Testing Cooler Before Mash Tun Conversion (plus other equipment questions)

[Obese Chess]

Hello all!

For those of you who didn't catch my introduction thread - ie probably most of you - I am looking to get started with all-grain brewing due to the simple fact that a number of recipes have been handed down to me, all of which are all-grain. I have an old cooler that has been kicking around my mom's garage "just in case" for years and I would like to convert it to a mash tun - that said, it is old and I want to make sure it will still do what I need it to, ie keep the wort at the right temperature.

My thoughts are to heat ~10gal water to around 155 degrees, dump it in with a thermometer (I have a floating thermometer from my LHBS), and then check it after an hour. Is it that simple? Anything I'm missing?

Also, I'm going to be brewing ~5gal batches. From craigslist, for a steal, I have picked up -

5 gal stainless steel kettle
6 gal glass carboy with airlock
8 gal plastic fermentation bucket
8 gal plastic bottling bucket
Stainless steel spoon
Cleaning/bottle brushes

My thought is I need a 10 gallon stock pot for the initial boil, which I can pick up from the local restaurant supply store. Anything else I need minus that, bottles, sanitizer, and whatever suppplies are needed to convert the cooler into a mash tun?

Thanks!

 

[cmac62]

You will need a valve of some kind to replace the push button on the cooler, something to strain the grain from the wort. For doing the test on the cooler I would use some grain in the test also as it will hold heat better with than without the grain. Also, you don't generally want to use aluminum for the boil kettle as it will leach out due to the acidity of the wart. I hope this is helpful. Welcome to the obsession.

 

[RPh_Guy]

My thoughts are to heat ~10gal water to around 155 degrees, dump it in with a thermometer (I have a floating thermometer from my LHBS), and then check it after an hour. Is it that simple? Anything I'm missing?

That is as simple as you can make it.
If you want to complicate things, you can pre-heat the mash tun by adding water more hot than you need, letting it sit for maybe 5-15 minutes and then stir or add ice until it gets down to the temp you want.

You can also further insulate the cooler with towels or blankets, especially if you're brewing in the cold.

Ummm you need a wort chiller, a heat source, a bottling wand, a hydrometer, a scale ... Some way to transfer the wort (like an auto-siphon with tubing) ... Some more stuff as you delve deeper

Cheers

 

[Obese Chess]

You will need a valve of some kind to replace the push button on the cooler, something to strain the grain from the wort. For doing the test on the cooler I would use some grain in the test also as it will hold heat better with than without the grain. Also, you don't generally want to use aluminum for the boil kettle as it will leach out due to the acidity of the wart. I hope this is helpful. Welcome to the obsession.

Got it - yeah, I was including the valves and strainers in the list of "conversion supplies" but I can certainly understand how someone would miss those. I am definitely going to go stainless on the kettle.

That is as simple as you can make it.
If you want to complicate things, you can pre-heat the mash tun by adding water more hot than you need, letting it sit for maybe 5-15 minutes and then stir or add ice until it gets down to the temp you want.

Cool, will definitely pre-heat.

Ummm you need a wort chiller, a heat source, a bottling wand, a hydrometer, a scale ... Some way to transfer the wort (like an auto-siphon with tubing) ... Some more stuff as you delve deeper

Cheers

Is the wort chiller required if I have a sink I can fill with ice?
Heart source I've got (large gas stove)
Hydrometer, I meant to mention, that's on the list.
Scale - got a few different digital kitchen scales, if that's what you mean!
Bottling wand - good call!

 

[RPh_Guy]

Is the wort chiller required if I have a sink I can fill with ice?

Required? No.
Will you want one after the first time you try to chill with an ice water bath? Yes.

Check how long it takes your stove to actually heat the amount of water you plan to use for brewing.

Sanitizer? Cleaning chemicals? Stopper and airlock? Bottle capper?

 

[Obese Chess]

Required? No.
Will you want one after the first time you try to chill with an ice water bath? Yes.

HA! Fair enough! I think the LHBS has some of the ones that are like. Aluminum blocks that you run a hose through or something? They're real cheap. Might grab one.

Check how long it takes your stove to actually heat the amount of water you plan to use for brewing.

