The Big Three should die

[jensek]

In other words, don't get in a battle of wits with an unarmed man...

Or a Sicilian when death is on the line.

 

[SEndorf]

I was very upset when Luca Brasi slept with the fishes..

 

[GrogNerd]

Interesting article about the impact of "selling out" as a small brewery

best takeaway from the article has to go to the name of Goose Island's former brewer: Brett Porter

is that the greatest ****ing name for a brewer, or what?

http://www.seriouseats.com/2016/08/craft-brewery-acquisition-pros-and-cons.html

 

[Nomofett]

To me it's not what it allows formerly small breweries to do, it's what it stops others from doing, or rather what their parent companies stop others from doing.
It seems odd to support companies that are against what you are against. These are the companies that kept home brewing illegal for so many years and would do away with it now if they could.

 

[Paps]

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-88720037/

 

[jjeffers09]

I am going to stay in the line of fire for this thread for a long long time aren't I...

Vizzini: INCONCEIVABLE!

 

[DevilNuts]

Queue "What does SWMBO mean" thread in....3...2...1....

I've made that thread in the past, and just had to google it again because I forgot.

 

[ruger988]

Interesting article about the impact of "selling out" as a small brewery

best takeaway from the article has to go to the name of Goose Island's former brewer: Brett Porter

is that the greatest ****ing name for a brewer, or what?

http://www.seriouseats.com/2016/08/craft-brewery-acquisition-pros-and-cons.html

Brett was at the VA Craft Brewer's fest at DBB last weekend. Gave a big talk to all the brewers Saturday morning about the BCBS issues at Goose Island last year. Had the chance to talk to him one on one Friday night as well, awesome guy.

He pretty much offered anything and everything within Goose Island's power to help out small breweries as long as they're willing to ask for the help when they need it. If Jason and the rest of the guys at DBB weren't enough to make me OK with everything AB is doing, Brett sure as hell was.

F*** the haters, AB isn't "destroying craft beer' by any means, they're helping it.

 

[Nomofett]

If Jason and the rest of the guys at DBB weren't enough to make me OK with everything AB is doing, Brett sure as hell was.

yeah, most people making bank and getting the advantages of a huge multi billion dollar corporation are ok with them giving them money.

Whenever someone's argument against you ends with "F you" then you know you are arguing against an intelligent, well reasoned adult. Thank you for keeping things civil (not sure if these forums will show my sarcasm font properly)
But I would suggest you read previous posts about distribution, lobbying, etc... that the big guys do to stop craft breweries.
I live in a country where craft brewing has been extremely hard to get off the ground because of laws that the big guys made. Where home brewing is illegal because of them.
Seriously, educate yourself, learn to talk like an adult instead of just throwing profanities at people who dare disagree with you, and then you can come back and join the rest of the adults in this conversation.

 

[GrogNerd]

I don't know where you got the idea homebrewing is illegal in this country, all 50 states and The District. If it's illegal in your parts, take that up with your governing authorities

Mr Porter gets to spend the rest of his days doing what he wants to further the craft of brewing. ABI is funding that and the best part is I get to enjoy a tasty BCBS when it rolls around

Guess I have ABI to thank for that

 

[Nomofett]

I didn't say it's illegal in America. Not everyone on the internet lives in America

Yeah, you do have ABI to thank for that because BCBS didn't exist before them... wait....

You also have a smaller selection than would be there, messed up distribution rules, and lack of some hops by your favorite local brewery to thank them for. (Among other things)

 

[Nomofett]

Oh and I'd love to take it up with my governing authority, but governing authorities tend to listen more to multinational multi-billion dollar corporations rather than the little guy. Weird eh?
(Kind of the heart of the problem)
That's also why it was extremely difficult, pretty much impossible, to start a craft brewery here until recently

 

[ruger988]

I didn't say it's illegal in America. Not everyone on the internet lives in America

Yeah, you do have ABI to thank for that because BCBS didn't exist before them... wait....

You also have a smaller selection than would be there, messed up distribution rules, and lack of some hops by your favorite local brewery to thank them for. (Among other things)

You don't like AB, we get it. Some of us have the ability to see the benefits of big money/influence getting into the hobby that we all love so much. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Pretty simple math.

