Tell me about grain mills....

[DVCNick]

I'm about ready to make the jump from buying kits to buying ingredients in bulk and tweaking my own recipes.

Is it worth springing the extra cash for a 3 roller?
What really makes a quality mill?

I want to buy once/cry once if needed, and not feel like I need to upgrade later. But if 2 rollers are doing the same job, of course I don't want to spend extra for nothing.

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

You will find a strong following for the cereal killer for a budget mill on this forum and the monster mill if your not worried about the money so much. 2 vs 3 ……. I have no experience with 3 but 2 crush my grain into powder so what could 3 offer me 2 is not.

I use a cereal killer

 

[LittleRiver]

I have a 3 roller Kegco mill that I've been using for 3+ years, and it has not given me any problems. But I don't think it is any superior to the 2 roller Cereal Killer, which seems to be the best value on the market.

 

[DVCNick]

Thanks for the info so far guys... one more question, are there any mills out there that are NOT easily convertible to be run by a drill? Definitely want that ability. Preferably just take the handle off and chuck on the drill.

 

[Smellyglove]

Is the cereal killer any different than the generic chinese ones which look exactly the same? Just wondering since I've tried a few of the generics for testing, and they were ok. Very small diameter though, so it depends on what you want from your mill and how much you want to spend.

I'm running a herms with constant recirculation so this time around (had a MM3-Pro a few years ago) and went for a mattmill kompakt due to the large diameter rollers since they are better for keeping the husks more intact.

 

[EaseTN]

I believe the CK has bearings where the chinese knockoffs have brass bushings.

 

[Blazinlow86]

You will find a strong following for the cereal killer for a budget mill on this forum and the monster mill if your not worried about the money so much. 2 vs 3 ……. I have no experience with 3 but 2 crush my grain into powder so what could 3 offer me 2 is not.

I use a cereal killer

The 3 roller would help avoid turning your grain into powder. That's the selling point at least. Cheers

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

The 3 roller would help avoid turning your grain into powder. That's the selling point at least. Cheers

I BIAB so for me it's what I am going for, but good to know - thanks

 

[bleme]

Is the cereal killer any different than the generic Chinese ones which look exactly the same?

Cereal Killer vs Chinese is often:
Bearings vs bushings
Hardened Rollers vs soft steel

I'm sure you can find a good knock-off of the CerealKiller but getting details on how they are made is like pulling teeth and then you don't even know if they are telling the truth or just saying what they think you want to hear.

 

[Smellyglove]

Cereal Killer vs Chinese is often:
Bearings vs bushings
Hardened Rollers vs soft steel

I'm sure you can find a good knock-off of the CerealKiller but getting details on how they are made is like pulling teeth and then you don't even know if they are telling the truth or just saying what they think you want to hear.

I'm a longboarder so I know what a ball bearing is, but I've tried to google this and "bushings" didn't give me much as a 101, only that they "suck".

 

[Blazinlow86]

I'm a longboarder so I know what a ball bearing is, but I've tried to google this and "bushings" didn't give me much as a 101, only that they "suck".

Keep in mind as far as I know monster mills use bushings and there generally regarded as one of the best so I'm not sure it's as big a deal as some people think. Cheers

 

[bleme]

I'm a longboarder so I know what a ball bearing is, but I've tried to google this and "bushings" didn't give me much as a 101, only that they "suck".

Bushings are also called sleeve bearings. It's basically just a sleeve that the shaft rotates in. In general, well designed steel bearings will out-last brass bushings, which will out-last poorly designed bearings.

 

[Murphys_Law]

I’ve ran several hundred pounds of grain through my CK and have had zero issues.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Is the cereal killer any different than the generic chinese ones which look exactly the same?

Isn't the Cereal Killer Chinese made? I have always assumed that the CK was mostly a Chinese knock off of the Barley Crusher.

I have had a Barley Crusher for 10 or 15 years and it works well. The Barley Crusher is a Made in the USA product (http://www.barleycrusher.com/). I am all for saving money, but I don't mind spending a few extra dollars to support my local economy.

 

[DVCNick]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.
Seems like this thread, and others I've turned up Googling generally all have the theme of "I have this one for xxx years or pounds of grain and it works fine"... seems it's hard to actually go wrong? I got a Barley Crusher 2 roller on sale, on the way now. Looking forward to further dropping my costs!