Good call. The recipe I am going to be trying has a grain bill of about 12lbs for a 5 gal batch. So that's what, 15 gallons of strike water and another 3-ish for sparging? Seems like a lot...
Jeez, am I gonna need an even BIGGER kettle... ?

Sanitizer? Cleaning chemicals? Stopper and airlock? Bottle capper?

Sanitizer and cleaning chemicals are on the list, got the stopper and airlock, no bottle capper because my lazy ass is going to pick up some flip top bottles (if I change my mind on that then yes, definitely a bottle capper!)

 

[RPh_Guy]

You shouldn't need more than 8-9 total gallons of water for a typical 5-6 gal batch.

 

[Robert65]

Also, you don't generally want to use aluminum for the boil kettle as it will leach out due to the acidity of the wart. I hope this is helpful. Welcome to the obsession.

Aluminum is a fantastic choice for a kettle. Aluminum conducts heat much better than stainless steel, and very heavy gauge stock pots are available from restaurant supply stores. Decades ago there was a myth that aluminum would leach into beer and cause Alzheimer's, long ago completely debunked (including any connection between aluminum and Alzheimer's.) Aluminium is nonreactive between pH 4 and 8.5, so it's perfectly safe under any brewing conditions. I and many others have used aluminum for many years with great satisfaction. Just don't use any strong alkaline cleaners like PBW on it, just dish soap, and don't clean it shiny. Let it acquire a dull gray oxide layer for further passivity.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Kettle .. must ... be..... SHINY!

 

[Obese Chess]

You shouldn't need more than 8-9 total gallons of water for a typical 5-6 gal batch.

Yeah, the recipe notes I have say ~7.5 gallon boil, but I'm reading a lot on here that says 1.5 gallons of water per pound of grain? Any thoughts?

EDIT: AH. QUARTS OF WATER. NOT GALLONS. QUARTS.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yeah, the recipe notes I have say ~7.5 gallon boil, but I'm reading a lot on here that says 1.5 gallons of water per pound of grain? Any thoughts?

EDIT: AH. QUARTS OF WATER. NOT GALLONS. QUARTS.

My 5 gal equipment profiles have grain absorption at 0.45 qt/lb. Yours may vary.

 

[Bigdaddyale]

Heres a nice web site to dial in your thermal mass of the cooler

 

[Obese Chess]

Heres a nice web site to dial in your thermal mass of the cooler

I am confident this will be immensely helpful when I sort it out, but I am not sure I understand the 'calibration data' section of this. Let's say I'm in a room that's around 74 degrees - I would log that, then log the temperature inside the cooler as it sits on my counter (or whatever), and then... what am I doing with the water volume at 60 degrees?

 

[Bigdaddyale]

I am confident this will be immensely helpful when I sort it out, but I am not sure I understand the 'calibration data' section of this. Let's say I'm in a room that's around 74 degrees - I would log that, then log the temperature inside the cooler as it sits on my counter (or whatever), and then... what am I doing with the water volume at 60 degrees?

You are correct about "Inside vessel" and " Ambient" data login. Once you add in any amount of water ( in this example it's 3 gallons) you take the temperature of the heated water( in this case it 's 161f) at 0 min. 5 min. and at 65 min. and plug them in the calculator. The volume of water changes at different temp. " Water volume @ 60F" is just the baseline- measure any amount of water you want to use for the test at around 60f and plug it into the calculator then heat it up to 160f

 

[Obese Chess]

Great, that makes sense - it doesn't really matter HOW much water I use, or at what temperature, I just need to put a certain amount of water and then take temperature measurements at 0 minutes, 5 minutes, and 65 minutes, right?

I ran a preliminary test last night with okay results, and then found out that there are people who actually collect these old Coleman coolers (seems like a remarkable use of space for a hobby, but then again I have six guitars and I'm brewing beer so what do I know) so I'll probably just buy a new one and sell the old one.

 

[Bigdaddyale]

Great, that makes sense - it doesn't really matter HOW much water I use, or at what temperature, I just need to put a certain amount of water and then take temperature measurements at 0 minutes, 5 minutes, and 65 minutes, right?

