Such thing as too high brewhouse/mash efficiency?

[rp5brew]

HBT-

I have had a recurring problem with all my beers having a "mash tun" or "wort" odor, and I can't for the life of me get a crisp/clean finish. I went to the LHBS and asked an employee. He asked what my efficiency was (80-88% in my RIMS). He said that was my problem. Too high efficiency carries over un-fermentables and off favors. I have scoured the posts here for the past few months and can't find anything that says high efficiency is bad. Is this guy an idiot?

 

[Pappers_]

By crisp and clean finish, perhaps you mean you'd like a drier finish. What have your final gravities been? Mash low to get fewer non fermentables. To get a cleaner flavor profile, are you using a clean yeast strain like WL001 and fermenting in the low 60s?

80% efficiency doesn't seem to high to me.

 

[Airborneguy]

80% isn't too high, but 88% certainly can be. That's a large fluctuation, btw.

Can you describe "mash tun" or "wort" odor any other way? Those aren't common descriptors (at least to me), and don't help in anyway describe what might be your problem.

 

[rp5brew]

By crisp and clean finish, perhaps you mean you'd like a drier finish. What have your final gravities been? Mash low to get fewer non fermentables. To get a cleaner flavor profile, are you using a clean yeast strain like WL001 and fermenting in the low 60s?

80% efficiency doesn't seem to high to me.

I have been fermenting at 68 with wyeast 1056. Most mashes at 149. Most attenuation is within range. Efficiency above 90 is good right?

My latest brew was 16.7 OG and 3.25 FG. efficiency 89%

 

[rp5brew]

80% isn't too high, but 88% certainly can be. That's a large fluctuation, btw.

Can you describe "mash tun" or "wort" odor any other way? Those aren't common descriptors (at least to me), and don't help in anyway describe what might be your problem.

Cereal and wort smell are both listed on the BJCP wheel.

Last three brew efficiencies: 91, 89, and 92.

 

[day_trippr]

I have had a recurring problem with all my beers having a "mash tun" or "wort" odor[...]

Still haven't provided a useful description of what that actually means, though if I had to play a hunch, I'm guessing you're smelling a DMS issue...

Cheers!

 

[rp5brew]

Still haven't provided a useful description of what that actually means, though if I had to play a hunch, I'm guessing you're smelling a DMS issue...

Cheers!

No cabbage smell-not DMS
the beer has a malt o meal cereal smell. Just like the smell of the mash tun. I don't know a better way to describe. Sorry guys. If anyone is sea-tac area I can provide samples.

 

[InLimbo]

I call bull**** on "too high" efficiency. Electric brewers in particular tend to have 90+% efficiencies, with no ill effects. If your numbers are right, you need to start looking somewhere else. What is your water like? Is there a common grain in the last few beers you can identify? Can you give a sample grain and hop bill for us to look at?

 

[chumpsteak]

Are you controlling your ferm temps and keeping them at 68 or are you fermenting in a 68 degree room? 68 can easily hit mid 70's and cause nasty off flavors with 1056. Also, I tend to pick up mass grainy cereal flavors in pale ales that are low on the ibu scale. If you drink a lot of IPA's or northwest style pale ales you may have acquired a taste for hops and low ibu beers may go grainy to your palate.

 

[lschiavo]

I just tried no-sparge my last two batches to lower my efficiency and see if that would improve my beers at all. They are no where near finished yet so I cannot say if it works flavorwize but it dropped my efficiency down to about 70% from mid to high 80's. It also significantly shortens my brewday. It may be worth a try next batch to see if anything improves.

 

[shutupjojo]

I prefer my beers around 75-80 % efficiency. It took me awhile to balance everything to maintain that . It could be alot of things like everyone has suggested but PH has made a huge difference in my beers. So much more brighter and cleaner. Good water and PH may help but sounds like something else is going on.

 

[rp5brew]

I prefer my beers around 75-80 % efficiency. It took me awhile to balance everything to maintain that . It could be alot of things like everyone has suggested but PH has made a huge difference in my beers. So much more brighter and cleaner. Good water and PH may help but sounds like something else is going on.

Are you referring to mash ph or water ph?

 

[shutupjojo]

Are you referring to mash ph or water ph?

Both , I have a good meter so I check ph the whole brewing process.
I even check it at kegging time.

 

[Beerthoven]

For a while I was suddenly getting 90%+ efficiency, but it turned out that I needed a new grain scale. Once I figured that out, my efficiency dropped back to normal, 80%.

 

[pm5k00]

I have really dialed in my process and system as of late, and have been getting 86% efficiency (with a mash temp of 155) without any ill effects. Also I remember reading an article about new belgium brewery and how their system gets them in the mid 90s (95 I belive). I know there are people on here that will tell you high efficiency results in a lower quality beer, but that has not been the case for me or my brew buddies who also range in the high 80s low 90s.

 

[audger]

efficiency has absoloutely nothing to do with taste, unless you are sparging for way too long and extract tannins in an effort to get higher efficiency. efficiency just tells you how much out of the total available sugar in the grains you were able to get out.

70%, 80%, 90%... they all taste the same. the only difference is how much grain you have to use.


i will also call BS on average people (other than a few large high tech commercial breweries) claiming 90+% efficiency. your measurements or math are more likely off. its extremely difficult to get above 90 even in the best setups.

 

[RogueGoose85]

efficiency has absoloutely nothing to do with taste, unless you are sparging for way too long and extract tannins in an effort to get higher efficiency. efficiency just tells you how much out of the total available sugar in the grains you were able to get out.

70%, 80%, 90%... they all taste the same. the only difference is how much grain you have to use.

i will also call BS on average people (other than a few large high tech commercial breweries) claiming 90+% efficiency. your measurements or math are more likely off. its extremely difficult to get above 90 even in the best setups.

Gotta disagree with you on efficiency having nothing to do with taste. Take some time and read up on the subject, the findings will surprise you, since you seem to be pretty avid

 

[SwampassJ]

Gotta disagree with you on efficiency having nothing to do with taste. Take some time and read up on the subject, the findings will surprise you, since you seem to be pretty avid

Speaking of being avid...How about doing us a favor and linking us to the reading instead of expecting us to find it in thousands of threads of anecdotal evidence. I haven't had the same recipe with two different efficiency % unless I was using a different malt supplier so obvious taste will be different.