 

[Blazinlow86]

So this thread got me thinking. My barley crusher was always having issues milling at tighter setting as the grain stops feeding. I was crushing twice to avoid this but it was always annoying me. The wife insisted today that I stop being a cheap ass and buy a new mill. I bought a mm2 today and tried milling at .030 which has never worked well on the barley crusher and it easily chewed right thru it. I'm very impressed with the mill and recommend getting it over the barley crusher if your not on a tight budget. Admittedly I brew 400+ gallons a year and have used that mill for 2 years fwiw. Cheers

 

[Stand]

I was using great western as my base for about 5 years, and when I switched to a larger grain it gave my barley crusher some problems and I had to open up the gap to make it work.

I think larger diameter rollers would work better/more consistently, but I never hear that discussed.

 

[Dland]

Not a big fan of my Barley Crusher, it works OK, but even if I grind slow(with variable speed drill), it sometimes stops. Worked great for first 4-500# of grain, but not getting any better.

I suspect roller wear, which probably means softer metal. It works, and I keep a long pointy stick to get it going when it stalls, but if not careful, easy to have a hopper full of grain on the ground.

So looking at this thread and considering another mill. Did about 50 batches over the years with a Corrona, and it has it's good points, like durability, can mill grain for food and can grind coffee when power out, but efficiency went up significantly with roller mill.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I was using great western as my base for about 5 years, and when I switched to a larger grain it gave my barley crusher some problems and I had to open up the gap to make it work.

I think larger diameter rollers would work better/more consistently, but I never hear that discussed.

I'd say your correct about the roller size. Monster mills have larger diameter rollers than the barley crusher etc fwiw. Cheers

 

[mongoose33]

There's a thread on here somewhere about the customer support for the barley crusher, which has been...well, spotty at best. Same with the quality.

I owned one, and I wasn't all that impressed. Sold it. @CascadesBrewer has had one for a long time; I suspect, can't prove, that quality went downhill since he bought his.

I bought a Monster Mill 3-roller. The selling point is that you can crush grain with less of it presumably turning to flour. The reasoning behind that is in part that flour will oxidize, larger particles not so much. You can believe as much of that as you like.

If I were doing it again and looking for the more budget-model, the Cereal Killer would be my choice.

*****

I bought the Monster Mill to enhance LODO stuff I am doing--and I don't want to turn this into a LODO thread. I motorized it, and part of the reasoning was to crush grain as close to dough-in as possible, to minimize the time the grain would be oxidizing after crush.

It's also a higher capacity mill. It takes me about 2 minutes to crush 12 pounds of grain, which is part of what I was looking for, faster crush.

The price of all that was over $500. Worth it? Who knows? But I am a scientist, testing out the LODO stuff, and the only way to fairly do that is to implement all the elements of that, including a slow RPM crush yet with high capacity. It certainly is more convenient the way I have it set up, but the price is, well, pricey.

 

[Blazinlow86]

There's a thread on here somewhere about the customer support for the barley crusher, which has been...well, spotty at best. Some with the quality.

I owned one, and I wasn't all that impressed. Sold it. @CascadesBrewer has had one for a long time; I suspect, can't prove, that quality went downhill since he bought his.

I bought a Monster Mill 3-roller. The selling point is that you can crush grain with less of it presumably turning to flour. The reasoning behind that is in part that flour will oxidize, larger particles not so much. You can believe as much of that as you like.

If I were doing it again and looking for the more budget-model, the Cereal Killer would be my choice.

*****

I bought the Monster Mill to enhance LODO stuff I am doing--and I don't want to turn this into a LODO thread. I motorized it, and part of the reasoning was to crush grain as close to dough-in as possible, to minimize the time the grain would be oxidizing after crush.

It's also a higher capacity mill. It takes me about 2 minutes to crush 12 pounds of grain, which is part of what I was looking for, faster crush.

The price of all that was over $500. Worth it? Who knows? But I am a scientist, testing out the LODO stuff, and the only way to fairly do that is to implement all the elements of that, including a slow RPM crush yet with high capacity. It certainly is more convenient the way I have it set up, but the price is, well, pricey.

