Suggestions/advice on my first all grain recipe?

[creativefish]

Hey all -

I've been reading homebrewtalk like a fiend ever since my wife gifted me a one-gallon kit last Christmas. It turned out meh, but have had some success with two other all-grain recipes since. Biermuncher's centennial blonde and a zombie dust clone from beer-n-bbq by Larry. Big thanks to them and others for all that I've learned thus far.

This next brew will be my first time rolling with my own recipe and I was hoping for some feedback. I admittedly have no idea what I'm doing. But thought the best way to learn was to throw something together and then get some feedback...So here goes...

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.38 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.25 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.064 SG
Estimated Color: 9.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 83.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name
11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
2 lbs Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.50 %] - First Wort 60.0 min
0.50 oz Centennial [8.40 %] - First Wort 60.0 min
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min
0.50 oz Centennial [8.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min
1.00 oz Amarillo [7.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)
1.00 oz Amarillo [7.00 %] - Dry Hop
1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop

Thoughts? Suggestions? Changes? Let me have it...

 

[WBB]

Let er rip! Looks good to me. That’s what is so great about this hobby. The excitement of experimentation!

You should be fine with one pack of us05. Save the other for another experiment.

Your 60 min hops are just that. 60 min, not first wort. First wort hops or FWH are those hops that are put in the kettle pre transfer from mash tun and you transfer the wort onto the hops in the kettle.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Post Boil Volume: 6.25 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal

You're leaving 3 quarts in the kettle?

Everything from my kettle goes into my fermenter

 

[Blazinlow86]

its gonna be on the more bitter side more so if your method of chilling is slow. nothing wrong with that if thats what your going for. just a fyi. cheers

 

[RM-MN]

My first though is have you ever drunk a beer with 83 IBU's? I'm not sure that the rest of the recipe matters as all you will taste is bitter. JMHO

You will get little but bitterness from boiling Citra for 30 minutes or even 15 minutes. If you want the flavor/aroma that Citra gives, use it for dry hopping. I'd also take out the Centennial and Amarillo from the boil, then adjust the amount of first wort hops or boil hops to get the bitterness you want.

 

[Sadu]

Yup 83 IBU is fairly high for a 1.064 brew. You'd normally target that kind of bitterness in an 8% beer, not a 6% beer. I would bring that back a bit, personally.

 

[creativefish]

Thanks everyone! Definitely appreciate the feedback.

The common theme seems to be the bitterness, which I was questioning a bit myself. I was targeting something along the lines of Caldera's IPA. It's a favorite of mine and they no longer distribute here in Kansas. The beer's profile from their website lists 94 IBUs, but I'm more inclined to take it down a bit.

I'll probably adjust that down. Plan to brew tomorrow, so I'll post back with my final recipe and let everyone know how it comes out eventually.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

My first though is have you ever drunk a beer with 83 IBU's? I'm not sure that the rest of the recipe matters as all you will taste is bitter. JMHO

You will get little but bitterness from boiling Citra for 30 minutes or even 15 minutes. If you want the flavor/aroma that Citra gives, use it for dry hopping. I'd also take out the Centennial and Amarillo from the boil, then adjust the amount of first wort hops or boil hops to get the bitterness you want.

Isn't there a big difference between actual and calculated IBUs? What our fancy software spits out for IBU is not necessarily what it'll be in real life application. Ex: When I plug the recipe in for Deschutes Fresh Squeezed clone on Northern Brewer(which has OG of 1.064) I get like 90 something IBUs based on the formula. Yet that beer is rated at like 65 on the spec sheet. I don't know if they've had it lab tested or are just guessing, but nobody complains about that beer being very bitter.

I recently did a couple recipes that are bottle conditioning, one had calculated IBUs around 92 the other 89. Neither are big beers(OG 1.060). I tasted them both as I was bottling and barely tasted any bitterness, just fruit bombs. Maybe that'll ramp up after carbonation and conditioning, and I sincerely hope it does because I'm not trying to make juice, but I doesn't look like they're going to be bitter bombs at all.

