Super confused!!!!!!

[fliptender28]

I have been studying this forum for about a 2weeks now while my 1st batch sits in primary (fat tire clone). One consistent from the experienced brewers is that there is no real need for a secondary ferment, some I hear actually frown upon it because of the possibility for contamination during racking. My studies of this forum lead me to conclude that an extra long primary and a long bottle conditioning is the most favorable.

So, heres my question; Why did I spend $40 on a glass carboy??

 

[ChandlerBrewery]

so you can make another beer while the fat tire clone does it's thing.

Post Post Realization: If you are asking specifically why you bought a glass carboy (assuming you are using a plastic primary), the glass is preferred for environmental purposes. Glass does a better job at keeping oxygen out of the beer, but the bucket will do just fine.

 

[Revvy]

So you can fill it with 5 gallons of apfelwein, like we all do with our old unused carboys, of course.

It's still oldschool to sell carboys in starter kits, not everyone's hip on the no secondary thing, it's only been a few years since this shift has been occuring. And they still have their purposes. But one doesn't necessarily need to get them right away. I usually tell folks buying their first kits to get two buckets instead and get a carboy or better bottle later if they decide to use a secondary for fruit or oak down the line.

 

[hopsalot]

so you can make another beer while the fat tire clone does it's thing.

well put, BREW NOW!!!

 

[JJL]

Because it isn't a fact per se that you never need a secondary. It's a choice you make in brewing. Some people use it some people don't. Also, you typically want a carboy for lagering, or if you are letting the beer sit for an extended period before bottling/kegging.

The other reasons are that a fair amount of literature out there still recommends using a secondary. Also, your LHBS just made $40 extra off of you.

 

[buffalobrewer]

cause they are purdy!!

Yep, fire up the second batch in it. You might want to put a blow off tube on it if the headspace is not sufficient for the krausen.

 

[Baldy_Beer_Brewery]

Just because there are those that do not feel the need for a secondary doesn't mean you may not want to. The long primary vs. secondary thing comes up often. Some beers I still like to secondary.

There will be plenty of other method in brewing that you will find differing opinions on. Get ready for them.

 

[brew2enjoy]

I have only been brewing for a little over a year, but I was in the same boat as you. I didn't really know what i was doing when I bought my kit and I now have a 5 gallon glass carboy that I rarely use. With the exception being when I dry hop certain beers. I also plan on making some apfelwein in mine soon, just need to get the apple juice actually

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

You will definitely find a use for a second fermenter.

 

[Revvy]

I have only been brewing for a little over a year, but I was in the same boat as you. I didn't really know what i was doing when I bought my kit and I now have a 5 gallon glass carboy that I rarely use. With the exception being when I dry hop certain beers. I also plan on making some apfelwein in mine soon, just need to get the apple juice actually

I actually just bought another 5 gallon BB, I've started some ciders, wines and meads, so I have filled three of them. I have my vienna lager in primary, that I'm going to need to switch over to lager it in, and I've got to go get another 5 gallon one. They still have their purposes.

 

[DamageCT]

I have been studying this forum for about a 2weeks now while my 1st batch sits in primary (fat tire clone). One consistent from the experienced brewers is that there is no real need for a secondary ferment, some I hear actually frown upon it because of the possibility for contamination during racking. My studies of this forum lead me to conclude that an extra long primary and a long bottle conditioning is the most favorable.

So, heres my question; Why did I spend $40 on a glass carboy??

So you can watch the fermentation more closely.
Also the glass doesnt let air in through its pores like cetain plastics do.
So if you ferment in a freezer, you dont worry about chemicals getting in the beer.
So it doesnt get moldy (glass seems to not mold over as easily as the plastic buckets do).
Lastly, so you can feel badass.

 

[Revvy]

So you can watch the fermentation more closely.

That's fine.

Also the glass doesnt let air in through its pores like cetain plastics do.

Largely disproven in terms of Better Bottles, and <1> and <2> plastic carboys. The better bottle company covers that here, and sicne they are beginning to make their product availlable to water suppliers, many of the bottles on the market are just as good and preventing that as the bbs.

So if you ferment in a freezer, you dont worry about chemicals getting in the beer.

If it's food grade plastic, the only chemicals that could leach (if they could) would be food grade also, a plastics expert has posted and disproven that on here long ago.

So it doesnt get moldy (glass seems to not mold over as easily as the plastic buckets do).

What? That's ridicuous, if you're going to get mold, it doesn't matter what material it's in, there's a TON of pics of mold on beers in glass carboys. It has nothing to do with the container.

Lastly, so you can feel badass.

If it works for you fine, I find other things make me feel badass, like brewing naked... J/K.

 

[rycov]

i'm with revvy. brew naked!

 

[fletchsj]

As usual revvy is on it with his yoda-like interwebz skills and knowledge.