View attachment 628035 View attachment 628036

Very nice. I think it's one of those purchases that seems way too expensive until you use it the first time. Then it's priceless. Cheers

 

[MaxStout]

There's a thread on here somewhere about the customer support for the barley crusher, which has been...well, spotty at best. Some with the quality.

I owned one, and I wasn't all that impressed. Sold it. @CascadesBrewer has had one for a long time; I suspect, can't prove, that quality went downhill since he bought his.

Barley Crusher customer service thread. Just reading some of the posts should give one serious pause. Just because it's "made in America" doesn't mean squat if you can't get customer support. It might as well come from Mars if no one is listening to customers' concerns.

I own a 2-roller Monster Mill. It uses sleeve bearings, as do all but their top-line models. That's OK if you plan to use a gearbox and direct drive the mill, but I wouldn't recommend anything with sleeves if you plan to use belt & pulleys, as the side-loading will eventually cause the bearing to wear out of round.

If I were to do it all over again I'd go with the Cereal Killer. For 100 bucks, you can't beat that deal.

 

[AzOr]

+1 On the Cereal Killer. I've ran about 300lbs of grain through it and it works great. It's one of those pieces of equipment that I don't think about (which is a good thing).

 

[khannon]

There's a thread on here somewhere about the customer support for the barley crusher, which has been...well, spotty at best. Some with the quality.

I owned one, and I wasn't all that impressed. Sold it. @CascadesBrewer has had one for a long time; I suspect, can't prove, that quality went downhill since he bought his.

I bought a Monster Mill 3-roller. The selling point is that you can crush grain with less of it presumably turning to flour. The reasoning behind that is in part that flour will oxidize, larger particles not so much. You can believe as much of that as you like.

If I were doing it again and looking for the more budget-model, the Cereal Killer would be my choice.

*****

I bought the Monster Mill to enhance LODO stuff I am doing--and I don't want to turn this into a LODO thread. I motorized it, and part of the reasoning was to crush grain as close to dough-in as possible, to minimize the time the grain would be oxidizing after crush.

It's also a higher capacity mill. It takes me about 2 minutes to crush 12 pounds of grain, which is part of what I was looking for, faster crush.

The price of all that was over $500. Worth it? Who knows? But I am a scientist, testing out the LODO stuff, and the only way to fairly do that is to implement all the elements of that, including a slow RPM crush yet with high capacity. It certainly is more convenient the way I have it set up, but the price is, well, pricey.

View attachment 628035 View attachment 628036

I only mill and brew in 3 atmospheres of pure argon.. Otherwise my LoDO brew is ruined.. This being said, Buy a quality mill.. hardened steel with adjustable gap, and you will be good.. my first mill was so so, and until the feed threw a screw that I didn't notice, it worked for 20 years(with monthly(ish) 10 gal brews that is a lot more grain than I can math(in the state I'm in..)).. replaced it with another ~$120. mill, and I am still way ahead vs buying grain as needed and not in bulk.

As for the snarky LoDO comment.. It feels like LoDO is a BMC "born on date" analogy.. stress the first four letters... I get it on post start of fermentation, but before then..? Yes, rust is bad, but it does not happen or show itself early.. Maybe I'm just old(or tired, or drunk..)... didn't find a way to end that well or diplomatically, so draw your own conclusion..

Grind fast == less O2
Grind slow == less O2
Grind big == less O2
Breathe more and have plants available while grinding == less O2
...

Your mileage may vary,
Kevin

 

[Upthewazzu]

The barley crusher will work great for about a year and then the knurls will soften and it will stop feeding grain. You can disassemble the unit and flip the rollers which will get you another lease on life, but alas, that too won't last forever.

 

[TGFV]

A solid corona Mill is also a good alternative if you are on a budget and want a fine to very fine grind. 30$ CAN and can be attached to a drill easily

 

[Blazinlow86]

The barley crusher will work great for about a year and then the knurls will soften and it will stop feeding grain. You can disassemble the unit and flip the rollers which will get you another lease on life, but alas, that too won't last forever.

I actually tried that the day prior to buying the mm2. Unfortunately it didn't make a difference on mine . Cheers

 

[Spikybits]

CK - power it with my drill - usually it is on sale and free shipping from AIHB

 

[shoreman]

I've been plenty fine with my corona mill attached to an old 5 gallon bucket. I've been crushing for about 8 years on it and it works perfect for my Brew in a Basket system, once dialed in on the crush.

