Switches, Push buttons, Pilot lights...???

[summerofgeorge]

I've been thinking waaaay too much about what to use for my control panel. I just want to do it right. I'd like to stick with something LED (as opposed something along the toggle switch route). I guess I have two questions:

Switches vs Push buttons - any reason to use one over the other besides personal preference? From what I've seen, the push buttons are a little cheaper.

Non-illuminated switches/push buttons with separate LED light vs all in one - going separate looks like the cheapest route...all in one is better if space is an issue. Any other reason to go with one over the other?

A lot of people have awesome (and different) setups and they all look really good! I just can't decide what I want.

 

[WAORGANY]

I've been thinking waaaay too much about what to use for my control panel. I just want to do it right. I'd like to stick with something LED (as opposed something along the toggle switch route). I guess I have two questions:

Switches vs Push buttons - any reason to use one over the other besides personal preference? From what I've seen, the push buttons are a little cheaper.

Non-illuminated switches/push buttons with separate LED light vs all in one - going separate looks like the cheapest route...all in one is better if space is an issue. Any other reason to go with one over the other?

A lot of people have awesome (and different) setups and they all look really good! I just can't decide what I want.

I think it all boils down to personal preference and what you want to pay ... I went with single, LED, push button switches, nice easy and simple. Just started wiring today, can't wait till it's all done!

 

[Begin2Brew]

I think it all boils down to personal preference and what you want to pay ... I went with single, LED, push button switches, nice easy and simple. Just started wiring today, can't wait till it's all done!

Perfectly said. Both of us are building control panels, but I prefer the switches with an indicator light. I like the to have the ability to look at the switch and know whether it's on or off.

 

[Airplanedoc]

I went with Auber illuminated switches. They simplify wiring, and when comparing the cost of switch + light vs illuminated switch there was really no difference.

 

[kal]

Switches vs Push buttons - any reason to use one over the other besides personal preference? From what I've seen, the push buttons are a little cheaper.

No right or wrong answer here as other have said.

Referring to my panel:

A non-illuminated click on/click off pushbutton switch (called a 'maintained' pushbutton switch) doesn't let you see the state by just looking at it. You can't tell if it's on or off.

For this reason I usually don't like to use them. If it's a momentary non-illuminated pushbutton then it works great. You just push it in once and something happens. A light doesn't make sense in this case since you only press it in momentarily. The red timer reset button is a good example.

Sometimes it can be hard to add a descriptive tag to a maintained pushbutton and have it make sense too. A switch is often more obvious as you can see which side is OFF and which ON. For example, look at pump switches in the picture above.

The tags above the switches lets you know which side of the switch is OFF and which is on. It's obvious. If this was a maintained non-lit pushbutton then it's not obvious.

You could make it obvious my using a maintained lit pushbutton. In this case you'd change the tag to say only "WORT PUMP". The OFF/ON state is seen by the light. This helps you save space and is obvious to use. You could also use a maintained lit selector switch too. The tag should keep the "OFF - ON" part IMHO just to make it clear even though the light tells the story.

I chose not to go with non-illuminated maintained selector switches on my control panel for two reasons, both of which are personal aesthetic reasons:

(1) I didn't find ones I liked (I find they look too 'plasticy' since the part you turn has to be clear plastic). They're probably just as strong but something about them makes them look more fragile.

(2) I also have 7 switches on my setup. It really only makes sense for 2 of mine to be lit (the pump lights). I didn't want to mix and match lit with non-lit switches. I wanted the parts to look consistent. (Again, purely aesthetic).

So really no right or wrong answer.

Kal

 

[summerofgeorge]

Thanks for the input guys! Kal - I'm glad you chimed in because I'm using your build as a starting point. I like how yours is laid out but I'm going with 2 elements that can be on at the same time so I can't use the 3 way selector switch. I'll have either 2 switches and 2 lights or 2 illuminated switches/maintained push buttons. If I want to keep the rest of the design similar to yours, the illuminated switches would be easier (kinda like WAORGANY). I'm having trouble visualizing other options for laying this out.