To add, I would say, especially in the beginning it can be a challenge to get a really clear beer just using a primary. So, I suggest using a secondary for beers you know picky women (non brewers) and those used to drinking urine in a can (bud/miller/coord) as sediment of any kind, even if it is just in the bottom of the glass or bottle can turn those people off.

So just for asthetic purposes.

 

[Revvy]

As usual revvy is on it with his yoda-like interwebz skills and knowledge.

To add, I would say, especially in the beginning it can be a challenge to get a really clear beer just using a primary.

?????? WHAT?????? The reason many of us opt for long primary is THAT IT MAKES OUR BEER CLEARER EVEN THEN WHEN WE USED A SECONDARY.

Why is that an advanced technique for you, that "it can be a challenge for new brewers to master?" You leave you beer alone...how difficult an advance technique is that? It doesn't require anything more complicated then doing absolutely nothing for a month

What part of difficult is that?

The point of a long primary is to AVOID the need for racking to secondary.

If you long primary you will compress the trub and get most of the beer back.

I get little if any sediment in my bottles, simply by opting for a long primary. This is my yeastcake for my Sri Lankin Stout that sat in primary for 5 weeks. Notice how tight the yeast cake is? None of that got racked over to my bottling bucket. And the beer is extremely clear.

That little bit of beer to the right is all of the 5 gallons that DIDN'T get vaccumed off the surface of the tight trub. Note how clear it is, there's little if any floaties in there.

When I put 5 gallons in my fermenter, I tend to get 5 gallons into bottles. The cake itself is like cement, it's about an inch thick and very, very dense, you can't just tilt your bucket and have it fall out. I had to use water pressure to get it to come out.

This is the last little bit of the same beer in the bottling bucket, this is the only sediment that made it though and that was done on purpose, when I rack I always make sure to rub the autosiphon across the bottom of the primary to make sure there's plenty of yeast in suspension to carb the beer, but my bottles are all crystal clear and have little sediment in them.

Half the time I forget to use moss, and you can't tell the difference in clarity.

I get the barest hint of sediment in my bottles....just enough for the yeast to have done the job of carbonating the beer.

And the only filtering my beer gets is through my kidneys.

All arguments about wheter or not it's better aside, how is that difficult for new brewers to master? One could argue it's more complicated to rack a beer.

 

[rycov]

again i'm with revvy. secondary is no better than primary as far as clearing goes. actually secondary is probably worse if anything. leaving in primary lets all that stuff settle out. for secondary you stir everything up a little by racking, then let wait for it to settle back down. not to mention the sediment gets tighter the longer it sits still. so when you rack to bottles you have a layer that has been sitting for a month or so, as opposed to a 2 week old layer on the secondary. all in all probably not a big difference. but i don't use secondary for ease and for less risk of contamination (though i never contaminated a batch when i was using secondary)

 

[rycov]

And the only filtering my beer gets is through my kidneys.

:rockin:

 

[ClarnoBrewer]

?????? WHAT?????? The reason many of us opt for long primary is THAT IT MAKES OUR BEER CLEARER EVEN THEN WHEN WE USED A SECONDARY.

Why is that an advanced technique for you, that "it can be a challenge for new brewers to master?" You leave you beer alone...how difficult an advance technique is that? It doesn't require anything more complicated then doing absolutely nothing for a month

What part of difficult is that?

Remembering back to my noob days, that's the absolute most difficult part of all. Remember when you looked at your beer every day? Tasted it after it was in the bottle for 2 days? Finished the last bottle just before it was really properly aged? Sooo difficult to wait! Now, it's easy to forget, but maybe that's just part of getting older!

But yes, as usual, Revvy is right on the money. Waiting is good. So is flossing. Good luck with both!

 

[hopsalot]

Burn!!!

 

[Revvy]

Remembering back to my noob days, that's the absolute most difficult part of all. Remember when you looked at your beer every day? Tasted it after it was in the bottle for 2 days? Finished the last bottle just before it was really properly aged? Sooo difficult to wait! Now, it's easy to forget, but maybe that's just part of getting older!

But yes, as usual, Revvy is right on the money. Waiting is good. So is flossing. Good luck with both!

Not for me. I read 100's of times from experienced brewers about waiting, and I did so. It wasn't difficult at all. I knew that I would have better beer if I waited, so I did. I just bought craft beers in the interim.*shrug*

 

[rycov]

waiting can be tough... so can flossing. but its good for your beer (or teeth..? )

 

[Revvy]

waiting can be tough... so can flossing. but its good for your beer (or teeth..? )

LOL!!!!

 

[tslayer]

I started brewing just a year ago and had the same confusion. So far out of five batches I have only racked one and it turned out to be my worst as far as clarity goes. Not that the secondary caused the issue but it definitely didn't make it worth the trouble. Have a blonde in the primary now and will go straight to the bottling in about a month. So far I have been very impressed with how clear the bear has been given all the trub in the bottom of the primary. Brewing only ales so far and using WLP004 may be the contributing reason but I'll keep going this route until another style dictates otherwise.

