Summer Ale/Saison questions

[rcreveli]

So I've had a desire to make a Saison after I heard a talk about them on a podcast. They just sound like a wonderful beer. So I was at the LHBS and of course no Saison kits and I forgot my recipe so I didn't want to buy a bunch of Random items.

So I ended coming home with a Brewers best summer ale kit and a Vial of WLP 568. In the last 15 minutes of boil I added the spice packet the kit came with and .75 tsp of crushed coriander and crushed cardamon. I coarsely crushed both spices with a mortar and pestle.

I pitched at around 72f and after a 3 days brought the temp up to 80F using a brew belt.

Today is day 9 I checked my gravity and it's 1.15 and had a little taste. I know it's still green and has more fermentation to go but I can't taste any of the spices.

I was wondering about going to secondary with some additional spice, any opinions?

 

[avidhomebrewer]

That is about the usual amount of spice to add (I add at most a tsp each). You want the spices to be a noticeable flavor in the background, not to overpower the beer. It is easy to go overboard with spices by adding too much. Take notes on how this one tastes, how much of what you put in, and adjust accordingly for the next batch.

 

[tfrost12]

This is a great opportunity to do a split batch. Where you can use two 3 gallon carboys to test the difference between 1 tsp and 2 tsp of spice. But from personal experience there is pretty small line between just being able to taste a spice and have it over power. But sometimes it can also be luck. Im going to guess in general its okay to go another 1/4-2/3 tsp of spice before it will over power the recipe given. But that depends on the recipe.

Also from my experience lemons and limes are more of a challenge to quantify and can be more of luck if you get just a little or a lot of flavor. I think just different producers at the grocery store can noticably change their flavors when brewing.

 

[joex444]

I'd leave it as is. As I understand the style, it is rarely spiced but derives its flavors from a hot fermentation. I used Wyeast 3724 today, and it suggests going above 85F and even 90-95F. This is where your flavors come from for this style.

Given a choice between overspiced and underspiced, I'll go with underspiced. Atleast this way your current batch is drinkable and a future batch may have additional spice and fit your taste.

 

[ChshreCat]

I didn't use any spices in my saison and it came out plenty spicy!

I don't think you're done, by a while. The yeast you used is notoriously balky and has to be coaxed to a finish.

And in the future, I can't recommend Wyeast 3711 more. It's an amazing yeast and kicks all other saison yeast's collective butts.

 

[rcreveli]

Thanks for all the info and encouragement.

As far as the WLP568 being tough to finish with, I learned about this when I got home. I'm going to let it ride out until Sunday or Monday and if the gravity hasn't changed I'll cool it down to 68 and pitch some US05 to finish.

If anyone has other suggestion on getting this yeast to finish I would appreciate them.

 

[ForRealBeer]

Thanks for all the info and encouragement.

As far as the WLP568 being tough to finish with, I learned about this when I got home. I'm going to let it ride out until Sunday or Monday and if the gravity hasn't changed I'll cool it down to 68 and pitch some US05 to finish.

If anyone has other suggestion on getting this yeast to finish I would appreciate them.

Your plan to pitch US05 is a solid one. Not sure there's much of a "better" way to proceed.

I did exactly that with my just-kegged Saison and it chewed through what the WLP568 was struggling with. Gave it a couple of weeks in a secondary at 72 dF and noted when the gravity wasn't changing. A couple days of cold crashing later it is in the keg clarified and almost ready for the holiday weekend.

 

[rcreveli]

Thanks, I'm going away Friday night if the Gravity is unchanged I guess I'll let it cool down and then if need be repitch on Saturday.

 

[ForRealBeer]

I just tapped into mine wayyyyyyy too early - it has been in the keg a mere 20 hours and is hardly carbonated yet. The brew is pretty good and was worth the wait. Good luck with yours!

 

[Mermaid]

I wouldn't even repitch.. I'm learning that the Belgian yeasts like 2 things.. warm weather and time.
It hasn't been particularly warm here on the east coast the past couple weeks, until today. Everything I've read about this subject also points to Belgian ales being fairly simple recipes, where most of the flavor is going to shine through the strain of yeast used.
My blond has been in the primary for 15 days.. as of 13 days it wasn't quite done yet (I'm going to start testing it again Thursday after this warm weather spell is gone).

Patience ... is what I hear time and time again...

 

[rcreveli]

FYI made a US-05 Starter last night since the gravity has not changed in 6 days. will pitch it tonight once the brew has cooled to pitching temp.

 

[ChshreCat]

No need to make a starter with dry yeast. It's just a waste of DME.

 

[rcreveli]

I figured I wanted a healthy colony of the US-05 since another yeast was already in the fermentor.

 

[ChshreCat]

Liquid yeasts need a starter to build up cell count. Dry yeast have plenty. And if you need more, a second pack of dry yeast is much cheaper than the DME to make a starter.

 

[Money]

I brew a Dupont clone Sunday night with WLP 568. I seem to be reading two different views, repitch US-05 and or let it sit for a longer time in the primary. It was chugging along at 76 degrees yesterday but today it's seemed to have slowed down. If I pitch some 05 on top of it will it hurt anything? Or can I use the pack of Notty I have instead?

 

[ChshreCat]

You can go either way, IMO, but neither will attenuate the beer the way a saison yeast should. You could repitch with a smack pack of Wyeast 3711 if you want to really dry it out.

 

[Chipman]

Don't think I'd repitch either. Let the yeast do it's thing and it'll be a great beer in the end! I just brewed a Saison with Wyeast 3724, let it sit for about 3 weeks at 80+ degrees, checked the gravity it's down to 4 from 50. I think the split batch idea is a great one, you want to still have some drinkable if not spicy flavored beer eh!

 

[Homercidal]

I'd gently swirl up a bit of yeast from the bottom and get the temp up to 90s. Brewer from a well-respected brewery in my state recommended initial fermentation temps of 90-95F. And plenty of patience.

He also mentioned doing something to get it to finish faster, but for homebrewing, just takes it's time. That yeast is well known for stalling out. If you want it to finish more, maybe try some champagne yeast. It will dry the beer out pretty good and be able to handle the higher alcohol.

The right Saison yeast, and the right ferm temp will give you a nice funky aroma and flavor without the spice additions. Some people add spice anyway. Whatever floats your boat.