thoughts on this recipe

[bigskygreg]

Brewer's Friend Heading Recipe Stats Hops Summary Print
Amber
Added By: bigskygreg
Method: All Grain
Style: American Amber Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.045 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)
Original Gravity: 1.061 Final Gravity: 1.016 ABV (standard): 5.96% IBU (tinseth): 34.39 SRM (morey): 11.45
Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
4 lb German - Munich Light 37 6 30.8%
7 lb Belgian - Pale Ale 38 3.4 53.8%
1 lb American - Victory 34 28 7.7%
0.5 lb Belgian - Biscuit 35 23 3.8%
0.5 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 40L 34 40 3.8%
13 lb Total
Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
1 oz Northern Brewer Leaf/Whole 7.8 Boil 60 min 25.62
0.5 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet 4 Boil 15 min 3.59
0.25 oz Willamette Pellet 4.5 Boil 5 min 0.81
0.5 oz Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet 4 First Wort 4.38
Mash Guidelines
Amount Description Type Temp Time
-- -- 152 F 90 min
Yeast
Wyeast - American Ale II 1272
Attenuation (avg):
74%
Flocculation:
High
Optimum Temp:
60 - 72 °F
Starter:
No
This recipe is not shared.
Last Updated: 2013-10-12 01:04 CDT

ThNKS, GREG

 

[RonPopeil]

i would use a darker crystal malt like C80 or even C120. that should really solidify the caramel idea ambers are known for. i would also switch your 15 minute addition to willamette and your 5 minute to another .5 of willamette.

my suggestions would create a more bold caramel flavor with floral hops late to reinforce the idea of sweetness without being sweet. otherwise you're doing what i would do short of the yeast. mild hops and malty grain bills scream english yeast to me.

 

[bigskygreg]

i would use a darker crystal malt like C80 or even C120. that should really solidify the caramel idea ambers are known for. i would also switch your 15 minute addition to willamette and your 5 minute to another .5 of willamette. my suggestions would create a more bold caramel flavor with floral hops late to reinforce the idea of sweetness without being sweet. otherwise you're doing what i would do short of the yeast. mild hops and malty grain bills scream english yeast to me.

Thanks for the advice. I will change the crystal. What yeast would you suggest? I like wlp007, but was looking to try something I hadn't used before.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Looks more like an Extra Special Bitter than an American Amber. Your yeast and the Willamette is American, but your malt is continental (although traditionally, ESB would use Maris Otter rather then Belgian Pale malt) your hops are continental (not the Willamette, but everything else is continental in orgin, or lineage). I like the suggestion of using an english ale yeast (002 works great), and adding some crystal malt...and calling it an ESB.

 

[RonPopeil]

Thanks for the advice. I will change the crystal. What yeast would you suggest? I like wlp007, but was looking to try something I hadn't used before.

Either would work. If you want to try something different this would be a good time to flirt with other English strains. Just be wary. Most English yeasts are poor attenuators which would move your finishing gravity around 1.020. Your finished beer will be sweeter.

 

[RonPopeil]

Looks more like an Extra Special Bitter than an American Amber. Your yeast and the Willamette is American, but your malt is continental (although traditionally, ESB would use Maris Otter rather then Belgian Pale malt) your hops are continental (not the Willamette, but everything else is continental in orgin, or lineage). I like the suggestion of using an english ale yeast (002 works great), and adding some crystal malt...and calling it an ESB.

i'm not one to get caught on names. Though if I were to make an esb I wouldn't use Munich or biscuit. I would use higher alpha hops late in the boil as well as add some simple sugar to bring the body down.

I guess this brew wouldn't technically fit either style but I can see Munich breadlines working. Could probably call it a brown ale with all the bready malt and crystal grain combined with continental hops.

 

[jbaysurfer]

i'm not one to get caught on names. Though if I were to make an esb I wouldn't use Munich or biscuit. I would use higher alpha hops late in the boil as well as add some simple sugar to bring the body down.

I guess this brew wouldn't technically fit either style but I can see Munich breadlines working. Could probably call it a brown ale with all the bready malt and crystal grain combined with continental hops.

Me neither, except when I'm planning on entering the beer into a competition..then you have to categorize it. I was just answering the OPs question and ESB was a "off the top of my head" thing. I'm still working on that BJCP certification

 

[Bob]

The recipe very clearly says "American Amber Ale". ESB is nowhere even hinted at.

Now that's out of the way, let's talk about American Amber Ale and how this recipe relates to that style. I don't think it does, much. I was going to send you to the relevant page on the HBT Wiki for AAA, but the Wiki appears to be broken. Anyway, go there and search. I wrote that description some time ago, but the history of what makes AAA is very useful.

