Terrible Experience

[azsixshooter]

I had nothing but trouble trying to hatch my first batch of hard cider this year. I invested a ton of money, a ton of time and work and got basically nothing in return except a cloudy, tart batch of something that would equate to prison hootch. It gets you buzzed, but destroys your intestines in return.

I spared no expense and did everything possible to ensure a good brew, but I got screwed and this cider (more like apple wine) totally sucks. I can't believe I gave a gallon of it to my boss, he'll probably fire me if this junk wrecks his ass as much as it has wrecked mine.

I don't even know what else to say except maybe I shouldn't even drink cider ever again. Even the store-bought stuff is like rock-gut whiskey when it comes to being woke up in the middle of the night with heartburn.

Hope you all have a MUCH better experience than I have had. I might try the Apfelvein recipe next, but I don't know. I hate to spend money on anything that gives me explosive diarrhoea like this, f'ing horrible.

Be careful,

S

 

[bigken462]

I'll send you a bottle of my first Pumpkin Spice Porter. It'll make you appreciate your cider, and ask for seconds. Mine was stagnated fermented pond water.

 

[AppleChex]

Did you add any non-sugar sweetener? Sometimes sugar alcohols like xylitol can do something like that.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Do you make any other homebrewed beverages? Beer or wine?

Do you ever consume homebrewed beverages that others make?

If not, that could be the cause of your gastrointestinal problems right there. With some people it takes a while to get used to the live yeast in there. With store bought commercial bevs, they usually either filter out the yeast or they are pasteurized and dead when you consume them.

Don't get discouraged. For some people it never bothers them, for others the sharts only last a batch or two before your body adjusts.

 

[mopar318]

Those living organisms are good for you though. Ieft my cider natural for this reason.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Have a look at my simple cider recipe. I've won a few cider awards with it already.

It's pretty simple too. The only "tricky" part is that you must keg it (or pasteurize it).

MC

 

[azsixshooter]

Thanks for the replies! I feel a little better now, maybe it is just the live yeast or something. I haven't drank much home brew at all. I guess I should have pasteurized it, I thought I let it ferment all the way out and wasn't necessary. My hydrometer was reading between 10 - 12% alcohol last night.

I was always very careful to sanitize everything with One-Step. I think I opened the airlock a few times, once to add more corn sugar and once to add some apple juice concentrate. Otherwise I only opened it to take a hydrometer reading after primary fermentation and again when I racked it off the lees. That time I lost volume in the carboy and a large surface area was exposed to oxygen for a few days or so. I eventually topped off with organic apple juice and then let it sit for another 6 weeks or so.

I'll try it again, but I hate to make something that I can't share with friends without subjecting them to a gastrointestinal typhoon!

 

[mopar318]

If its 12% alcohol that's why it taste so bad. I think you would really need to age it for a long time or let bit ferment slow.

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Good to hear you will give it another shot! Most likely your body is adjusting to everything. Until you get used to it, think of it like eating a dozen bran muffins and washing it down with black coffee

You eventually can handle it, but initially it's a shock to the system.

mopar is right, try a lower ABV version with no additional sugars. You can usually drink those fairly young.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

mopar is right, try a lower ABV version with no additional sugars. You can usually drink those fairly young.

THAT. There's no point in adding additional sugars (in my mind), it just wastes the flavor away. Apple juice + yeast. (and sulfites to kill said yeast).

MC

 

[thadass]

My 9% apfelwein didn't taste "good" to me until it was at least 9 months old. Save yours away and let it age

 

[RPCidery]

Recipe and procedure if you please?

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

This is the original Edwort's recipe:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/edworts-apfelwein-33986/

 

[azsixshooter]

Let's see if I can remember correctly....

I started with 5 gallons of fresh unpasteurized cider from local mills, put it in an ale pale with the following:

.25 tsp Potassium Metabisulfite
3.75 tsp Acid blend
2.5 tsp Pectic Enzyme
1.25 tsp Wine Tannin

I let that sit overnight and then pitched Lalvin K1-V1116 which is what the girl at the brew store suggested. I added 1/4 cup of apple juice concentrate and 2 cups of brown sugar. I later added more apple juice concentrate (I believe the rest of the tube) and some yeast nutrients. I opened the ale pale again and added some corn sugar at one point, I think I added a couple of cups.