 

[mjdonnelly68]

Love the back and forth - keeps the forum interesting.

I'm on my tenth batch and I'm ready to evolve and ditch the secondary (unless absolute necessary).

Any reason why I can't repurpose my three BB carboys to primaries so I can further expand my pipeline?

 

[Revvy]

Any reason why I can't repurpose my three BB carboys to primaries so I can further expand my pipeline?

Nope, except you need to brew smaller batches, 4 or 4.5 gallon batches.

 

[ChandlerBrewery]

I usually rack into a secondary and leave it for a day, then bottle. I guess I am not as careful as everyone else in here, but when I rack from the primary (and I do leave it for a month everytime) I still get a little haze. So I feel better about the clarity of my beer with a second "settling" period. That's just me...

 

[BrewMU]

In a few months, you're probably going to have a nice collection of those, all filled with future beer, whether you use secondaries or not - brew a batch, drink a few, give a few away, pretty soon you're paying for beer again. I finally have a string of 4 weeks of brewing at least a batch, and I feel like I've barely got a start on getting a steady pipeline going. You need more carboys!

 

[kevokie]

I got my beginner kit from Midwest. It did not have a Carboy included. That was fine with me after reading all the threads about a month long primary then bottle. That's exactly what I do. It didn't take me long to get another fermenter though, gotta try to keep a batch in primary at all times. Come to think of it, I need another bucket.

 

[ACbrewer]

That's just me...

+1 and that comment is perhaps the most imporant thing on any of this. While many get good results doing something in the hobby one way, others find other solutions yeild for them better results.

And to be honest I don't secondary anymore on a typical beer.

As for the carboy I can think of some uses beyond what has been mentioned... Mead, wine, (although Revvy already mentioned apfelwein), skeeterpee. All of which in my experence need less head space than beer.

 

[rycov]

you want to make sure you leave a bit of head space so you don't have blow outs. a five gal. batch in a five gal. fermenter isn't enough space. you can use a blow off tube, but you're gonna loose some beer. going down to 4 gal batches should do the trick.

 

[yodalegomaster]

What to do with carboys? They just become one of the collection. I think I am at 11 right now, most of them are full all the time, I only do primary fermentations and I love to age big beers.

 

[rycov]

oops. walked off and everyone else answered

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

I usually rack into a secondary and leave it for a day, then bottle. I guess I am not as careful as everyone else in here, but when I rack from the primary (and I do leave it for a month everytime) I still get a little haze. So I feel better about the clarity of my beer with a second "settling" period. That's just me...

I agree.. I rack to secondary and right to cold crash for a couple of days then bottle.....NO OFFENSE REVVY, but the pics you show of your bottling bucket is NOT condusive to changing my mind about secondaries. My bottling bucket has beer in it at the end, maybe a shot glass if that.. and virtually zero trub.

I understand that the stuff settles out in the bottles and if I could fit my 6.5 gal primaries in the fridge I would probably skip the secondary...just sayin.

 

[Revvy]

I agree.. I rack to secondary and right to cold crash for a couple of days then bottle.....NO OFFENSE REVVY, but the pics you show of your bottling bucket is NOT condusive to changing my mind about secondaries.

Thar stuff is NOT in my beer, just a little bit in my bucket. As I say in my pic. Don't forget I also say that I INTENTIONALLY run the bottom of my autospiphon across the bottom of the primary to get extra yeast crossing over. It still doesn't mean that my beer's not crystal clear....

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

Thar stuff is NOT in my beer, just a little bit in my bucket. As I say in my pic. Don't forget I also say that I INTENTIONALLY run the bottom of my autospiphon across the bottom of the primary to get extra yeast crossing over. It still doesn't mean that my beer's not crystal clear....

Understood buddy.. just saying that the pic makes it look like there is a TON of gunk. ALSO do you think it is necessary to intentionally disturb the yeast cake for yeast. I thought there was enough in suspension even after cold crashing a few days? Do NOT misunderstand my statements. You are WAY WAY more experienced with this stuff than I am. I am asking to learn .

 

[rycov]

i cold crash in primary. lets see a picture of you're guy's beer. not you're buckets. i want to see how clear the beer is. not what gets left behind.

 

[rycov]

Understood buddy.. just saying that the pic makes it look like there is a TON of gunk. ALSO do you think it is necessary to intentionally disturb the yeast cake for yeast. I thought there was enough in suspension even after cold crashing a few days? Do NOT misunderstand my statements. You are WAY WAY more experienced with this stuff than I am. I am asking to learn .

i'll say that it isn't necessary. i cold crash for several days and still have enough yeast in suspension to carb (but i usually keg)

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

apple graff

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

mad hatter clone attempt

 

[rycov]

you also have to say what camp youre in steve