Brett Porter, and the rest of ABI is more than willing, able, and happy to help even the smallest brewery out there get ahead, if that's not goo enough for you... I dunno what you want.

I repeat, fu** the haters (notice, that's not a fu** YOU), because well... that's how I feel, don't like it? Bye.

 

[Nomofett]

I don't buy it, but I also realize the effects it has in the industry as well. It's pretty simple math to see that.
I really hate the argument of "you don't like it? Don't buy it" things don't exist in a vacumn, things affect other things.

And no, they are not willing to help the smallest brewery get ahead, you can't be serious right? That's their competition, that's not the way markets work. Their goal is to crush the small breweries. Do you seriously not know that? Please refer back to my previous post and educate yourself.

And yeah f the haters is a f you, because you think I am a hater (I don't call myself one because I am not Taylor Swift) so play your stupid word games and try to absolve yourself but you are saying F you, don't play stupid.
And yeah, I know that's how you feel, like a child yelling out with pure emotion against people who disagree with you, we've covered this already. That's why I suggested you learn to control your emotions and act civil because some of us want an adult conversation rather than just spouting profanities against those who disagree with us.

Thanks.

 

[Nomofett]

Btw: what are the benefits of that big money on our hobby? Because our hobby is illegal where I live because of that big money. So please expand (or just say FU again and run away)

 

[ruger988]

I don't buy it, but I also realize the effects it has in the industry as well. It's pretty simple math to see that.
I really hate the argument of "you don't like it? Don't buy it" things don't exist in a vacumn, things affect other things.

And no, they are not willing to help the smallest brewery get ahead, you can't be serious right? That's their competition, that's not the way markets work. Their goal is to crush the small breweries. Do you seriously not know that? Please refer back to my previous post and educate yourself.

And yeah f the haters is a f you, because you think I am a hater (I don't call myself one because I am not Taylor Swift) so play your stupid word games and try to absolve yourself but you are saying F you, don't play stupid.
And yeah, I know that's how you feel, like a child yelling out with pure emotion against people who disagree with you, we've covered this already. That's why I suggested you learn to control your emotions and act civil because some of us want an adult conversation rather than just spouting profanities against those who disagree with us.

Thanks.

Btw: what are the benefits of that big money on our hobby? Because our hobby is illegal where I live because of that big money. So please expand (or just say FU again and run away)

I'm not running from anything, I'll be here to argue as long as you'd like.

I am currently planning a small brewery and have had an unbelievable amount of help and support from Devil's Backbone, especially since the AB acquisition. AB has repeatedly, and publicly offered help to small breweries needing testing/analysis done on their products that they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford to do. I've seen AB breweries loan/sell/trade hops to small breweries that didn't have access and wouldn't be able to make the beer they wanted to otherwise.

I'm opening at 2bbls, it doesn't get much smaller than that. ABI doesn't scare or intimidate me, they're pumping money into the craft and that is in turn creating new customers with more money to spend at my brewery. How many people do you know that drink ONE BRAND of craft beer? I'm willing to bet you can count them on one hand (or less.) Whats good for one, is good for all, when they have skin in the craft game, we all benefit.

Yes, you are a hater, because you're jumping to conclusions based on your assumptions rather than looking at the real facts or trying to actually understand whats going on behind the scenes.

P.S.... sounds like a personal problem in your country, do something to change it... or suck it up, deal with it, and continue to break the law while posting about it publicly, I'm sure whatever lovely **** hole you live in has no problem with that.

 

[Nomofett]

Oh ok, so when you said F the haters you did mean FU then? I'm confused on your logic.

And yeah, AB totally helps others, they do no distribution schemes to screw their competition eh? We'll see how you feel when it comes to selling your beer, but if you really honestly think they want to help you then you need to learn more about how competition in a capitalist society works. They may be willing to help as long as you stay small.

PR moves are not the same as genuine help. Phillip Morris also pays for no smoking adds, you're being tricked.

But what do I know, F me eh?