After getting the correct hydrometer reading I racked to secondary and let it sit for a good 6 weeks until around the middle of November. I tasted it and it was pretty gross, lots of yeast taste. I racked it off the lees and then ended up having to add some organic apple juice to re-fill my carboy so the level was back up into the neck. That started fermenting so I let it sit another 8 weeks.

There were still lees accumulating on the bottom of the carboy so I was going to rack it again and let it sit longer but I wasn't sure how I would solve the problem of loosing volume from racking. I was thinking about topping it off with some finished hard cider from the store, but then I decided to just start drinking it now.

I have some Potassium Sorbate left over from my cider making kit, I wonder if adding some of that to a gallon of this cider would kill the yeast and make it less destructive to the intestines. I wanted to give my uncle a gallon of this stuff, but don't want him sharting himself the whole time he's drinking it!

 

[mopar318]

If you have extra space in the carboy, just add more cider. I heat pasturized the cider before topping it off, since everything inside was already sanitized. Left it at 170 degrees for 1 hour, and then poured it in the carboy through a coffee filter to collect any sediment.

The added cider will ferment, but will not raise the alcohol content.

Leave it in a really cold place and the sediment and yeast will drop. It gets cold just like us, and covers up and goes to sleep.

It should get really clear, and you should not have a yeasty taste at all.

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Darwin18]

I let that sit overnight and then pitched Lalvin K1-V1116 which is what the girl at the brew store suggested.

Lalvin K-1V1116 is a wine yeast. It's really good at making wine. Would you use it to make beer? Honestly, I think you would have much better results if you went with an actual cider yeast. I really like Wyeast 4766 in my ciders. I've tried White Labs cider yeast and didn't like it as much.

This is a great video for making cider:

http://brewingtv.com/episodes/2012/9/7/brewing-tv-episode-67-how-to-make-hard-cider.html

 

[Randzor]

It appears to me you also probably oxidized it from either fermenting in a pail, adding things while fermenting, or racking multiple times. Also 6 weeks is to long to sit on the original lees if its not still currently fermenting. To me you went a little to advanced for your first try. Try again. Take juice, an ale yeast and put in a carboy. Wait a month, bottle. Done. It won't be the best, but until you understand why you add things when you do, I wouldn't touch them.

 

[BigFloyd]

If you want something that's easy to make, more drinkable and not as harsh, make Brandon O's Graff fermented with ale yeast.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/graff-malty-slightly-hopped-cider-117117/

 

[Malric]

I was always very careful to sanitize everything with One-Step. ... That time I lost volume in the carboy and a large surface area was exposed to oxygen for a few days or so.

Two possible points.

1. I was using one step during my mr beer days. I couldn't say if it was changing from the canned extract to fresher ingredients or ditching the one step, but the improvement was marked.

2. Each time you add additional ingredients or pull hydrometer samples, you introduce oxygen. Minimizing the oxygen exposure will probably help.

 

[Espresso]

Try something simple, I get nice results from costco cider, some sugar and champagne yeast. I'm currently drinking a glass which is about 8 week out from the start and it's very tasty. I've also put some in secondary with frozen berries for a few days and that was delicious!

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Latest simple cider recipe...

MC

 

[azsixshooter]

It appears to me you also probably oxidized it from either fermenting in a pail, adding things while fermenting, or racking multiple times. Also 6 weeks is to long to sit on the original lees if its not still currently fermenting. To me you went a little to advanced for your first try. Try again. Take juice, an ale yeast and put in a carboy. Wait a month, bottle. Done. It won't be the best, but until you understand why you add things when you do, I wouldn't touch them.