Also for Kal - I was wondering why you included a separate red alarm light? Doesn't the buzzer have a light or is it just not bright enough?

 

[kal]

Also for Kal - I was wondering why you included a separate red alarm light? Doesn't the buzzer have a light or is it just not bright enough?

When I built mine in 2008/2009 the lit buzzer did not exist so I had to use a separate light. We still include anyway it since it balances out the panel nicely.

Kal

 

[WAORGANY]

Here is a pic of what my panel looks like with LED luminated push button switches.



Simple, clean, functional, and economical.

From Left to Right is the following:

Green Master Power

Red Flashing alarm w/sound

Yellow Emergency Stop

Red HLT

Red BK

PID's:

AUBER SYL 2352 HLT

AUBER SWA 2451 BK (this has a built in timmer as well)

Blue Pump 1

Blue Pump 2

Hope this helps

 

[kal]

Here is a pic of what my panel looks like with LED luminated push button switches.

View attachment 52431

Simple, clean, functional, and economical.

All your missing are some panel tags to explain it!

Kal

 

[WAORGANY]

All your missing are some panel tags to explain it!

Kal

Yes I know Kal is still a work in progress!!! LOL

From Left to Right is the following:

Green Master Power

Red Flashing alarm w/sound

Yellow Emergency Stop

Red HLT

Red BK

PID's:

AUBER SYL 2352 HLT

AUBER SWA 2451 BK (this has a built in timmer as well)

Blue Pump 1

Blue Pump 2

Hope this helps

 

[jeffb418]

Speaking of tags, where do you get them?

 

[kal]

I got mine here:

http://www.signsbannerstags.ca/

But just about any engraving place is usually set up to do them.

Kal

 

[jeffb418]

I got mine here:

http://www.signsbannerstags.ca/

But just about any engraving place is usually set up to do them.

Kal

Whats the typical lead time on those?

 

[kal]

I have no idea idea. Sorry. You'd have to contact the engraving shop that you want to deal with.

Kal

 

[iijakii]

Here is a pic of what my panel looks like with LED luminated push button switches.

View attachment 52431

Simple, clean, functional, and economical.

From Left to Right is the following:

Green Master Power

Red Flashing alarm w/sound

Yellow Emergency Stop

Red HLT

Red BK

PID's:

AUBER SYL 2352 HLT

AUBER SWA 2451 BK (this has a built in timmer as well)

Blue Pump 1

Blue Pump 2

Hope this helps

Looks good! I just got mine installed last night. Haven't started wiring yet - going to be a while still before I'm finished.

Here's a terrible camera phone shot

I went with the illuminated pushbuttons as well, and a toggle for the alarm.

 

[summerofgeorge]

Nice builds so far WAORGANY and iijakii. I'll be following these. I'd like to see them in action!

 

[burkesw]

Sorry to post in an old thread but I was search for an answer that I haven't been able to find. This thread seemed close to what I was wondering so here it goes....

I found some illuminated maintained push buttom switches and wanted to make sure they would be safe to use. They are rated for 120 and 220 up to 5amps. Would they be ok to use as the main on/off switch to the panel? And would they be ok for pumps and PID alarm on/offs?

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_32&products_id=360

 

[burkesw]

double post.....whoops

 

[jCOSbrew]

Sorry to post in an old thread but I was search for an answer that I haven't been able to find. This thread seemed close to what I was wondering so here it goes....

I found some illuminated maintained push buttom switches and wanted to make sure they would be safe to use. They are rated for 120 and 220 up to 5amps. Would they be ok to use as the main on/off switch to the panel? And would they be ok for pumps and PID alarm on/offs?

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_32&products_id=360

The switches are safe to use with the current rating. Most home brew pumps are <5amps and the PID is <100ma. For the on off switch or e-stop it should be controlling the coil on a contactor which switches the 220v 30-50amp AC power ON/OFF.

 

[kal]

I found some illuminated maintained push buttom switches and wanted to make sure they would be safe to use. They are rated for 120 and 220 up to 5amps. Would they be ok to use as the main on/off switch to the panel? And would they be ok for pumps and PID alarm on/offs?

