Thoughts on Dubbel recipe

[jarhody]

I'm going to brew my first Dubbel and would welcome any feedback on the recipe. Only my 4th AG batch...not sure on mash temp. I have been getting efficiency in the 80% range. I'm a fan Dragonmead's Dubbel if that helps although I'm not trying to clone it.

OG 1.067
FG 1.017
ABV 6.6%
IBU 15.8
SRM 16.8

5.5 Gal batch

10.0 lb. Pilsner malt
1.0 lb. Belgium Caramunich
0.5 lb Belgium Special B
0.5 lb. Belgium aromatic
.75 Belgium sugar Amber

Mash around 152

Hops
1.0oz Hallertau 60min
1.0oz Saaz 5min

Yeast
Wyeast 1214 activator pack

7-10 days primary, 4-6 weeks secondary, 2-4 weeks bottle condition.

 

[Rambleon]

I mash at 149 for my Dubbels. I also do a 90 minute mash to ensure full conversion at that low a temp. Let it ferment until it's done. Dont worry about a set schedule for primary/secondary. Also, if in we're you I'd swap out the amber sugar for plain table sugar. It contributes far less than you'd imagine and is much more expensive. Let us know how it turns out!

 

[jarhody]

Rambleon - thanks for the tips. I will take your advice on the mash temp/time. About the sugar will the swap out effect the color?

 

[smizak]

IMO, you must have the dark candi syrup. The flavor is fantastic and is near impossible to replicate with specialty malts. I use 3/4lb of that in my dubbels, no other sugar additions, and they are well received. Your recipe looks good otherwise!

 

[jarhody]

Smizak - thanks I'm big on sweetness in my Dubbels so I think I'll try the syrup. I have only used candi in the past. When should I add the syrup?

 

[paraordnance]

I would ditch a 5 min Saaz addition. Hop aroma is inappropriate in dubbels. Its just a waste of hops really since hop aroma will be long gone if you plan to age it for few months.
And yes, get you hands on D2 or D-180 syrup. Use whole pound you will not regret it. I tried to make my own candy syrup but its nowhere close to commercial examples. I tasted them side by side and in finished beer. Huge difference.
Everything also looks great. You recipe almost identical to my favorite dubbel I brew regularly now. I use 3787 however.

 

[paraordnance]

Smizak - thanks I'm big on sweetness in my Dubbels so I think I'll try the syrup. I have only used candi in the past. When should I add the syrup?

You can add it in boil or during fermentation. I prefer second method. This way yeast doesn't start at high gravity and will take it drier.

 

[jarhody]

You can add it in boil or during fermentation. I prefer second method. This way yeast doesn't start at high gravity and will take it drier.

thanks, if I add to fermentation...when? Sterilization?

 

[jarhody]

Any other opinions on the late hop addition?

 

[smizak]

I second removing the late hop addition. Dubbels are all about the malt and yeast/alcohol aromatics, you don't want any hop. I always add the syrup to the boil, never had trouble geting upper single digit F.G.

 

[jarhody]

Out with the late addition! I'll go back to the calculator and check how the recipe looks with the suggested changes...think I'm going brew this weekend.

 

[jarhody]

Ok, I made some changes to the original recipe based on suggestions

Mash at 149 for 90 min
Reduced Saaz to .5oz and move to 60 min mark

My calculator says if I swap out the Amber sugar for D2 the SRM goes out of the Dubbel style range. Now I'm not entering any contests or anything...should I go for the D2 and disregard the style rules?

 

[smizak]

Ok, I made some changes to the original recipe based on suggestions

Mash at 149 for 90 min
Reduced Saaz to .5oz and move to 60 min mark

My calculator says if I swap out the Amber sugar for D2 the SRM goes out of the Dubbel style range. Now I'm not entering any contests or anything...should I go for the D2 and disregard the style rules?

Yes. FWIW, my Dubbel has won multiple medals and Beersmith calculates the SRM as slightly too dark. Go for it!

 

[jarhody]

Smizak - Awesomes...I'll go for dark then!