So please tell me what exactly I did wrong? Are you saying that it is unheard of for a brewer to use an ale pale for the primary ferment? I did not leave my cider in the primary for 6 wks if that is your misunderstanding. It was like 7 days and then I racked to secondary. I kept it in secondary for another 6-8 wks and then racked it off the lees. THAT'S when I started having some issues.

Please advise as to what I may have done wrong, it seems to me I followed a pretty good strategy from the beginning. I ended up with a pretty good product though, now that I stabilized it with the Potassium Sorbate it doesn't seem to be blowing out my colon anymore.

Thanks to all,

Steve

 

[RPCidery]

I'm half asleep, so forgive my disjointed writing.

Apple juice yearns to become cider, and all it needs is a gentle nudge in the right direction. For the beginning cidermaker, bottled, filtered pasteurized juice can save a lot of headaches. It negates the need for pectinase and k-meta. The signs point to overhandling, leading to oxidation and possible infection by an undesirable bug.

The best way to learn it is to start over with the simplest recipe possible and expand your knowledge from there.
Go back and make a batch of Ed's apfelwein (simple as it gets) and follow it to the letter, bottled juice and all. Forget about all of the racking and the additives. You will be happy in the end.

 

[azsixshooter]

Okay, thanks! I will do that.

 

[Randzor]

So please tell me what exactly I did wrong? Are you saying that it is unheard of for a brewer to use an ale pale for the primary ferment? I did not leave my cider in the primary for 6 wks if that is your misunderstanding. It was like 7 days and then I racked to secondary. I kept it in secondary for another 6-8 wks and then racked it off the lees. THAT'S when I started having some issues.

Please advise as to what I may have done wrong, it seems to me I followed a pretty good strategy from the beginning. I ended up with a pretty good product though, now that I stabilized it with the Potassium Sorbate it doesn't seem to be blowing out my colon anymore.

Thanks to all,

Steve

Its your second racking and then to the bottle. Both times you introduce the cider to oxygen without having an active fermentation to protect it. I wonder if you had oxidized some of it and the sorbate helped hide/calm down the cider, or the aging helped. Cider is easy, and unless you are adding flavor at the second racking, it is genuinely not needed unless you are bulk aging it for more than a month. I'd personally rather bottle at that time and let it age in the bottle. The ale pail are not oxygen proof, and will slowly let oxygen in over time, and without additives to the cider, you don't need a pail fermentation like a beer needs.

 

[ThorGodOfThunder]

THAT. There's no point in adding additional sugars (in my mind), it just wastes the flavor away. Apple juice + yeast. (and sulfites to kill said yeast).

MC

Yup. I make a hard cider using nothing but fresh-pressed cider. No extra anything. Its drinkable as soon as it is done fermenting. I like to backsweeten a little before bottling, but its not necessary for it to taste great.

 

[EpicCider]

Yup. I make a hard cider using nothing but fresh-pressed cider. No extra anything. Its drinkable as soon as it is done fermenting. I like to backsweeten a little before bottling, but its not necessary for it to taste great.

I agree, but I think a lot of people end up trying to cheap it out and end up with very low OG to make strong enough alcohol. They see Aldi's 1 gallon on sale and think it's cheap booze, but by the time they add sugar, they are close to the point it would be just as viable to ferment apple koolaid mix.

I use one gallon carboy provided, whole foods juice (if cider is not available), it clocks in at about 1.047.

This year, local cider (not juice) was closing in more around 1.055, and frankly boosting it via sugar to say, 1.08, doesn't appeal to me.

I actually started 5-1 gallon experiments last night, three of which are added light brown sugar (100g), molasses (131g), and honey (131g) -- all had the same gravity reading. The other two are straight juice (absolutely nothing) and one with a fair amount of tannin added (nothing else).

Really want to develop my cider skills and expose myself to what works and just as importantly, what doesn't work.

 

[mopar318]

Fresh cider does make a nice drink really quick. I squish my own from our own orchard. With a bunch of Gold Rush, and some winesap to give it a good tartness I have a cider with 1.060 OG. I will be fermenting this one down to 1.010 and cold crashing it.