Pumps most likely and PID alarm ON/OFF most definitely as mentioned above as neither draw much current. Check what your pumps pull to be sure. March 809/815 and similar pumps don't pull more than an amp or so, slightly more when they first turn on.

As the main on/off switch it depends on how you plan on using it and how much current you plan on pushing through that switch. So that part of your question cannot be answered.

Kal

 

[Gameface]

Pumps most likely and PID alarm ON/OFF most definitely as mentioned above as neither draw much current. Check what your pumps pull to be sure. March 809/815 and similar pumps don't pull more than an amp or so, slightly more when they first turn on.

As the main on/off switch it depends on how you plan on using it and how much current you plan on pushing through that switch. So that part of your question cannot be answered.

Kal

I'm just starting to plan my control panel build and will be using your design. But I also saw those push button switches at auberins and have started considering using all illuminated push button switches instead of selector switches and separate lights. I just have to get my electrician friend over here to tell me if installing a 50A outlet will be significantly more expensive than a 30A outlet in the location I want it (otherside of the wall from my 30A dryer outlet).

What I'm wondering is similar to what the other guy was wondering. If the switch is being used to turn on contactors/relays it isn't going to be drawing any significant current, right? So even if it replaces the key switch for main power it shouldn't be a problem because that is just used to turn on the main contactor.

But then I wonder about functionality. With a selector switch and then an indicator light you can tell from the indicator light that you are actually sending power to the load, whereas with an illuminated push button all you know is that you're sending power to the coil on your contactor/relay. Is that correct, assuming I'm placing the illuminated push button switch in the same place that the selector switches are on Kal's design?

Hopefully not to exhaust the attention of those reading this, but the metal illuminated push buttons at auberins say the LED must be powered by 115V. If the push button is being used to control power to the coil then that's what will be running through it, right?

Hopefully I'm understanding these basic concepts correctly.

Here's a link to the switches http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_32&products_id=328

 

[kal]

What I'm wondering is similar to what the other guy was wondering. If the switch is being used to turn on contactors/relays it isn't going to be drawing any significant current, right?

Typically, no, as it's only powering the coil in the relay or contactor. THat is very low current.

But then I wonder about functionality. With a selector switch and then an indicator light you can tell from the indicator light that you are actually sending power to the load, whereas with an illuminated push button all you know is that you're sending power to the coil on your contactor/relay. Is that correct, assuming I'm placing the illuminated push button switch in the same place that the selector switches are on Kal's design?

Depends how you wire it, how the illuminated push button is built.

Hopefully not to exhaust the attention of those reading this, but the metal illuminated push buttons at auberins say the LED must be powered by 115V. If the push button is being used to control power to the coil then that's what will be running through it, right?

Again depends on how you wire it, but most would probably power the light with the same 110-120V that the coil needs. (Assuming that's what the coil needs of course).

Kal

 

[hiflying31]

I start with Kal plans witch able me to build my control box and a ton of questions I had was answer from your site. With my box I want to save a little money as well has making it a little easier to build this where I am at sorry for no tags but I can run one at a time and a key switch got to have one of those

 

[TungstenBeer]

But then I wonder about functionality. With a selector switch and then an indicator light you can tell from the indicator light that you are actually sending power to the load, whereas with an illuminated push button all you know is that you're sending power to the coil on your contactor/relay. Is that correct, assuming I'm placing the illuminated push button switch in the same place that the selector switches are on Kal's design?

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_32&products_id=328

Trying to understand what you are asking... are you saying you are concerned that using the illuminated pushbuttons would mean the light is on whenever the switch is on? As opposed to the light being on only when the element is fired (as the most common example)?

If that IS what you're concerned about, you could wire it either way. There are separate pins that you use to wire the LED part of the switch, so you can wire it just like you'd wire any standalone pilot light.

 

[Gameface]

Trying to understand what you are asking... are you saying you are concerned that using the illuminated pushbuttons would mean the light is on whenever the switch is on? As opposed to the light being on only when the element is fired (as the most common example)?

