming treehouse is using Conan and something else, maybe SO4? dunno

 

[melville]

The haze in NEIPAs in absolutely NOT a function of the yeast.
Period.

This makes no sense, unless you mean to say the haze isn't merely yeast in suspension. A beer made 1318 with the proper water profile and early dry hop even with no proteins added will still be a perfectly delicious and hazy NEIPA, not true for all yeasts.

 

[Tijuanatovar]

Simple answer is Conan clears.

Does Conan always drop clear?

 

[skibb]

My comment on yeast blending:
I run a small brewery in KY and we have done a lot of yeast blends (mostly for Belgian styles) - they are great for the first one or two batches, but after that some yeasts will out grow/dominate other yeasts and your fermentation flavor profile will migrate fairly quickly. It's not a reliable path, espeically when some of the breweries you all are talking about only brew a small variety of beers/styles.

I would say its very unlikely these breweries are doing yeast blends for their IPAs.

 

[bleme]

Anyone done any yeast blending? Monkish sent me a message saying they use; 1098/007, so4, Conan and/or 1318... so I'm assuming their blending their ish.

I'd be curious to know what question this was an answer to. He could be saying that the brewery chooses one of those yeasts when it makes a beer, not that it throws all of them in every beer.

 

[melville]

My comment on yeast blending:
I run a small brewery in KY and we have done a lot of yeast blends (mostly for Belgian styles) - they are great for the first one or two batches, but after that some yeasts will out grow/dominate other yeasts and your fermentation flavor profile will migrate fairly quickly. It's not a reliable path, espeically when some of the breweries you all are talking about only brew a small variety of beers/styles.

I would say its very unlikely these breweries are doing yeast blends for their IPAs.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRtD88JFtgn/?hl=en
I'm sure this isn't happened in a vacuum, likely learning from another brewery while doing a collaboration, etc.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

This makes no sense, unless you mean to say the haze isn't merely yeast in suspension. A beer made 1318 with the proper water profile and early dry hop even with no proteins added will still be a perfectly delicious and hazy NEIPA, not true for all yeasts.

A properly made NEIPA will be hazy regardless of what yeast is used and whether or not it remains in suspension or flocculates completely out. Therefore, the characteristic haze in the style is NOT the result of yeast in suspension.
Of course, anyone could choose to use a yeast that will remain in suspension, and that will add to the haziness, but the characteristic haze in the style is NOT a result of yeast in suspension.

Does that clear it up (my point, not the beer)?

 

[Tijuanatovar]

I'd be curious to know what question this was an answer to. He could be saying that the brewery chooses one of those yeasts when it makes a beer, not that it throws all of them in every beer.

Wouldn't it make sense for monkish since they're always putting out something different? I just asked what their house yeast is for their hoppy brews.

 

[skibb]

@melville everything I said still stands. I never said some aren't, I just said it's unlikely. That being said, I've haven't heard of that particular brewery but I can see a marketing aspect to it.

I've met and know a few of thse NEIPA brewers personally and none of them use yeast blends for the IPAs. The bigger breweries have to produce these IPAs constantly and consistently - having a shifting flavor with each new yeast generation doesn't fit that business model.

 

[melville]

@melville everything I said still stands. I never said some aren't, I just said it's unlikely. That being said, I've haven't heard of that particular brewery but I can see a marketing aspect to it.

I've met and know a few of thse NEIPA brewers personally and none of them use yeast blends for the IPAs. The bigger breweries have to produce these IPAs constantly and consistently - having a shifting flavor with each new yeast generation doesn't fit that business model.

Totally agree that it's infrequent.

 

[bleme]

what amounts did u use in each step - whirlpool and dryhop

The laptop that recipe was on crashed but I searched on here and finally found that I had posted it over 3 years ago! Isn't the internet awesome? I thought I had whirlpooled cooler than that but I've had a lot of beers since then...

Mash at 154F
6.5 lbs malted wheat
5.5 lbs 2-row
1 lb flaked wheat
1 lb chocolate wheat
.5 lb cara-wheat

All hops added AFTER flame-out and whirlpooled at 191F for 20 minutes. BeerSmith 2 estimates it at 60 IBU's.
1 ounce Centennial
1 ounce Cascade
3 ounces Belma

US-05 yeast

2 ounces Belma as dry hop

In addition to the citrus (from the Cascade and Centennial), there was another fruit in there but I couldn't identify it. Berry and melon are probably the closest, but still not right.

One of the other brewers did a Belma SMaSH and all I got from that was rotten strawberries. It was one of the most unpleasant beers I've tried, so I can see why so many brewers avoid Belma.

 

[melville]

A properly made NEIPA will be hazy regardless of what yeast is used and whether or not it remains in suspension or flocculates completely out. Therefore, the characteristic haze in the style is NOT the result of yeast in suspension.
Of course, anyone could choose to use a yeast that will remain in suspension, and that will add to the haziness, but the characteristic haze in the style is NOT a result of yeast in suspension.

Does that clear it up (my point, not the beer)?

I get your point, but it doesn't make sense, his Conan NEIPA cleared, and this isn't the first Conan NEIPA to clear. I've made unadjuncted NEIPAs with 1318 that are hazier. Yeast selection matters (IMO). If your point is that the OP's NEIPA wasn't properly made and that's why it cleared, I'd still argue that given the exact same process the 1318 would be hazier than the Conan.

