Switching from DME to All Grain.. BIAB?

[Allyster]

Hi there,
I've been brewing for the past 4 years using DME recipes with some grain. My recipes are @ 6 gallon batches. Looking to switch now to all grain. I have limited space for equipment, and have been looking into the Brew In A Bag process.

How I would brew my beer before:
- Steep grains at 65C for 30 mins and add to kettle
- Fill boil kettle with about 2 gallons of water, add DME and get up to a rolling boil
- 60 min timer with hop additions
- Cool down
- Transfer to fermentor, and fill with water till I reach my OG
- Pitch yeast

Questions on making the switch to BIAB, for 6 gal batches:
- How big of a kettle will I need for 6 gal batches?
- How do I determine water volume for mash, boil, and ferment with loss in steam?
- How do I hit my OG if I may have more water than needed, continue to boil it off?

 

[doug293cz]

Rule of thumb for BIAB full volume (no-sparge) brewing is that the minimum kettle size is twice the batch size. If you will accept adding a sparge step you can use a somewhat smaller kettle. I do mostly 5.5 gal batches in a 15 gal kettle. I did one 11 gal batch by incorporating a sparge (pour over.)

Brew on

 

[LittleRiver]

- How big of a kettle will I need for 6 gal batches?
- How do I determine water volume for mash, boil, and ferment with loss in steam?
- How do I hit my OG if I may have more water than needed, continue to boil it off?

For kettle size, double to triple the volume of your finished batch is the general recommendation. For 5gal batches I use a 15gal kettle. It is a bit oversized, but I have room to do larger batches and I've never had a boil over.

For water and strike temp calculations use the free Priceless BIAB calculator. It'll give you water depths you can measure with a ruler. It accounts for all losses.

If you use the Priceless calculator, your OG should come out on target. It always has for me.

 

[Calder]

Do you have a propane burner and ability to brew outside. Sounds like you are using stove and doing small boils. If you plan to continue using the kitchen stove, it may not be able to boil a full batch.

I have everything I need to boil outside, but haven't done so yet, because once I do it, my wife will not let me back into the house to boil on he stove. I partial mash/partial boil, and add extract to make up the difference in gravity when necessary.

I can boil 4 gallons on my stove. This is enough volume to mash and sparge 8 lbs of grain (maybe 9 at a push). 8 lbs of grain will get me approximately a 1.048 wort for a 5 gallon batch (I usually get better efficiency). If I want a higher gravity I add extract at the end of the boil (after taking off the boil, but before cooling). I obviously add water to the fermenter to get to the required volume.

 

[Jim R]

I wouldn't exclude the option of just going to All Grain Brewing instead of BIAB. It is pretty easy. I use a $20 Walmart Igloo cooler mash tun with a false bottom (DIY or commercial) for mashing. I easily do 5 gallon batches with an 8 gallon boil kettle that would hold a 6 gallon batch if really needed. I do heat my water with an outside cheap turkey fryer burner. If I am not satisfied with my pre-boil volume or specific gravity, I can easily add a little water or DME before the boil but that is rarely an issue.

 

[doug293cz]

I wouldn't exclude the option of just going to All Grain Brewing instead of BIAB. It is pretty easy. I use a $20 Walmart Igloo cooler mash tun with a false bottom (DIY or commercial) for mashing. I easily do 5 gallon batches with an 8 gallon boil kettle that would hold a 6 gallon batch if really needed. I do heat my water with an outside cheap turkey fryer burner. If I am not satisfied with my pre-boil volume or specific gravity, I can easily add a little water or DME before the boil but that is rarely an issue.

BIAB IS all grain brewing - always has been.

Brew on

 

[Jim R]

BIAB IS all grain brewing - always has been.

Of course it is, but it is often perceived to be a simpler and intermediate step to traditional all grain brewing with a mash tun. I wouldn't exclude the option of just using an inexpensive mash tun for an extract brewer. You sure wouldn't need an expensive boil kettle that was twice the size of the batch size or 15 gallons as you suggested.