 

[Nomofett]

And my point was that I don't use slang that 13 year olds use. Look above your head, that's where all my points are flying by

 

[ruger988]

And my point was that I don't use slang that 13 year olds use. Look above your head, that's where all my points are flying by

Guess I'll break it down to a Barney level for you..

-AB buys local brewery that employees many of my friends.
-No one single person loses their job.
-Local brewery has plenty of new money to improve their facilities, hire new people, and greatly increase benefits for all employees
-Local brewery continues to use their time/knowledge/resources to help small breweries in the area.
-More people enjoy craft beer and, in turn patronize other local breweries.

Yep, sure sounds like AB crushing craft beer to me.

I recommend backing down from the whole insult slinging thing, you're not very good at it, or basic reading comprehension.

 

[Dynachrome]

The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.

Joseph Goebbels

Viewpoints.

 

[GrogNerd]

if it's illegal where you are, you are more than welcome to come here where it's not. I'd be glad to brew with you

but spare ABI the venom for not spending their money the way you feel they should, and for someone who took money from ABI and is doing good work for This Thing of Ours™

 

[Nomofett]

Guess I'll break it down to a Barney level for you..





AB buys local brewery that employees many of my friends.


No one single person loses their job.

----Yeah, and it'll probably stay that way, its like there's a post on the previous page linking them to cutting over 5000 jobs. But again, like I said before, that wasn't my argument. People working for the multi billion dollar Goliath are probably gonna be ok. I've been talking about the little guy.




Local brewery has plenty of new money to improve their facilities, hire new people, and greatly increase benefits for all employees

------See above.



Local brewery continues to use their time/knowledge/resources to help small breweries in the area.

-----While AB uses their distribution power to stop distribution of the small breweries. Their lobbying to create laws to hinder small breweries and their huge advertising budgets against small breweries.




More people enjoy craft beer and, in turn patronize other local breweries.

-----Maybe, maybe not. Either way it's tougher to get them because AB stops their distribution and promotes their breweries. And that argument is very debatable, without them craft brewing would be much better.





Yep, sure sounds like AB crushing craft beer to me.

-----Yup, me too. Again you are just looking at how they affect those they buy. For now those ones are doing fine, I never disagreed that the ones that join the dark side will be protected by the Death Star (calm down, it's just a joke) I'm talking about the greater harm they do to beer and society in general.





I recommend backing down from the whole insult slinging thing, you're not very good at it, or basic reading comprehension.

-----Seriously? You are kidding. It's simple logic. You said to me I am a hater. Then you said F the haters. Do you not understand basic logic. Don't act tough then back down, it makes you look cowardly. Own up to your statements like a man, don't cower like a child. And it's you who did the insulting






if it's illegal where you are, you are more than welcome to come here where it's not. I'd be glad to brew with you

----Sorry, I don't buy that argument of "you don't like it? Then move" because a: no place is perfect and b: then no place would change.
Besides, that misses the fundamental point. The point is what these people do with the power they have, that they are not these great folks who strive to help craft beer. Even if I moved my point would still stand that they make our hobby illegal. The point wasn't about me, it was about them.



but spare ABI the venom for not spending their money the way you feel they should, and for someone who took money from ABI and is doing good work for This Thing of Ours[emoji769]


-----I'm not against them because they don't spend their money the way I think they should. Don't build a straw man to argue against. I'm basically against them because I think they cheapen what beer is and they use their power in unethical ways.
And I have no venom against people who took their money, nowhere did I speak ill of the breweries who sold out, please stop arguing against things I didn't say, it's very frustrating.

 

[Denny]

yeah, most people making bank and getting the advantages of a huge multi billion dollar corporation are ok with them giving them money.






Whenever someone's argument against you ends with "F you" then you know you are arguing against an intelligent, well reasoned adult. Thank you for keeping things civil (not sure if these forums will show my sarcasm font properly)
But I would suggest you read previous posts about distribution, lobbying, etc... that the big guys do to stop craft breweries.
I live in a country where craft brewing has been extremely hard to get off the ground because of laws that the big guys made. Where home brewing is illegal because of them.
Seriously, educate yourself, learn to talk like an adult instead of just throwing profanities at people who dare disagree with you, and then you can come back and join the rest of the adults in this conversation.