What pale malt you use doesn't matter. I mean, it's American Amber Ale, so North American ingredients are of course desired. But if you have Belgian pale malt, just use it. Maris Otter is out of place in AAA. So is Munich malt in that proportion, and Biscuit isn't appropriate at all. Maybe 10% or so Munich, no more.

One of the hallmarks of AAA is a broad spectrum of caramel-malt flavors. Caramel malts of at least two types for a total proportion approaching 20% of the grist is right on the money. I think a blend of 60-70% 40L and 30-40% 80L is very nice indeed, and a touch of 120L adds a certain depth of character.

Now, hops. AAA must have American varieties dominant. I'd save the Hersbrucker for another beer and Willamette the hell out of this recipe. I <3 Willamette with big sparkly unicorns. That said, it isn't as overtly American as the "C" hops, but I'm so farking sick of citrusy "C" hops I use Willamette just to spite them.

Use a clean-fermenting American ale yeast like S-05 or liquid equivalent.

TL;DR: The two dominant characteristics of American Amber Ale are caramel/crystal malt and American hops. Let those characteristics shine.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[jbaysurfer]

The recipe very clearly says "American Amber Ale". ESB is nowhere even hinted at.

Now that's out of the way, let's talk about American Amber Ale and how this recipe relates to that style. I don't think it does, much. I was going to send you to the relevant page on the HBT Wiki for AAA, but the Wiki appears to be broken. Anyway, go there and search. I wrote that description some time ago, but the history of what makes AAA is very useful.

What pale malt you use doesn't matter. I mean, it's American Amber Ale, so North American ingredients are of course desired. But if you have Belgian pale malt, just use it. Maris Otter is out of place in AAA. So is Munich malt in that proportion, and Biscuit isn't appropriate at all. Maybe 10% or so Munich, no more.

One of the hallmarks of AAA is a broad spectrum of caramel-malt flavors. Caramel malts of at least two types for a total proportion approaching 20% of the grist is right on the money. I think a blend of 60-70% 40L and 30-40% 80L is very nice indeed, and a touch of 120L adds a certain depth of character.

Now, hops. AAA must have American varieties dominant. I'd save the Hersbrucker for another beer and Willamette the hell out of this recipe. I <3 Willamette with big sparkly unicorns. That said, it isn't as overtly American as the "C" hops, but I'm so farking sick of citrusy "C" hops I use Willamette just to spite them.

Use a clean-fermenting American ale yeast like S-05 or liquid equivalent.

TL;DR: The two dominant characteristics of American Amber Ale are caramel/crystal malt and American hops. Let those characteristics shine.

Cheers,

Bob

LOL! WTF is going on here. I feel like I'm in a bizarro world. OP says, "Thoughts on this recipe" then gives a recipe labeled American Amber Ale that looks more similar to another style (to me) then it did American Amber Ale. I tell him what I think and the next thing is people arguing with me about what my thoughts.

Now that that's settled, Bob, your 2nd paragraph is basically a restatement of what I was thinking (if that helps clarify at all). OP didn't ask "how to make an American Amber Ale", so I kinda figured this was one of those "use up the grains I have on hand" recipes, and just thought he should reconsider what style it was. FWIW, I volunteer that I'm not BJCP recognized (yet! working sitting for the examine next month and already got my provisional) and therefore, maybe I didn't suggest the most appropriate style for the recipe. I have been known to make mistakes.

Anyway, respect and cheers! Bob's got you covered OP, this is my cue.

 

[Bob]

Um...I wasn't intending to argue with you. I don't know what's going on inside your head. I was simply trying to clear up what looked like a bit of confusion, that's all. Then I addressed the OP by discussing what AAA is supposed to be like. The OP asked for "thoughts on this recipe", posting a recipe labeled American Amber Ale. Those are my thoughts. He can take them or leave them alone.

Frankly, I think his recipe as written will make a damned fine beer. It's not what I'd call American Amber Ale, except perhaps in color, but it'll still be a damned fine beer. I just figured if we were going to talk about style, let's at least talk about the recipe in the style he listed, you dig?

Oh, and Willamette is a Fuggles cultivar, so there.

I didn't mean to get into a pissing contest. I'm sorry I apparently caused one, and I'm sorry for upsetting you.

Bob

 

[jbaysurfer]

Um...I wasn't intending to argue with you. I don't know what's going on inside your head.

LOL..I wouldn't go there if I were you. It's confusing place.
But for clarity: Often these recipes come about because a brewer had one finite set of ingredients he/she was trying to use up...so I figured I'd get him closer on style then the one he listed.

Your advice was all good advice for making a AAA if that's what the OP was dead set on. I think we'll all agree that he merely listed a recipe and said: Thoughts?-which is pretty open ended.

