Traditional German vs. Modern German Dunkel Recipes

[biertourist]

My quest for modern German grists / recipes continues; although there's ton of great information on TRADITIONAL German beer recipes and modern AMERICANIZED interpretations, there's little information on actual modern German grists and recipes for breweries that exist and operate today, I'm hoping someone can help with this a bit.


The traditional German Dunkel recipes are certainly 100% or very near 100% Munich malt (that 8-11 L malt color seems about right) and of course triple decocted with medium to long boils for each decoction.

An ever-so-slightly modernized version that we often see involves a very high % 8-11L Munich malt with a bit of Carafa malt (II or III) added to darken it and maybe a touch of melanoidin if not decocting. -This is what we can reasonably call an "updated traditional, German" grist.



I see tons of modern US interpretations that involve a blend of Munich, Pilsner malt and high color "Munich malts" (20L+) with possible pale chocolate subed out for the Carafa, but what do MODERN, GERMAN dunkel grists actually look like? (Definitely no Crystal or Chocolate, obviously).

Are the modern German breweries blending their Munich with some Pilsner malt -if so are they adding a small quantity of higher L Munich to make up for it? -I'm fully expecting that the FGs are coming down via swapping some Munich for Pilsner much like the traditional Marzen/ Oktoberfest transition to the modern "Festbier"/"tentbier" versions, but there's just ZILCH for reliable information in English on what the modern German brewers are doing.

I'll be honest, I love right where the Hofbrau Dunkel is and I suspect it's got some Pilsner malt in it because it's just not a pure malt bomb...



Anyone got anything?


Adam

 

[Awesome-X]

http://www.ahaconference.org/wp-content/uploads/presentations/2008/SteveHolle_GermanBrewing.pdf

This AHA conference presentation has been one of the best reads I've come across about modern German brewing. I look it over before every German beer brew day. It has three malt bills toward the end (page 43) for Dunkels.

 

[BigEd]

Here's mine. There is a portion of Pils malt (20%) and a touch of Carafa for color adjustment. The Munich malt is Weyermann II

Munich Dunkel
10 Gallons

13.5 lbs Munich malt
3.5 lbs Pilsner malt
.375 lb Carafa II malt
.75 lb CaraFoam malt

Decoction mash; 128F, 148F, 168F mashout

1 oz Spalt + 1 oz Saaz @ 60 minutes
1 oz Spalt @ 20 minutes

Estimated OG 1.050, IBU 24

White Labs WLP-838 Southern German Yeast

 

[biertourist]

Here's mine. There is a portion of Pils malt (20%) and a touch of Carafa for color adjustment. The Munich malt is Weyermann II

Munich Dunkel
10 Gallons

13.5 lbs Munich malt
3.5 lbs Pilsner malt
.375 lb Carafa II malt
.75 lb CaraFoam malt

Decoction mash; 128F, 148F, 168F mashout

1 oz Spalt + 1 oz Saaz @ 60 minutes
1 oz Spalt @ 20 minutes

Estimated OG 1.050, IBU 24

White Labs WLP-838 Southern German Yeast

Great minds think alike!

This is basically where I ended up except with only 15% Pilsner malt and 1 lb of Melanoidin malt as I'm not decocting; no CaraFoam for me.

Adam

 

[gometz]

1 lb of Melanoidin is FAR too much. Maybe 1/4 lb.

 

[biertourist]

1 lb of Melanoidin is FAR too much. Maybe 1/4 lb.

Even in a 10 gallon batch?... Oops!

So far I feel like 12oz was a bit much on the Carafa II as it's definitely more roasty at this point than any actual german dunkel I've come across. Hoping it mellows out after fermentation and lagering.

Maybe I should've used the Gordon Strong method and saved it for the vorlauf / lauter.


Adam

 

[gometz]

1 lb for 10 gallons would be on the high side in my opinion, but shouldn't be too much. I have made a 5 gallon batch with a pound before, it was still drinkable, but by no means great.