I ran a preliminary test last night with okay results, and then found out that there are people who actually collect these old Coleman coolers (seems like a remarkable use of space for a hobby, but then again I have six guitars and I'm brewing beer so what do I know) so I'll probably just buy a new one and sell the old one.

Correct, But you want to be as close to actual mashing conditions as posable. That's why they choose 3 gallons and 161f in the example. The newer coolers are more insulated and better suited for a mash tun. When you run your test make sure to keep the lid closed and cover the mash tun with a blanket- I use a harbor freight moving blanket.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

This may help with your total water calculations

https://byo.com/article/calculating-water-usage-advanced-brewing/

 

[Obese Chess]

Correct, But you want to be as close to actual mashing conditions as posable. That's why they choose 3 gallons and 161f in the example. The newer coolers are more insulated and better suited for a mash tun. When you run your test make sure to keep the lid closed and cover the mash tun with a blanket- I use a harbor freight moving blanket.

Got it, but the water volume at 60F is presumably not going to be different than the water volume at 161F, assuming there's no grain sucking it up, right?

This may help with your total water calculations

https://byo.com/article/calculating-water-usage-advanced-brewing/

This piece talks about the desired mash thickness - is this a matter of personal preference?

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

Typically 1.25 or less will give you a stiff mash which helps with protein breakdown and supposed faster conversion of the starches to sugars but the sugars are less fermentable resulting in a maltier/sweeter beer.

A thinner mash will leave you with less sparge water as well which can be a downside but will lead to a more fermentable mash.

I typically calculate 1.1 quarts per lb. If my mash is a little high in temp I add some cold strike water to bring it down. If I'm a little low I add additional hot water to bring it up. Then I either add or subtract that amount from my total sparge water.

 

[Obese Chess]

Cool. I'll check with the guy who made the recipe I'll be using what he was doing - I have his mash temperatures, boil times, hop schedule, grain bill, etc, just not the ratio of water to grain he was using.

 

[bracconiere]

I think the LHBS has some of the ones that are like. Aluminum blocks that you run a hose through or something?

plate chiller? i believe you'd need a pump? buy some copper tubing from the hardware store and attach a washer hose, cut in half, to both ends and wrap it around a bucket....immersion chiller is the key word.

 

[Bigdaddyale]

Got it, but the water volume at 60F is presumably not going to be different than the water volume at 161F, assuming there's no grain sucking it up, right?



This piece talks about the desired mash thickness - is this a matter of personal preference?

Water volume changes at different temperature. Not enough for us to worry about. The boiled wort volume will shrink after it cools -enough that you have to compensate if you want to hit a specific volume going into the fermentor. All of the brewing programs out there do this calculation for you.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-specific-volume-weight-d_661.html

 

[cmac62]

Water volume changes at different temperature. Not enough for us to worry about. The boiled wort volume will shrink after it cools -enough that you have to compensate if you want to hit a specific volume going into the fermentor. All of the brewing programs out there do this calculation for you.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-specific-volume-weight-d_661.html

That's why you have to worry about suck back when you cold crash. The beer shrinks and sucks in through the blow off.

 

[Obese Chess]

Alright, well, I found out that the cooler was maybe worth a couple bucks to someone and didn't want to mess with it, so I just ended up picking up a pre-made mash tun in a round 10-gal Rubbermaid Cooler. $50 for a good-condition cooler with ball valves, a thermometer, bazooka screen, hole drilled for a recirc pump, and all ss hardware. Not bad.

That said, I guess I'll just keep this as my go-to "equipment questions" thread.

1. I do not have a faucet with a threaded tip, making this wort chiller I picked up impractical. Assuming I can not T into the sink feed line, is threading that bad boy into the garden hose attachment outside acceptable? I can't imagine why it wouldn't be, but I figure it's better to ask now.

2. Brewer's Friend has "equipment profiles." Is there a way to figure out things like "Boil Evaporation Rate," "Grain/Hops Absorption," and "Cooling Shrinkage" other than trial and error? I intend to do as many tests, calibrations, etc as I can this coming weekend so my friends and I can brew the weekend after.