I was simply trying to clear up what looked like a bit of confusion, that's all. Then I addressed the OP by discussing what AAA is supposed to be like. The OP asked for "thoughts on this recipe", posting a recipe labeled American Amber Ale. Those are my thoughts. He can take them or leave them alone.

Frankly, I think his recipe as written will make a damned fine beer. It's not what I'd call American Amber Ale, except perhaps in color, but it'll still be a damned fine beer. I just figured if we were going to talk about style, let's at least talk about the recipe in the style he listed, you dig?

Oh, and Willamette is a Fuggles cultivar, so there.

I didn't mean to get into a pissing contest. I'm sorry I apparently caused one, and I'm sorry for upsetting you.

Bob

I didn't either Bob, I'm going to just chalk this up to misunderstanding. I didn't have a problem with his recipe either, just thought out loud that I'd call it something other then an AAA.

FWIW I wasn't upset, merely trying to clarify where my post/thoughts came from since the thread was going sideways over the mention of ESB. I included hints, like "LOL" "respect and cheers" but you know, the internet is just prone to these sorts of misunderstandings I guess.

 

[Yooper]

The recipe very clearly says "American Amber Ale". ESB is nowhere even hinted at.

Now that's out of the way, let's talk about American Amber Ale and how this recipe relates to that style. I don't think it does, much. I was going to send you to the relevant page on the HBT Wiki for AAA, but the Wiki appears to be broken. Anyway, go there and search. I wrote that description some time ago, but the history of what makes AAA is very useful.

What pale malt you use doesn't matter. I mean, it's American Amber Ale, so North American ingredients are of course desired. But if you have Belgian pale malt, just use it. Maris Otter is out of place in AAA. So is Munich malt in that proportion, and Biscuit isn't appropriate at all. Maybe 10% or so Munich, no more.

One of the hallmarks of AAA is a broad spectrum of caramel-malt flavors. Caramel malts of at least two types for a total proportion approaching 20% of the grist is right on the money. I think a blend of 60-70% 40L and 30-40% 80L is very nice indeed, and a touch of 120L adds a certain depth of character.

Now, hops. AAA must have American varieties dominant. I'd save the Hersbrucker for another beer and Willamette the hell out of this recipe. I <3 Willamette with big sparkly unicorns. That said, it isn't as overtly American as the "C" hops, but I'm so farking sick of citrusy "C" hops I use Willamette just to spite them.

Use a clean-fermenting American ale yeast like S-05 or liquid equivalent.

TL;DR: The two dominant characteristics of American Amber Ale are caramel/crystal malt and American hops. Let those characteristics shine.

Cheers,

Bob

That's what I was thinking when I read the recipe. One of the things I LOVE about American amber is that rich deep caramel flavor with enough hops to make it balanced beautifully (ie, not sweet!). I love even 15% caramel malt, when hopped appropriately, but never had the guts to go up to 20%.

Bob "wrote the book" on that style, and I think it's solid advice. But I still love my citrusy hops in an AAA. :cross:

I like willamette and cascade together, ala Bell's Amber. Great combo, as the citrus is understated with the willamette being the dominant flavor I pick up.

 

[bigskygreg]

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I am still pretty new and learning a lot. I didn't mean for this recipe to be a strict interpretation of style and I shouldn't have labeled the recipe as an American Amber. I'm still learning my brew software (as you can tell by the boil amount listed in the recipe). I was really wanting feedback on thoughts of the proposed combination of ingredients and how they work (or don't) together.

However, the lively discussion really has helped me understand a lot about creating recipes. I definitely have a lot of learning to do and this forum has been instrumental in my brewing successes.

Cheers!

 

[Bob]

I love even 15% caramel malt, when hopped appropriately, but never had the guts to go up to 20%.

I was on something when I wrote that. :/ 20% is too high, unless you're going to hop the dog-snot out of it, which ruins it. 15%, tops.

Bob "wrote the book" on that style, and I think it's solid advice. But I still love my citrusy hops in an AAA. :cross:

...which goes to show that even the famous Yooper can be wrong.

[ducks]

Seriously, you're right - the "C" hops are absolutely de rigeur in AAA. It must be clearly, obviously, and without question MURRIKA.

Yooper knows why, but I hear voices crying the wilderness, "Why, Bob? Why?" Simple. Because in the early days of the American craft-beer movement - we're talking late 1970s, here - there really were no American styles other than pale lagery things like Bud and Genny 12-Horse. So the Yank small brewers did their best to copy classic European beers. AAA comes from those pioneers trying to brew a British Pale Ale, but with less-expensive, locally-sourced ingredients. AAA and APA recipes will look - should look - exactly the same as ESB and BPA, 1:1 subbed with American ingredients.

You dig?

Greg, I'm glad you learned something. That's the key to having fun in this hobby - learning stuff. I still do it!

Bob