Thoughts/critiques on my first all-grain recipe

[8dannyB2]

I want to start all grain brewing as well as creating my own recipes. Had an idea for a caramel/toffee brown ale. Here's what I have for a preliminary recipe.
5gal batch
Grain bill:
8# marris otter
1# carastan (light)
1# crystal 60
.5# crystal 20
.5# English brown malt
.5# chocolate
.5# carafoam

1.5oz kent holdings 60min.

 

[TallDan]

I want to start all grain brewing as well as creating my own recipes.

My suggestion is to choose either creating your own recipes or all grain brewing.

Similar to you, I decided after a few extract kits to go all grain and create my own recipes a few months ago. The first couple batches were good, but not great. I took some different recipes for a style, adjusted a few things, and went for it. Then i decided to try Denny Conn's Rye IPA recipe, without changing a thing and it came out great. Did another batch or a recipe posted here, similarly great.

When you're doing your first few all-grain batches, you're learning a new process on new equipment. Having a known good recipe will let you focus on how to brew all-grain and if you don't like the beer you won't wonder if it was the process or the recipe.

Of course, you should brew what you want, I'm pretty sure i would have tinkered with those first few recipes even if someone advised me not to. No matter what you do, have fun with it!

 

[Epimetheus]

-- glah! another double post --

 

[Epimetheus]

IMO, it is better to use simple grain bills when beginning AG.

When I started AG, I began with very simple, reliable 2- or 3- grain recipes that let me focus on the mash temp and process rather than what the heck it might taste like. The recipe section has many such recipes. You may have done many extract brews and know what to expect.

My first AG English brown ale used only Maris Otter and #60 crystal malt, and some Fuggles at 30 minutes and some more later. It was quite pleasant.

 

[Epimetheus]

--delete double post --

 

[8dannyB2]

I have done a few mini mash brews, so I'm fairly familiar with the process. I've also done a ton of reading and research on all grain brewing. So I feel confident in my ability to do it. I appreciate your sentiments for easing my way into the world of all grain brewing and recipe formulating, but at some point I've got to break into it. Considering I have some familiarity with the process, why not now?

 

[chickypad]

I'd say if you want to get into recipe formulation go for it, it's fun.
I notice you're at 25% total crystal malts which I would consider a bit high. At least I don't think you need the carafoam with the rest of the 2.5 lbs of crystal, personally I'd swap that out for base malt. I do like using a couple different lovibond crystals, though, for more complexity in something like this. If you want more toffee you may consider swapping one of the lighter crystals for something darker. I think you could get a nice roasty brown out of this.

 

[8dannyB2]

I'd say if you want to get into recipe formulation go for it, it's fun.
I notice you're at 25% total crystal malts which I would consider a bit high. At least I don't think you need the carafoam with the rest of the 2.5 lbs of crystal, personally I'd swap that out for base malt. I do like using a couple different lovibond crystals, though, for more complexity in something like this. If you want more toffee you may consider swapping one of the lighter crystals for something darker. I think you could get a nice roasty brown out of this.

Taking consideration of the comments, here's a "second draft":

7# marris otter
2# Vienna caramel base malt
1# carastan (light)
.75-1# brown malt
.5# chocolate
.5# crystal 60
.25# roasted barley
1oz fuggles 60 min
1oz glacier 30 min
.5oz fuggles 15 min.

 

[Bob]

Still way too much caramel/crystal malt. Do not exceed 15% until you know what they'll bring to the table. Approach 20% at your peril; 15% of the grist should be your upper limit. You're at 28%. Cut the Carastan; you don't need it. Reduce the Caravienne by half. That'll get you to 15%.

I like your roasted-malt mix. Yum!

With the reductions in crystal/caramel malts I specify, this will be a really nice Brown Ale of which you can be righteously proud. Insist on all that caramalt, however, and you'll have a cloyingly sweet mess.

Good luck!

