Sulfur dissipation

[Muchacho]

I recently brewed a hefeweizen using a fresh pitch of Imperial Stefon. Unfortunately, it reeks of rhino farts about 5 days into the fermentation.

I was planning on spunding the batch to get a head start on carbonation. But if the batch is spunded, will I be effectively 'trapping' in the sulfur by preventing off gassing? Or does the sulfur get metabolized by the yeast into something less stinky? At this point the ferment is pretty much complete and the beer is already at FG.

Thanks!

 

[Vale71]

It won't get metabolized by the yeast but as hydrogen sulfide is a strong reducing agent it will react with oxydized compounds in the beer and the smell will dissipate, hopefully entirely, with time. As a matter of fact it's a strong anti-oxidant, if only it weren't for the foul smell...

 

[Muchacho]

Thanks for the reply. Is it OK to start carbonating or does it need to off-gas?

 

[mediant]

I believe this passage from interview with Josef Schneider, quoted from "Brewing with Wheat" describes your dilemma quite well:
Why is open fermentation important for his beer?
Looking like a man who had just stepped on a carton of rotten eggs he pinched his nose. "This must come out"

I bottle condition hefeweizen and can only say that if not scrubbed out by CO2 while fermentation is still active, yeast can only reduce so much H2S during maturation, leaving funky background aromas that no one really appreciates.

 

[Vale71]

I believe this passage from interview with Josef Schneider, quoted from "Brewing with Wheat" describes your dilemma quite well:
Why is open fermentation important for his beer?
Looking like a man who had just stepped on a carton of rotten eggs he pinched his nose. "This must come out"

I bottle condition hefeweizen and can only say that if not scrubbed out by CO2 while fermentation is still active, yeast can only reduce so much H2S during maturation, leaving funky background aromas that no one really appreciates.

And why wouldn't H2S but only CO2 vent through a hole?

 

[mediant]

I never said that. What I said, was H2S doesn't vent on it's own.

 

[Vale71]

I never said that. What I said, was H2S doesn't vent on it's own.

And how would you go about pushing it out?

 

[mediant]

 

[dmtaylor]

9 times out of 10, sulfur will dissipate on its own within 2-4 weeks. All that is required is patience.

 

[Vale71]

View attachment 627101

Very nice. Could you please tell us why you, like this Schneider guy, think that CO2 will only be able to leave a so called "open" fermenter but will be forever trapped, together with H2S, inside any other type of fermenter? This despite evidence to the contrary, namely the stream of bubbles happily departing through some form of airlock and the fact that the fermenter maintains ambient pressure without blowing itself up?

This is just more nonsense circulating about so-called "open fermentation". It makes zero difference whether gases have to escape through a tiny opening or the fermenter is completely open to the environment. CO2 and anything it carries along will escape any type of fermenter until said fermenter is spunded to carbonation pressure. This is the only real difference between an open fermenter, which can never be spunded and will require transferring for carbonation and maturation, and a more modern fermenter. That, and the ability to dump yeast during fermentation in a conical.

 

[mediant]

I'm not sure on who's behalf you're asking, but you may ask "this Schneider guy" directly. I'm confident you'll not miss the occasion to teach him how to brew hefeweizen properly...

 

[Vale71]

Right, when everything else fails try sarcasm...

 

[mediant]

Should I expect meaningful conversation with person claiming that yeast can neither produce nor reduce DMS as it is in no way part of their metabolism?

 

[Vale71]

.

 

[TheMadKing]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Schneider_&_Sohn

Just going to leave this here...

 

[TheMadKing]

Very nice. Could you please tell us why you, like this Schneider guy, think that CO2 will only be able to leave a so called "open" fermenter but will be forever trapped, together with H2S, inside any other type of fermenter? This despite evidence to the contrary, namely the stream of bubbles happily departing through some form of airlock and the fact that the fermenter maintains ambient pressure without blowing itself up?

This is just more nonsense circulating about so-called "open fermentation". It makes zero difference whether gases have to escape through a tiny opening or the fermenter is completely open to the environment. CO2 and anything it carries along will escape any type of fermenter until said fermenter is spunded to carbonation pressure. This is the only real difference between an open fermenter, which can never be spunded and will require transferring for carbonation and maturation, and a more modern fermenter. That, and the ability to dump yeast during fermentation in a conical.