 

[Upthewazzu]

I actually tried that the day prior to buying the mm2. Unfortunately it didn't make a difference on mine . Cheers

Yeah, it's an incomplete and temporary solution. Even after flipping the rollers I still get stuck grain from time-to-time. I've found that wetting the grain helps. If it weren't for the fact that this thing is pretty expensive (I think I paid ~$150 for it) I would have dumped it and bought a MM2 a long time ago.

 

[tellyho]

I have a cereal killer. I have killed one set of bearings on the roller cleaning it with the compressor. Otherwise, it's been a workhorse. I brew once a month and have had it for 5+ yrs.

 

[Andre3000]

I only mill and brew in 3 atmospheres of pure argon.. Otherwise my LoDO brew is ruined..
...

As for the snarky LoDO comment.. It feels like LoDO is a BMC "born on date" analogy.. stress the first four letters... I get it on post start of fermentation, but before then..? Yes, rust is bad, but it does not happen or show itself early.. Maybe I'm just old(or tired, or drunk..)... didn't find a way to end that well or diplomatically, so draw your own conclusion..

Grind fast == less O2
Grind slow == less O2
Grind big == less O2
Breathe more and have plants available while grinding == less O2
...

Your mileage may vary,
Kevin

Hahahah this comment. The LoDo thing is ridiculous. Don't get me wrong. O2 after fermentation: bad. Closed transfer: good. Anything much further than that is severely diminished returns in my opinion. Maybe one day I'll eat my words. I hope I do!

Back on topic, I have the barley crusher. It's worked extremely well for me. I'm somewhere between 60-80 batches with it. It never gets stuck because I don't try to pulverize it to a powder like some folks do to achieve ultra high efficiency. This is another rant worthy topic. The difference between 70% and 100% is two dollars for your average home brewer. A dead consistent 70% efficiency all day long with minimal dough balling at mash after no milling screwery is much more valuable than a high efficiency.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Hopefully my "I like my Barley Crusher" comment did not send the OP on the wrong path. At least I feel good that I purchased an American product from my local homebrew shop for a decent price. I looked at some of the BC feedback thread. I actually did not realize the BC has a lifetime warranty...even if it might take effort for them to honor the warranty. I disassembled, cleaned and oiled my mill for the first time today. I

I suspect if you mill over 1K lbs of grain a year, it is worth a higher end mill. I am not sure I have milled 1K lbs in the last 10 years. I did notice that when I moved to BIAB and changed my gap down to 0.025" that if I throw speciality grains/wheat into the mill it can struggle to pull the grains through, but just mixing my specialty grains in with my base grain has resolved that issue for me.

I suspect if I was shopping now, I would pick up the Cereal Killer...it seem to be the best value out there right now.

I am curious about these replacement rollers. If they are OEM or aftermarket and if there is any difference: https://www.austinhomebrew.com/Barley-Crusher-Replacement-Roller-Set_p_8256.html

 

[MaxStout]

Time was, the Corona mill was a real bargain, but I see that it's $70 these days. For $30 more, you can get a Cereal Killer.

 

[Spikybits]

exactly the above is why i went with CK

 

[DVCNick]

I guess if the Barley Crusher craps out I will just get a different one, but hopefully it will last a year or two first. Thanks all.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I guess if the Barley Crusher craps out I will just get a different one, but hopefully it will last a year or two first. Thanks all.

No doubt it will last a few years with normal use. Cheers

 

[DVCNick]

What is everyone running for a gap.... I'm reading .038 is popular?

Do you ever need to adjust it for different types of grain in the same batch?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

What is everyone running for a gap.... I'm reading .038 is popular?

Do you ever need to adjust it for different types of grain in the same batch?

I think that is around the default factory setting. That worked well for me for fly sparging. I had enough slow sparges that I never felt like I wanted to try a finer grain crush. I moved mine down to 0.025" when I switched to BIAB. That has worked well for me, so I have not tried any BIAB batches with a different setting.

 

[bleme]

I need to get some feeler gauges so I can tell for sure, but I run at credit card width now.

When I ran at the factory set, the wheat often made it through whole.