Bob

 

[8dannyB2]

Still way too much caramel/crystal malt. Do not exceed 15% until you know what they'll bring to the table. Approach 20% at your peril; 15% of the grist should be your upper limit. You're at 28%. Cut the Carastan; you don't need it. Reduce the Caravienne by half. That'll get you to 15%.

I like your roasted-malt mix. Yum!

With the reductions in crystal/caramel malts I specify, this will be a really nice Brown Ale of which you can be righteously proud. Insist on all that caramalt, however, and you'll have a cloyingly sweet mess.

Good luck!

Bob

Bob
Thanks for the advice!!! I'll definitely do as you suggested. But a quick question, I was under the impression that the Vienna was a base malt and not a crystal malt. Not true?

 

[8dannyB2]

Thinking the Vienna was the reason I had the other crystal malts in there. I thought I only had a pound and a half of the crystal.

 

[Bob]

The Vienna you list is not Vienna Malt. The "Cara" in the name gives that away. Using a proportion of Vienna or Munich malt - not Caramunich or Caravienne - will make your brown ale very tasty indeed.

Bob

 

[8dannyB2]

The Vienna you list is not Vienna Malt. The "Cara" in the name gives that away. Using a proportion of Vienna or Munich malt - not Caramunich or Caravienne - will make your brown ale very tasty indeed.

Bob

Bob you are the man! Thank you sir. Sounds awesome I appreciate the advice!!!

 

[chickypad]

One other thing I would mention. In the original you had 4% brown malt and 4% chocolate. In the revised one you've gone to 8% brown and 6% dark roasted malt (chocolate + roasted barley). That will likely push it more into brown porter range, in fact the percentages look not dissimilar to a brown porter I have on tap now. Not saying it's bad, I'm actually loving the brown porter and wish I'd made a larger batch, but it may be a bit more roasty than you were looking for initially.

BTW, have you run it through software for the specs (OG, IBU) and what yeast are you going to use?

 

[8dannyB2]

One other thing I would mention. In the original you had 4% brown malt and 4% chocolate. In the revised one you've gone to 8% brown and 6% dark roasted malt (chocolate + roasted barley). That will likely push it more into brown porter range, in fact the percentages look not dissimilar to a brown porter I have on tap now. Not saying it's bad, I'm actually loving the brown porter and wish I'd made a larger batch, but it may be a bit more roasty than you were looking for initially.

BTW, have you run it through software for the specs (OG, IBU) and what yeast are you going to use?

I increased the chocolate and roasted barley a bit trying to balance out the sweetness I had going on from the crystal malt.
Right now my my estimated numbers (for the second draft) are:
1.062 OG, 31 IBUs, 5.9% ABV

 

[RonPopeil]

taking your last full recipe i changed this into how i would go about it.

7# marris otter
3# Munich 10
.5# chocolate
.5# crystal 60
.5# crystal 80
.25# roasted barley
1oz fuggles 60 min
1oz glacier 30 min
.5oz fuggles 15 min.

if you mash in 150-152F, and ferment with a well attenuating yeast i think you'll be happy.

i haven't put this into any software but i'm guessing 70% efficiency you should be able to get around 1.050 - 1.052 and finish at about 1.018 if things go well. nice little mild.

 

[Bob]

While I wouldn't call it a "nice little mild," because it's neither, I think Ron's revised recipe is solid. Solidly malty and roasty-toasty with English hops in the background.

I'd mash closer to 150F than anything, hoping to get all the malt flavors I want without ending up with too thick a beer after the ferment. Finishing at 1.018 - 1.020 makes a satisfying, tasty beer. But the thing I look for in a beer is what the late, great beer writer Michael Jackson called "more-ish". It should leave you wanting another.

Brewtarget tells me to expect 1.062 at 70% efficiency.

Good luck!

Bob

P.S. To allay any confusion about "mild", this is about twice as strong a beer as Mild should be. If we were discussing the "mild ales" of the mid-19th century I'd agree, but we're not.