 

[Rambleon]

+1 on the syrup. You can't get that flavor anywhere else. And to hell with the guidelines! Homebrewing is about originality and experimentation. I think you'll have one tasty beer there.

 

[jarhody]

Well I hit the HB shop and ended up with this. They didn't have D2 (or know what it was) and no 1214 so I opted for the 3787 (thx paraordnance)

OG 1.068
FG 1.017
ABV 6.7%
IBU 19.3
SRM 16.5

Grain bill
10.0 lb. Belgium Pilsner malt
1.0 lb. Belgium Caramunich
0.5 lb Belgium Special B
0.5 lb. Belgium aromatic
1.0 lb. Belgium Candi Syrup Amber D45

Mash around 149 for 90

Hops
1.0 Hallertau 60min
.5 Saaz 60min

Yeast
Wyeast 3787 activator pack

Brewing Sunday...I'll post results as they develop

 

[signpost]

Personally, I like some spicier hops as late additions in my dubbel. I also like the spicyness of the Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes yeast. I did some late additions of Styrian Goldings in a recent batch, and the spicy character of those hops plays really well with the spicyness of the yeast.

I added the candi syrup after a couple days of fermentation. From what I've read, and what I've noticed so far from this batch (it's only been in bottles for a little over a week), adding the candi syrup after the fermentation had started to slow down just a tad left a beer that didn't have any 'hot' alcohol flavor that needed to mellow out. If I have this right, adding the syrup in the boil (or at flameout) means the yeast is going to mostly chew up the sugar first, before going for the malt sugars. That results in 'higher alcohols' that need time to mellow out. I opened one after just a week in the bottle and there is plenty of alcohol, but it doesn't hit you in the face.

 

[paraordnance]

thanks, if I add to fermentation...when? Sterilization?

Last time I just simmered (around 170F) my D2 with a cup of water for approx. 15 min, chill to room temp and dump in fermenter. Worked great.

 

[paraordnance]

Ok, I made some changes to the original recipe based on suggestions

Mash at 149 for 90 min
Reduced Saaz to .5oz and move to 60 min mark

My calculator says if I swap out the Amber sugar for D2 the SRM goes out of the Dubbel style range. Now I'm not entering any contests or anything...should I go for the D2 and disregard the style rules?

Disregard it. It will be slightly darker but who cares if its going to taste amazing. Its on a darker side but I'm still will be entering my dubbel when it will be in prime couple months down the road.

 

[paraordnance]

Personally, I like some spicier hops as late additions in my dubbel. I also like the spicyness of the Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes yeast. I did some late additions of Styrian Goldings in a recent batch, and the spicy character of those hops plays really well with the spicyness of the yeast.

I added the candi syrup after a couple days of fermentation. From what I've read, and what I've noticed so far from this batch (it's only been in bottles for a little over a week), adding the candi syrup after the fermentation had started to slow down just a tad left a beer that didn't have any 'hot' alcohol flavor that needed to mellow out. If I have this right, adding the syrup in the boil (or at flameout) means the yeast is going to mostly chew up the sugar first, before going for the malt sugars. That results in 'higher alcohols' that need time to mellow out. I opened one after just a week in the bottle and there is plenty of alcohol, but it doesn't hit you in the face.

Last year I brewed tripel and dubbel with 3522 Ardenes yeast and I was not fan at all. Its too plain and boring for this style. It has slight tartness and seems one dimensional. This time I used 3787 and both tripel and dubbel are much better.

 

[signpost]

Last year I brewed tripel and dubbel with 3522 Ardenes yeast and I was not fan at all. Its too plain and boring for this style. It has slight tartness and seems one dimensional. This time I used 3787 and both tripel and dubbel are much better.

Different strokes, I guess.

 

[jarhody]

Brew day was yesterday. Everything went smooth. Missed gravity by a point. Airlock is rockin' this morning. I keep posted how this turns out. Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[BigRedHopHead]

Let the fermentation temp ramp up if you can. If you don't have a temp controller with heater then try moving the fermenter to warmer parts of the house during the primary. This will help the yeast to attenuate fully and develop those classic belgian esters. Check the upper temp range limit for your yeast and see if you can get it there by the end of the first week and hold it there for another week.