What country is that?

 

[Nomofett]

Japan. Home brewing is illegal and until pretty recently it was pretty much impossible to start a micro-brewery. Now it's just very difficult. They have restrictions that say how much you have to brew to start a place up, among other needless restrictions

 

[bob1852]

So Budweiser made home brewing illegal in Japan?

 

[Denny]

Japan. Home brewing is illegal and until pretty recently it was pretty much impossible to start a micro-brewery. Now it's just very difficult. They have restrictions that say how much you have to brew to start a place up, among other needless restrictions

And how do you know that it's because of ABI?

 

[worlddivides]

So Budweiser made home brewing illegal in Japan?

Much like homebrewing was illegal in the US until 1978, homebrewing has also been illegal in Japan, but it was never legalized. Part of this has to do with the influence of Japan's macrobreweries. Specifically Asahi, Kirin, Sapporo, and Suntory. They are "The Big Four" in Japan.

Personally I don't blame them for the illegality of homebrewing like Nomofett does, but I do blame them (at least in part) for the restriction of craft breweries.

Before 1994, you could not open a brewery PERIOD in Japan unless you made at least 2 million liters (528,000 gallons) a year. This was reduced to a requirement of at least 60,000 liters (15,850 gallons) a year. Still a lot of beer that needs to be made to be able to operate a brewery, but only 0.3% of the previous requirement. After 1994, Japan finally started getting some craft breweries, but because 60,000 liters is still a pretty big volume, most of the craft breweries were started by manufacturers of sake or shochu (traditional Japanese fermented and distilled drinks).

I personally think that there isn't much of a drive in Japan to legalize homebrewing, though. There is a small drive to further loosen the laws on breweries. For example, with the current law, brewpubs themselves are literally impossible (unless you started a chain of brewpubs that produced over 60,000 liters a year between them, but this is just crazy talk!). It does take time for the laws to change, and the change in 1994 was a big one, so I imagine the laws in Japan will loosen again, but I don't know how much time it will take.

I will add, though, that the Big Four in Japan are solely owned in Japan and are not connected to ABInBev or any other European-owned or US-owned company.

 

[GrogNerd]

Rage against the wrong machine

 

[Nomofett]

Yeah, what worlddivides said.
I know they aren't AB, but I was using them as an example.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

So all kinds of nonsense about how horrible AB is for the beer industry in your country just to say it wasn't AB screwing your countries craft beer scene in the first place but you were using them as an example???? Ummm ok.

 

[Nomofett]

Sorry, seeing as the first 300 or so posts were about more than AB I didn't think that this thread was only about AB.
And yeah, I used an example to show how big corporations act with unchecked power, people do use examples in discussions, it's kind of a normal thing.
Oh, and It's not nonsense to say that a company that unethically uses its power to screw over the little guy is horrible. I'd say it's nonsense to defend a multimillion dollar multinational corporation like that. Especially one that's done so much to water down people's taste.

Sorry, I can't say that McDonalds has been good for quality hamburgers and I can't say that the big guys have been good for quality beer. Oh, and sorry for using McDonalds as another example just then, I know that examples, analogies, etc... can be confusing

 

[SEndorf]

Sorry, seeing as the first 300 or so posts were about more than AB I didn't think that this thread was only about AB.
And yeah, I used an example to show how big corporations act with unchecked power, people do use examples in discussions, it's kind of a normal thing.
Oh, and It's not nonsense to say that a company that unethically uses its power to screw over the little guy is horrible. I'd say it's nonsense to defend a multimillion dollar multinational corporation like that. Especially one that's done so much to water down people's taste.

Sorry, I can't say that McDonalds has been good for quality hamburgers
and I can't say that the big guys have been good for quality beer. Oh, and sorry for using McDonalds as another example just then, I know that examples, analogies, etc... can be confusing

Apologies accepted.
Examples and analogies when used properly, provide clarification, understanding and points of reference to complex issues rather than confusion.
Unfortunately, your examples so far are non sequitur, jump to faulty conclusions and are devoid of logic.