 

[Jmash]

Only bottled 1 week but I'm an impatient bastid. Tried it yesterday. Very good. Looks like orange juice. I still would like to give it a sweeter taste though. I'm think maybe some Nelson next time.
Thoughts?

Poland Spring water and following separate additions to mash and to sparge
CaCl 1 tsp
Gypsum 1/2 tsp
Kosher salt 1/8 tsp
Epsom salt 1/4 tsp
32 pin drops lactic acid
PH 5.20
OG 1.067
FG 1.014

Mashed 60 minutes @155
10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 56.6 %
3 lbs 11.7 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 3 21.2 %
1 lbs 2.4 oz Oats, Malted (Thomas Fawcett) (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.5 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.7 %
10.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.6 %
10.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 7 3.6 %
0.50 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 18.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 8.8 IBUs
8.0 oz Turbinado [Boil for 10 min](10.0 SRM) Sugar 10 2.8 %
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool @ 140 degrees ( missed 180. chilled quicker than expected) for 20.0 min Hop 11 24.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool @ 140 degrees for 20 minutes Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 140 degrees for 20 minutes Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg London Ale III (Wyeast Labs #1318) [124.21 ml] Yeast 14 -
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop Day 4
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop Day 4
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop Day 4
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop Day 12
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop Day 12
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop Day 12
Bottled day 14

 

[fatnhappy]

If anybody lives near Charlotte, NC check out Heist brewery. They have a beer called Citraquench'l that is identical to Julius. Stopped there on the way to Huna day and we were blown away. I took one sip and said "it's Julius". Hubby agreed. It's rotating, but worth seeking out. If anyone knows the brewer, I'd like to know more

 

[Tijuanatovar]

If anybody lives near Charlotte, NC check out Heist brewery. They have a beer called Citraquench'l that is identical to Julius. Stopped there on the way to Huna day and we were blown away. I took one sip and said "it's Julius". Hubby agreed. It's rotating, but worth seeking out. If anyone knows the brewer, I'd like to know more

Citraquenchal is bomb.

 

[Tijuanatovar]

Anyone care to share their favorite yeast strain on the style?

 

[melville]

Anyone care to share their favorite yeast strain on the style?

1318. (I'm using RVA Manchester but similar). Reliable. Visuals on point. Soft. Fruity esters, I really don't get why folks use anything else for this style.

 

[leesmith]

1318. (I'm using RVA Manchester but similar). Reliable. Visuals on point. Soft. Fruity esters, I really don't get why folks use anything else for this style.

Is the White Labs WLP038 Manchester Ale the same as the RVA strain?

 

[fatnhappy]

I used Yeast bay Vermont ale. Nice and fruity. Harvested it and about to do a 10 gallon batch. Putting 1318 in one fermenter and the yeast bay in the other

 

[stickyfinger]

I like these yeasts:

WLP095, WY1450, Gigayeast Conan strain - soft, round mouthfeel - attenuates well and reliably - easily obtainable if fresh stock required - no weird flavors ever - works great in other ale styles too

I've used WY1318 maybe 4 times and I haven't liked the beers as well, but it is a great yeast for the style in every way.

Currently cold-crashing a version with WLP002! excited to see how it does!

 

[melville]

Is the White Labs WLP038 Manchester Ale the same as the RVA strain?

It sounds different, based on their description, but I don't really know. RVA Manchester and 1318 are both presumed to be the Boddington's strain, maybe WLP038 is too?

 

[Tijuanatovar]

I've heard some prefer one over the other and it seems that 1318 has the best rapport. Having used several myself, none have jumped out at me. Even using 3711, my saison has a smooth mango tropical flavor. Kinda seems like each yeast can throw some nice fruit? Now I feel like I need to ferment the same wort on diff yeasts. Damnit.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I haven't used 1318 yet, but I keep coming back to WLP007, but I like mine on the drier side anyway.
My last NEDIPA had an OG of 1.074 and finished at 1.012 and is incredibly drinkable at 8%abv.
I guess we all tend to settle with what works for us and stick with it.
That said, since my grain bill is set, with no more need of tweaking, my only variables for my house NEDIPA are yeast and hops, so there will be some experimentation in the future.
I guess my problem is that I like how mine are turning out so much that I don't see much need to change anything except dialing in my hops to lean more citrusy or more tropical or more or less dank for any given batch.

 

[Tijuanatovar]

I haven't used 1318 yet, but I keep coming back to WLP007, but I like mine on the drier side anyway.
My last NEDIPA had an OG of 1.074 and finished at 1.012 and is incredibly drinkable at 8%abv.
I guess we all tend to settle with what works for us and stick with it.
That said, since my grain bill is set, with no more need of tweaking, my only variables for my house NEDIPA are yeast and hops, so there will be some experimentation in the future.
I guess my problem is that I like how mine are turning out so much that I don't see much need to change anything except dialing in my hops to lean more citrusy or more tropical or more or less dank for any given batch.

What temp range does 007 throw the most fruity esters?

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Not sure. With so much fruity hops it's hard to identify what might be coming from the yeast. I'm not really worried about it. I ferment at 70 and know I'll get olenty fruit from the hops (galaxy, Citra, and sometimes another (most recently Azacca).