2 things

H2S has a higher solubility than CO2, so the CO2 is necessary to scrub the beer of it.

The main reason for open fermenting a hefeweizen is to promote ester production in the beer due to the increased contact with atmospheric oxygen.

H2S would be scrubbed from a carboy during fermentation just fine, assuming that there was very little left when the beer is carbonated as you said.

 

[dmtaylor]

While some of the rest of you are out measuring the length and girth of your dicks, I'll go ahead and share my own actual real-life experience again, this time in more detail.

For the past 20 years, I've bottled every batch, exclusively. I don't keg. My process is simple. I ferment in buckets or carboys, I try to wait until most of the sulfur is gone, then package it up. Probably about a dozen times or more over the years, an excess of "rhino fart" hydrogen sulfide showed up in the finished beer. Dammit. What to do??? Answer: NOTHING. Just WAIT. Like I said above... "9 times out of 10, sulfur will dissipate on its own within 2-4 weeks. All that is required is patience." The other 1 time out of 10, it takes a couple months maybe. But, it ALWAYS goes away all by itself, with zero action required of me except PATIENCE.

 

[Vale71]

2 things

The main reason for open fermenting a hefeweizen is to promote ester production in the beer due to the increased contact with atmospheric oxygen.

That's total nonsense. Unfortunately if it gets repeated often enough people believe it must be true.

 

[Vale71]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Schneider_&_Sohn

Just going to leave this here...

What does Georg Schneider VI (current owner and manager of the brewery you linked to) have to do with this Josef Schneider guy? Just going to leave this here as well...

 

[TheMadKing]

That's total nonsense. Unfortunately if it gets repeated often enough people believe it must be true.

Source?

How is ester production due to oxidative reactions with alcohol and other yeast biproducts nonsense?

That's a proven fact.

 

[Vale71]

That beer taste is affected by oxydation is a proven fact. That the result is perceived by the consumer as negative (staling) is also a proven fact. That so-called "open fermentation" magically leads to positive oxydation of the beer is total nonsense. There is no oxygen ingress in actively fermenting wort even in an "open" fermenter. If there is any oxygen ingress then someone in the brewery did not follow procedure and the beer is now ruined. The real difference is only in the fermenter geometry.

Source: any university-level brewing textbook, just take your pick.

 

[TheMadKing]

That beer taste is affected by oxydation is a proven fact. That the result is perceived by the consumer as negative (staling) is also a proven fact. That so-called "open fermentation" magically leads to positive oxydation of the beer is total nonsense. There is no oxygen ingress in actively fermenting wort even in an "open" fermenter. If there is any oxygen ingress then someone in the brewery did not follow procedure and the beer is now ruined. The real difference is only in the fermenter geometry.

Source: any university-level brewing textbook, just take your pick.

That's not a source and not an argument.

I'm out. Not going to play this game

OP, Taylor is right just give it time it'll be ok.

 

[Vale71]

That's not a source and not an argument.

Sorry, which sources did you quote for your counter-argument?

 

[mediant]

 

[Vale71]

View attachment 627199

I'll give you one last hint then I'm out as this is getting really tiresome. Why are the vessels called "Horizontal tank", "Vertical tank", "Vat" and "CV" and not "open", "not-so-open", "wide-open" and "really-really-open"?

Maybe it's because the people at TUM know that it's all about fermenter geometry and have tested exactly for that?

 

[mediant]

Vat is the only open fermentation vessel among these four. Horizontal tank is obviously closer to vat in geometry than to vertical tank. That's how I read these.

I would be much obliged if you can point to any misinterpretation.

 

[Muchacho]

Thanks for the input. Thankfully the sulfur smell has cleared. I decided not to spund it. Maybe next time!

 

[dmtaylor]

Thanks for the input. Thankfully the sulfur smell has cleared.

All by itself? Did you do anything special to help make ths sulfur disappear, or did simple patience suffice?

 

[Muchacho]

Simple patience did the trick. I think think I still get a faint whiff of rotten eggs, but I cant tell if I am just too keyed in on it at the moment. I dont know why I have struggled with hefes recently. For years, I was able to make a proper hefe pretty easily. For the last 2-3 yrs, they always seem a little bit off...