 

[Nomofett]

True, comparing a gigantic beer company to another gigantic beer company is quite confusing, they are nothing alike
also, it did not lead to a conclusion at all, it was an example of a previously stated conclusion. No offense but honestly that post just sounds like you are trying to sound smart.
But I understand, attack the way the message was said, not the message itself

 

[SEndorf]

True, comparing a gigantic beer company to another gigantic beer company is quite confusing, they are nothing alike

Actually, it's not confusing at all. They share quite a few similarities.

also, it did not lead to a conclusion at all, it was an example of a previously stated conclusion.

You would do well to own your own conclusions, of which there have been many here. [/QUOTE]

No offense but honestly that post just sounds like you are trying to sound smart.
But I understand, attack the way the message was said, not the message itself

At the risk of "sounding smart", do you conclude there is a difference between "the message and what the message said"?

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you've made some grandiose statements and you're in quite over your head.

 

[Nomofett]

Are you kidding, or just drunk?

Actually, it's not confusing at all. They share quite a few similarities.

Yes, I know, that was my point. I was being sarcastic because you were saying it wasn't a good comparison. I really hope you were joking on this one because you seem to have totally missed what I was saying and now are contradicting your first point

You would do well to own your own conclusions, of which there have been many here.

I do own my conclusion. Please try reading my post, I obviously said I had a conclusion. What I said was that the comparison illustrated my point. Not that my comparison lead to my point, which was your claim. Again, please try to understand whats happening here.

At the risk of "sounding smart", do you conclude there is a difference between "the message and what the message said"?

The way the message was said, not what the message said. Yet again you appear to have not even read my post, or perhaps you are drinking. Either please read my actual words (there is a difference between the words "what" and "the way"

I don't mean to sound harsh, but you've made some grandiose statements and you're in quite over your head.

Irony.


Looking back now, I realize that you were the one that needed help with understanding earlier in this thread with the word "should" Maybe you should just sit this one out, it might be a bit much for you

 

[SEndorf]

That's it! I must be drunk!
Nice try.
You're arguments must seem crystal clear to you.
Good luck.

 

[Nomofett]

Haha, well clearly you don't understand what's clearly written. I mean you did just argue against yourself, use words that you obviously don't know the meaning to (what did I say that was grandiose), and misread what I say (I said "the way the message was said" you thought that meant "what the message said")
And you are the guy that needed help earlier so yeah..... the problem is me here. (That was sarcasm by the way, it means that I don't really think the problem is me. Sometimes in English we use something called sarcasm to...... never mind)

Good luck to you as well, please find someone to help you with your comprehension problems before you try to debate the next person. It's kinda annoying otherwise (but also kinda funny) thanks kiddo

 

[SEndorf]

What... the last dig wins?
Pulling the sarcasm card was a nice touch but hopelessly ineffective.
Nice to hide behind your keyboard... kiddo.
I'll leave you now since there's nothing left but comparative "comprehension skills."
When you grow up, you may learn some skills in that area.
I'm done here.

 

[Nomofett]

What... the last dig wins?

Haha, irony again!

No, to me this isn't a win/lose thing. It was a discussion about beliefs on the effects that the big companies have on craft brewing, not a contest.

And I'm not really hiding behind my keyboard, not even sure what you mean by that. I am making no threats or anything like that sooooo, yeah. That's a very odd accusation. I mean, it's a forum where we all type, what is my other option, to embed my opinions in audio on this page?

and there's nothing comparative about the comprehension skills you lack. Again that is a very confusing statement by you. It's simple comprehension. You literally argued against words that were not written. If someone confuses on of the "Wh" words in a sentence that is literally a comprehension problem. What=the thing. The way=the method. For future reference when=time, where=place, who=person.

Seriously your posts were very distracting and somewhat odd. Hopefully you learned that you should be sure to understand what's happening and to read posts carefully before responding. You've yet to back up anything you said and you have yet to correct your mistakes and give any argument against what I said. So we can agree on one thing; you are done here.

 

[Fedora]

Ibtl