 

[doug293cz]

Of course it is, but it is often perceived to be a simpler and intermediate step to traditional all grain brewing with a mash tun. I wouldn't exclude the option of just using an inexpensive mash tun for an extract brewer. You sure wouldn't need an expensive boil kettle that was twice the size of the batch size or 15 gallons as you suggested.

It is simpler, but not necessarily an intermediate step. Many BIAB brewers feel no need to change to a multi-vessel system. No method of brewing should be considered lesser than another. Each brewer should chose the method that best meets their needs.

Brew on

 

[VikeMan]

It is simpler, but not necessarily an intermediate step. Many BIAB brewers feel no need to change to a multi-vessel system. No method of brewing should be considered lesser than another. Each brewer should chose the method that best meets their needs.

I agree with all of this. But traditional mash/lauter/sparge systems do offer the brewer more options and control over the process. There are also a few intrinsic disadvantages to BIAB, but if the brewer doesn't see them as disadvantages or is willing to live with them, that's cool.

 

[LittleRiver]

Of course it is, but it is often perceived to be a simpler and intermediate step to traditional all grain brewing with a mash tun...

YOU perceive it that way.

Others perceive BIAB for what it is, a more elegant solution that eliminates unnecessary gear, cleaning, troubleshooting, time, etc.

...I wouldn't exclude the option of just using an inexpensive mash tun for an extract brewer. You sure wouldn't need an expensive boil kettle that was twice the size of the batch size or 15 gallons as you suggested.

A big kettle for BIAB is not that expensive. You don't need bells and whistles on it, just a plain kettle is all that is needed (a drain valve is nice to have). The benefits of having only a single vessel are many, well worth the price of a big kettle.

 

[Allyster]

This turned into a battleground quick haha.
If I were to do the sparge method, I would need a HLT with controlled heat @ ~65C roughly. What are methods you have seen for accomplishing an effective sparge witha a bag? Lift the bag out over top of the pot and run the sparge water over it?

 

[beernutz]

This turned into a battleground quick haha.
If I were to do the sparge method, I would need a HLT with controlled heat @ ~65C roughly. What are methods you have seen for accomplishing an effective sparge witha a bag? Lift the bag out over top of the pot and run the sparge water over it?

Sparging is just about as effective with room temp water so you don't need a separate HLT.
Many people do a dunk sparge where they lift the bag and put it into a bucket with water. Optionally you can put something under the bag to keep it off the bottom of the bucket. If you want hotter water you could fill the bucket using hot water from a sink.

When I BIAB I do 10 gallon batches so if I'm not doing a full wort mash I will pour water over the hanging bag (I use a hoist) to sparge. I get typically 75-78% efficiency doing this but I don't have an adjustable mill so I can't grind my grain as fine as I'd like, which IMO has a much bigger impact on efficiency than sparge water temp.

As to the is BIAB real brewing debate, my data point fwiw is that I have a 3 vessel herms system I built many years ago but sometimes I'll also BIAB for convenience. I can't tell any difference in the beer produced with one vs the other. The 3 vessel is more flexible for doing step / Hochhurz mashes so if I'm brewing a lager I will typically use it. But for single infusion ale mashes which are about 75% of what I brew the BIAB works just as well. My $.02.

 

[IslandLizard]

This turned into a battleground quick haha.
If I were to do the sparge method, I would need a HLT with controlled heat @ ~65C roughly. What are methods you have seen for accomplishing an effective sparge witha a bag? Lift the bag out over top of the pot and run the sparge water over it?

Nope.
You can heat your sparge water on your stove while mashing or save some out in a cooler or bucket beforehand.
You can even sparge with cold water, although I think warm water may sparge a bit faster and more thoroughly, it's probably unfounded.
Dunk sparge over pour over, IMO.

 

[Transamguy77]

Just like any part of brewing there are lots of different ways to do BIAB, I used that method for about a year before moving to a 3 vessel system and I only did that because I wanted to make 10 gallon batches.