 

[jarhody]

Woke at 3am to pee and I heard a hissing....kreusen coming out of the airlock...bucket top ready to blow! New requirement for Belgium's...blow off tube! Jerry rigged one for the moment.

 

[paraordnance]

Woke at 3am to pee and I heard a hissing....kreusen coming out of the airlock...bucket top ready to blow! New requirement for Belgium's...blow off tube! Jerry rigged one for the moment.

It almost makes me cry seeing how you brave guys have fermenting buckets sitting on carpets

 

[jarhody]

It almost makes me cry seeing how you brave guys have fermenting buckets sitting on carpets

Somethings u just have to learn the hard way!

 

[travis0123]

How is it coming along?

 

[jarhody]

Racked to secondary today. FG hit 1.009. I wasn't expecting that. The sample sure was tasty...a little sweet but, I think that will mellow with some aging.

 

[travis0123]

That's about where the f.g.'s are with my dubbels. I use 10 lbs pilsner, .75lbs caramunich, .25lbs special b, and 1lb biscuit. 1 lb of dark candi i make in a cast iron dutch oven. Also, Wlp 500 seems to make the best flavor to me. Just thought i'd share.

 

[jarhody]

@travis0123 - thanks...I'll see how this batch comes out and make some adjustments next time around. Dubbels are one of my favorite so this will be in the rotation for sure.

I always hate it when my beer is higher ABV than expected...NOT! The calc I use said 7.7%... high for a dubbel....I'll let ya know how it turns out.

 

[travis0123]

Sounds like a plan.

 

[jarhody]

What temp should I store the secondary @?

What about storing bottles (temp)?

 

[travis0123]

Should keep it the same as primary for dubbels as far as I'm concerned. Unless you taste it and feel a different temp will give you a flavor your looking for. Bottling is done at room temp as always. Store long term at temp you would likely serve it.

 

[jarhody]

Any opinions on how long I should leave this in the secondary (B4 bottling)?

Also I have been reading a lot about yeast additions at bottling time and it being a staple of the style. I was thinking about trying this and getting some 750ml bottles to condition....thoughts/advice?

 

[signpost]

Unless you leave it in secondary for months on end, I don't think there is any need to add yeast. At least not based on my experience.

 

[smizak]

Any opinions on how long I should leave this in the secondary (B4 bottling)?

My opinion? Zero days, zero hours, zero minutes. Just let settle out in primary and rack carefully.

 

[jarhody]

My opinion? Zero days, zero hours, zero minutes. Just let settle out in primary and rack carefully.

For this batch it is too late....already in secondary . I have heard much debate over secondary vs not...I guess I just have followed what I learned in the beginning. I'll have to try a batch without a secondary and compare. From what I have read a secondary increases the odds of a clearer, cleaner beer (at the risk of contamination).

 

[smizak]

From what I have read a secondary increases the odds of a clearer, cleaner beer (at the risk of contamination).

And oxidation, which IMO is a bigger problem with homebrews than contamination. It may be clearer but if you can get your fermenter cold, a cold crash in primary will do just as well, without the hassle of racking to another vessel and waiting for the yeast to drop. I routinely get just a dusting of yeast in my bottles if I cold crash and carefully rack to the bottling vessel.

 

[jarhody]

Smizak - sounds good I'm going to try some batches w/o secondary - I just need to figure out how I'm going to cold crash...no basement, no fridge.

 

[travis0123]

Racking to a secondary fermentor is too common practice to be a issue. The wort is still fermenting ( eating o2, crapping co2) in secondary if done as directed in most kits; so, oxidation shouldn't be an issue as long as it was transfered "nicely."
Let it sit as long as you can stand it i suppose! Cold crashing is a shortcut to a long secondary for clarity in some yeast cases; and clarity is only important to those who feel they need it. Most of my brews are dubbels and i do them to a level that fits my style.