Brewing is like cooking I think, you make stuff and then adjust to your taste but I wouldn't be frightened by 83 calculated IBUs.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I do agree with moving the 30 minute Citra. I've been using a lot of it lately and it smells awesome. Definitely best used very late and dry hop.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Isn't there a big difference between actual and calculated IBUs? What our fancy software spits out for IBU is not necessarily what it'll be in real life application. Ex: When I plug the recipe in for Deschutes Fresh Squeezed clone on Northern Brewer(which has OG of 1.064) I get like 90 something IBUs based on the formula. Yet that beer is rated at like 65 on the spec sheet. I don't know if they've had it lab tested or are just guessing, but nobody complains about that beer being very bitter.

I recently did a couple recipes that are bottle conditioning, one had calculated IBUs around 92 the other 89. Neither are big beers(OG 1.060). I tasted them both as I was bottling and barely tasted any bitterness, just fruit bombs. Maybe that'll ramp up after carbonation and conditioning, and I sincerely hope it does because I'm not trying to make juice, but I doesn't look like they're going to be bitter bombs at all.

Brewing is like cooking I think, you make stuff and then adjust to your taste but I wouldn't be frightened by 83 calculated IBUs.

Keep in mind you may be using said software incorrectly. Beers using alot of late hops need to be chilled in a specific timeframe to be on point with the recipe. If you use beersmith there is a section to compensate for this which will make a big difference on those late hop recipes. Your efficiency can also affect these numbers as the kits are a ballpark kinda number. If I was trying to brew a recipe on Northern Brewer I would be adjusting the recipe on my software to hit the OG and the IBU the original beer claims to be. Cheers

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Keep in mind you may be using said software incorrectly. Beers using alot of late hops need to be chilled in a specific timeframe to be on point with the recipe. If you use beersmith there is a section to compensate for this which will make a big difference on those late hop recipes. Your efficiency can also affect these numbers as the kits are a ballpark kinda number. If I was trying to brew a recipe on Northern Brewer I would be adjusting the recipe on my software to hit the OG and the IBU the original beer claims to be. Cheers

I use brewersfriend, which seems pretty solid. I'm not sure how I would be using it incorrectly, as I put in the correct boil times and hop AA%, and for whirlpool/hopstands it defaults to a 10% utilization rate which I leave alone since I generally do them at 170 degrees. If I threw hops in at knockout I would increase it.

It just seems like from what I've read that calculated IBUs are an overrated number, and perceived bitterness comes from many different factors like gravity, grain bill, water profile, etc. The best way to figure out exactly how bitter a recipe will be in your system is just brew it.

 

[z-bob]

Your hops look kinda "busy" Four different varieties? I usually use one or two, but I just like things simple. The malt looks fine. I'd also dial the bitterness back to about 50 or so.

 

[BrewingAroundtheRrealm]

Home brewing is all about experimentation and finding what you like. I've been brewing for a year and have definitely made some mistakes. The important thing is that I learned from them.

I even put all of my mistakes on display for everyone to see: https://brewingaroundtherealm.com/

Your recipe is fine. Try it and make adjustments next time. Just make sure you are making beer that you like. Not making beer for other people to like. And you to think is OK.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I use brewersfriend, which seems pretty solid. I'm not sure how I would be using it incorrectly, as I put in the correct boil times and hop AA%, and for whirlpool/hopstands it defaults to a 10% utilization rate which I leave alone since I generally do them at 170 degrees. If I threw hops in at knockout I would increase it.

It just seems like from what I've read that calculated IBUs are an overrated number, and perceived bitterness comes from many different factors like gravity, grain bill, water profile, etc. The best way to figure out exactly how bitter a recipe will be in your system is just brew it.