I bought a 7.5 gallon turkey fryer, I wanted to keep it simple so I always started with 5 gallons and I did sparge with 2 gallons so after the boil I would be just over 5 gallons sometimes closer to 5.5 gallons. as posted there are calculators but again I wanted to keep it simple so this is how I did it.

Using a pot that small it was tricky to keep from boiling over so I would definitely recommend getting a bigger pot but it is doable.

BIAB is a great way to move from extract, that also opened the door to buying a mill and grain in bulk which also made my cost per batch so much cheaper and I was able to brew more, but than can be another thread.

 

[LittleRiver]

...What are methods you have seen for accomplishing an effective sparge with a bag?...

If you crush your grains fine, you can get great efficiency without sparging.

My standard process is to mill at .025", don't recirculate, don't sparge, and don't squeeze the bag (it gravity drains over the kettle for the entire boil). With this simple process I consistently get brewhouse efficiency in the low 80's.

The only time I sparge is if I'm shooting for a high gravity (over 1.065) which is very rare for me. Efficiency does take a hit for those larger grain bills, so I sparge like this:

• mash with half the total water volume
• at the end of the mash, drain the wort into a bucket, leaving the bag and grains in place
• add the other half of the water to the grains, stir thoroughly, raise the bag & fire the heat for the boil
• add the bucket of wort to the kettle; let the bag drain into the kettle for the entire boil

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

This turned into a battleground quick haha.

Unfortunately, it did.

There are a couple of recent topics on BIAB that have more "here is how I brew" (as opposed to "HERE IS HOW YOU MUST BREW") replies:

Cross linking "BIAB Advantages" and "BIAB Disadvantages" for future readers.

 

[Allyster]

If you crush your grains fine, you can get great efficiency without sparging.

My standard process is to mill at .025", don't recirculate, don't sparge, and don't squeeze the bag (it gravity drains over the kettle for the entire boil). With this simple process I consistently get brewhouse efficiency in the low 80's.

The only time I sparge is if I'm shooting for a high gravity (over 1.065) which is very rare for me. Efficiency does take a hit for those larger grain bills, so I sparge like this:

• mash with half the total water volume
• at the end of the mash, drain the wort into a bucket, leaving the bag and grains in place
• add the other half of the water to the grains, stir thoroughly, raise the bag & fire the heat for the boil
• add the bucket of wort to the kettle; let the bag drain into the kettle for the entire boil

This is what I've been looking for, love this process!
Thanks pal!

 

[Allyster]

Do you have a propane burner and ability to brew outside. Sounds like you are using stove and doing small boils. If you plan to continue using the kitchen stove, it may not be able to boil a full batch.

I have everything I need to boil outside, but haven't done so yet, because once I do it, my wife will not let me back into the house to boil on he stove. I partial mash/partial boil, and add extract to make up the difference in gravity when necessary.

I can boil 4 gallons on my stove. This is enough volume to mash and sparge 8 lbs of grain (maybe 9 at a push). 8 lbs of grain will get me approximately a 1.048 wort for a 5 gallon batch (I usually get better efficiency). If I want a higher gravity I add extract at the end of the boil (after taking off the boil, but before cooling). I obviously add water to the fermenter to get to the required volume.

I have 4 used half kegs Ill be transforming into Keggles with 4500W elements and temp controls! I used to use propane, but with a toddler around, there are some safety issues leaving the pot unattended.

 

[doug293cz]

The only time I sparge is if I'm shooting for a high gravity (over 1.065) which is very rare for me. Efficiency does take a hit for those larger grain bills, ...

For any given process, efficiency (specifically lauter efficiency) takes a hit with larger grain bills. This is because more grain absorbs more of your total wort.

Brew on

 

[VikeMan]

For any given process, efficiency (specifically lauter efficiency) takes a hit with larger grain bills. This is because more grain absorbs more of your total wort.

This phenomenon seems to elude a lot of people. I can't count the number of times I've heard someone say or write something like "I always get 80% mash efficiency, regardless of the size of the grain bill." Sorry, but no.