3. Assuming I properly clean and sanitize everything - using hot water, dish soap, and then star san - is there any concern with using pre-owned gear? I can't imagine there would be but it occurred to me I never asked.

Thank you!!

 

[Robert65]

1) No problem. But a hose bib under the sink would be a sweet thing to have. I keep meaning to get around to that.

2) Nope. Not really. Sorry. You'll just have to brew a lot of beer.

3) As long as it looks to be in good condition, without any hiding places you can't be sure you're getting at to clean and sanitize (including scratched up plastic surfaces that could harbor nasties,) you should be fine.

 

[Bigdaddyale]

Post a picture of the chiller. You can get fittings that will connect to the outside hose.

 

[Obese Chess]

1) No problem. But a hose bib under the sink would be a sweet thing to have. I keep meaning to get around to that.

2) Nope. Not really. Sorry. You'll just have to brew a lot of beer.

3) As long as it looks to be in good condition, without any hiding places you can't be sure you're getting at to clean and sanitize (including scratched up plastic surfaces that could harbor nasties,) you should be fine.

1. Yeah, I'm on good terms with the hardware store across the street from work, might lug something over there one day this week.

2. Dang!!

3. Nah, the mash tun is well-used and a little dirty inside but I'm a pretty meticulous cleaner. The buckets and everything else are spotless looking.

Post a picture of the chiller. You can get fittings that will connect to the outside hose.

Cool, I'll try to remember to do that. I'm handy enough in the garden that I figured I could, I just... well, hell, I'm not sure why I wasn't sure that would be acceptable. Ha!

 

[Bigdaddyale]

2. Brewer's Friend has "equipment profiles." Is there a way to figure out things like "Boil Evaporation Rate," "Grain/Hops Absorption," and "Cooling Shrinkage" other than trial and error? I intend to do as many tests, calibrations, etc as I can this coming weekend so my friends and I can brew the weekend after.

Most programs will calculate this information for you. you will have to enter some information about your equipment, like boil tun diameter for evaporation rate- the other stuff I would leave at default values.

 

[Obese Chess]

Okay, last one. Maybe. I have not been able to find, locally, a 10-gallon pot for cheap. I'm going to order one online but it may not be here in time for brew day. Assuming it doesn't get here in time - I have a bunch (3-4) of good-condition 5-gallon pots. Palmer says in How to Brew as long as I divide the worth and hops evenly there's no harm in splitting things into multiple pots for the boil. Any further thoughts on this?

 

[Bigdaddyale]

I would scale down the recipe to fit the pot. there is going to be enough going on during the brew day to worry about than two different pots

 

[RPh_Guy]

1. I do not have a faucet with a threaded tip, making this wort chiller I picked up impractical.

One option you have is to use a submersible pump to circulate water through the chiller.

2. Brewer's Friend has "equipment profiles." Is there a way to figure out things like "Boil Evaporation Rate," "Grain/Hops Absorption," and "Cooling Shrinkage" other than trial and error? I intend to do as many tests, calibrations, etc as I can this coming weekend so my friends and I can brew the weekend after.

• You can figure out the boil-off rate beforehand. Boil some water.
• You cannot accurately determine grain absorption without previous experience.
• Shrinkage is not a "loss" and should always be zero.
• Hop absorption only matters if you leave the trub in the kettle. You cannot determine it beforehand.

Assuming I properly clean and sanitize everything - using hot water, dish soap, and then star san - is there any concern with using pre-owned gear?

Nope.

I would scale down the recipe to fit the pot. there is going to be enough going on during the brew day to worry about than two different pots

Another option is to do a partial boil.

Cheers

 

[Obese Chess]

Great. Thanks for all the help, y'all.

 

[Obese Chess]

I've now tested the Rubbermaid cooler mash tun I got off Craigslist for $50 three times with three separate calibrated thermometers. The thermometer in the mash tun itself reads 3° low, but the heat loss in 5 gallons of water, when the tun is preheated, is about 1°F every 75 minutes. Pretty stoked.

 

[RPh_Guy]

The thermometer in the mash tun itself reads 3° low,

Dial thermometers should be calibrated before use and periodically.

Turn the face with the nut to change the reading.