Any of the items you mentioned could be *******possibly****** entered incorrectly. I've never used brewers friend but beersmith has been good to me as far as IBU goes. Maybe a better example is say 2 brewers are making the same recipe with the same software. They both add 2 ounces of "flame out" hops. One brewer chills his batch while whirlpooling but the other uses a plate chiller and waits until after his/her 30 min whirlpool is complete to chill. If brewer 2 doesn't account for how much longer his flame out additions stay above 170 his beer will be much more bitter. Hopefully that makes sense. Cheers

**edit**

on a side note out of curiosity i added northern brewers fresh squeezed clone in beersmith using my equipment profile and it came out at 61.5 ibu and .844 ibu/sg ratio. thats why nobody complains about it being too bitter. if it actually was 90 ibu it would be too bitter and unbalanced

ops recipe comes out at 90 ibu via beersmith with a whopping 1.244 ibu/sg ratio
and a ratio of 1.447 if it takes 10 minutes to chill from flame out


that will be a very bitter beer and possibly the most bitter beer you ever try

more the point was the software is good as long as its dialed in correctly. sure those numbers are slightly off but not by that much. cheers

 

[Blazinlow86]

Home brewing is all about experimentation and finding what you like. I've been brewing for a year and have definitely made some mistakes. The important thing is that I learned from them.

I even put all of my mistakes on display for everyone to see: https://brewingaroundtherealm.com/

Your recipe is fine. Try it and make adjustments next time. Just make sure you are making beer that you like. Not making beer for other people to like. And you to think is OK.

while i agree with you that experimenting helps the learning process i doubt op is looking to make a 1.24 ibu/sg ratio beer and if hes not looking for a ridiculous BITTER beer he needs to scale it back. cheers

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Any of the items you mentioned could be *******possibly****** entered incorrectly. I've never used brewers friend but beersmith has been good to me as far as IBU goes. Maybe a better example is say 2 brewers are making the same recipe with the same software. They both add 2 ounces of "flame out" hops. One brewer chills his batch while whirlpooling but the other uses a plate chiller and waits until after his/her 30 min whirlpool is complete to chill. If brewer 2 doesn't account for how much longer his flame out additions stay above 170 his beer will be much more bitter. Hopefully that makes sense. Cheers

**edit**

on a side note out of curiosity i added northern brewers fresh squeezed clone in beersmith using my equipment profile and it came out at 61.5 ibu and .844 ibu/sg ratio. thats why nobody complains about it being too bitter. if it actually was 90 ibu it would be too bitter and unbalanced

ops recipe comes out at 90 ibu via beersmith with a whopping 1.244 ibu/sg ratio
and a ratio of 1.447 if it takes 10 minutes to chill from flame out


that will be a very bitter beer and possibly the most bitter beer you ever try

more the point was the software is good as long as its dialed in correctly. sure those numbers are slightly off but not by that much. cheers

Yeah I'm pretty sure I'm not entering anything in incorrectly. Regarding whirlpool hops, it's pretty much an estimate based on temperature. Programs used to give zero calculated IBUs for post flameout additions. 10% utilization at 170 seems to be a pretty agreed upon number, but no software knows exactly what the correct IBUs added during a hop stand are. Which is kind of my point, calculated IBUs are just a loose estimate. Unless you send your beer to a lab you don't really know what your IBUs are. And even when you do know your exact actual IBUs, perceived bitterness is another thing entirely.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Yeah I'm pretty sure I'm not entering anything in incorrectly. Regarding whirlpool hops, it's pretty much an estimate based on temperature. Programs used to give zero calculated IBUs for post flameout additions. 10% utilization at 170 seems to be a pretty agreed upon number, but no software knows exactly what the correct IBUs added during a hop stand are. Which is kind of my point, calculated IBUs are just a loose estimate. Unless you send your beer to a lab you don't really know what your IBUs are. And even when you do know your exact actual IBUs, perceived bitterness is another thing entirely.

It could definitely just be a glitch in brewers friend causing the extra high IBU you noted you were getting in the northen brewer recipe or the whirlpool settings arent being compensated for. My point was more so the software is generally very close as far as IBU goes and that if op brews the recipe the way it's written it will be VERY bitter. I don't think it's as loose as you think it is. In fact by my quick test it's pretty much bang on. Cheers