If that IS what you're concerned about, you could wire it either way. There are separate pins that you use to wire the LED part of the switch, so you can wire it just like you'd wire any standalone pilot light.

Well, that's sort of the concern. To compare and contrast with Kal's design on his system you have one visual indicator that the switch is on (it is turned to the "on" position) and then another that illuminates when power is actually flowing to the load. With the illuminated push buttons you'd either have a visual indicator that the switch was on OR that power was flowing to the load, but not both. The switch with separate LED provides a little more info for troubleshooting if there was a problem.

In my case I'd want the button to illuminate when it is in the on position for the alarms for sure and I'm not so sure how I would want to do it for the elements and the pumps. A concern I'd have if it was setup to illuminate when power was flowing would be that if there was a problem I might not know that a switch was in the on position.

With the safe start interlock it might get a little confusing if a switch was in the on position when I powered up. I'd have to push each button and try to power up again and then push it again and go to the next button until I found the one that was on. I guess that would happen no matter how it was setup, whereas with Kal's design you can look at the panel and see what's "on/off" with or without power.

 

[kal]

I guess that would happen no matter how it was setup, whereas with Kal's design you can look at the panel and see what's "on/off" with or without power.

Yup. I did a lot of "what if" situations when I was designing mine to make sure that it was always logical and easy to figure out what was going on. That's what led me to eventually choose separate selector switches and status lights.

Kal

 

[TungstenBeer]

A concern I'd have if it was setup to illuminate when power was flowing would be that if there was a problem I might not know that a switch was in the on position.

I had the same concern as you. I actually emailed Auber about this exact question this morning. They told me that when the switch is in "on" position, the button is depressed a little bit, and flush when in the "off" position. So for troubleshooting and safe start interlock purposes, I think you'll be able to tell what's on and what's off - maybe not from 30 feet away, but I don't think that matters either.

I really wanted to use these in my panel because I think they look great, but the biggest thing for me is that only a 120V LED option is offered, which means you'd still have to use separate 240V LEDs element indicator light(s) unless you're just using a 120V element.

 

[Gameface]

I had the same concern as you. I actually emailed Auber about this exact question this morning. They told me that when the switch is in "on" position, the button is depressed a little bit, and flush when in the "off" position. So for troubleshooting and safe start interlock purposes, I think you'll be able to tell what's on and what's off - maybe not from 30 feet away, but I don't think that matters either.

I really wanted to use these in my panel because I think they look great, but the biggest thing for me is that only a 120V LED option is offered, which means you'd still have to use separate 240V LEDs element indicator light(s) unless you're just using a 120V element.

I'm with you as far as thinking these buttons look great. I can't really make a decision on whether I want to go with them or not until I get my electrician friend over to let me know how much it will cost to go 30A vs 50A, because if the difference is too much I'm going with 30A and I'll need a selector switch.

 

[TungstenBeer]

I'm with you as far as thinking these buttons look great. I can't really make a decision on whether I want to go with them or not until I get my electrician friend over to let me know how much it will cost to go 30A vs 50A, because if the difference is too much I'm going with 30A and I'll need a selector switch.

I hear you. Even if you go 50A, those buttons' lights are 120V only, and I have not found any that are 240V, which might still prevent you from using those for the element selectors/lights.

 

[Gameface]

I hear you. Even if you go 50A, those buttons' lights are 120V only, and I have not found any that are 240V, which might still prevent you from using those for the element selectors/lights.

Unless I'm understanding it wrong I can use them to activate the contractor/relay at 120v for the elements

 

[TungstenBeer]

Unless I'm understanding it wrong I can use them to activate the contractor/relay at 120v for the elements

You are understanding that part correctly. But the light itself in those switches can only be controlled by 120V power, so if you want the LED to light up when the element is firing, I think you'll have a problem.

 

[jwalkermed]

Whats the typical lead time on those?

http://www.binameplate.com/

I used them because you could see the plates you were designing the browser. They say they ship w/in 1-2 business days. My order was a little slower because it was over the thanksgiving holiday. They turned out great.