submerging corny kegs in heated water bath for kveik fermentation?

[twd000]

I'm trying to come up with a low-tech way to warm up my sluggish kveik blonde ale fermentation. My basement is cold right now - 55F and even the exothermic reaction is only achieving mid-60s

I ferment in two corny kegs so it's partly a surface-area problem. I have them sitting on a seedling heat mat that puts out 20Watts, with a sleeping bag wrapped around both kegs but that's kind of kluge-y

Was thinking of fill a cooler with water and dropping in an aquarium heater. Will sitting submerged for 2-3 days degrade the rubber or adhesive on the keg?

Any other ideas on how to get about 30 degrees of heat applied to two tall corny kegs?

 

[Ki-ri-n]

I don't think an aquarium heater is going to be able to raise the temp that high. Or at least it's going to take a while to get there.
Can you build more of a fermentation type cabinet to hold the heat in better? Even then, I don't know if a seedling mat will put out enough heat either.

I'm going to be doing a Kveik soon. I have a fermentation fridge that also has a ceramic heater. I'm hoping that will work.

 

[twd000]

I don't think an aquarium heater is going to be able to raise the temp that high. Or at least it's going to take a while to get there.
Can you build more of a fermentation type cabinet to hold the heat in better? Even then, I don't know if a seedling mat will put out enough heat either.

I'm going to be doing a Kveik soon. I have a fermentation fridge that also has a ceramic heater. I'm hoping that will work.

I don't have a fermentation fridge and usually rely on a cool basement to ferment lagers etc.

Just experimenting with some kveik strains and trying to rig up something temporary to see if I want to switch any on my yeast strains long-term

How many watts is your ceramic heater? I also have a bucket heater I use for my chicken coop water in the winter. But it would require kegs to be submerged in a water bath and I'm not sure if that would cause the rubber/adhesive to fail

 

[Ki-ri-n]

I'd have to look, I don't remember any more.

I think you may be better off building a rigid foam "box" that you could put over the keg(s). Heated water shouldn't degrade the rubber/adhesive on the keg.

 

[twd000]

you know, I just looked up the "fermwrap" heaters that my LHBS sells. They list 5-20F heating capability over ambient, with 40W output. I have several of these 20W seedling heat mats - I could just bungee-wrap them around my corny kegs and skip the water bath idea

https://www.morebeer.com/products/fermwrap-heater.html

 

[day_trippr]

As long as you can actually control them...

Cheers!

 

[easttex]

Bring it upstairs and keep it in a closet.

I use a 30w heating element in my ferm chamber and it works well enough. If I did not have that, I would use the heat wrap.

Whatever you do, make sure its controllable so you don't cook your beer.

 

[seatazzz]

+1 to the bring it into the house idea. I did a few kveik batches last summer and they stayed in my brew room, which during the hottest days of summer stays about 75-80 without the fan on. Fermenter was also wrapped in a big fluffy towel and a fleece blanket. Kveik REALLY likes heat, the more the better. I think the last batch started out about 95 and only dropped down to 90 over 4 days, beer turned out fantastic.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

I fermented in a corny and put it right near the wood stove over the winter. Cranking up the heat did push the orange esters, but got rave reviews from the pals.

 

[lumbergh]

At what temp did you pitch the yeast?

 

[twd000]

As long as you can actually control them...

Cheers!

yes I have a leftover Ranco controller from my previous kegerator build. I ran two 20W seedling heat mats split off the output and was able to get the kegs up to 80F overnight

 

[twd000]

Bring it upstairs and keep it in a closet.

I use a 30w heating element in my ferm chamber and it works well enough. If I did not have that, I would use the heat wrap.

Whatever you do, make sure its controllable so you don't cook your beer.

unfortunately upstairs is only about 60F as it has been warm enough to turn off the HVAC heat but not warm enough to really get the house any higher than 60-65

I have a Ranco controller to turn off the heat mats when I hit my target temperature

 

[twd000]

I fermented in a corny and put it right near the wood stove over the winter. Cranking up the heat did push the orange esters, but got rave reviews from the pals.

I have used the woodstove to great effect on a saison over the winter, but it's been warm enough to stop burning for the last month and I'm not bringing any more wood onto the porch until the fall. It's a nice option when it's running, though the kids complain about the hissing/bubbling sound coming out of the spunding valve!

 

[twd000]

At what temp did you pitch the yeast?

was probably cooled to about 65 by the time I pitched the yeast. It definitely lagged but the krausen got rolling the next day once I got some heat mats wrapped around the kegs

 

[lumbergh]

The last one i did, I pitched at 95 and wrapped in a towel/blanket and it seemed to work well even in a 65F room.

 

[twd000]

The last one i did, I pitched at 95 and wrapped in a towel/blanket and it seemed to work well even in a 65F room.

wow that is warm! maybe I need to be less thorough with my immersion chiller - my well water is cold and it takes less than 10 minutes to chill the whole kettle. By the time I let the hops settle then rack it off, then aerate and pitch yeast starter - those kegs are really cooling down below kveik temperature

 

[easttex]

wow that is warm! maybe I need to be less thorough with my immersion chiller - my well water is cold and it takes less than 10 minutes to chill the whole kettle. By the time I let the hops settle then rack it off, then aerate and pitch yeast starter - those kegs are really cooling down below kveik temperature

It has been my experience with both Voss and Lutra that both will ferment just fine in the 60's. However, they behave much more like a traditional yeast and do not create the ester profile that kveik yeasts are generally known for. At lower temps they simply take longer to finish out.

So if you ever find that you cannot warm them up, simply give them a week or two to ferment out completely.

 

[twd000]

It has been my experience with both Voss and Lutra that both will ferment just fine in the 60's. However, they behave much more like a traditional yeast and do not create the ester profile that kveik yeasts are generally known for. At lower temps they simply take longer to finish out.

So if you ever find that you cannot warm them up, simply give them a week or two to ferment out completely.

that's interesting as my next beer is an Anchor Steam/California Common where suppressed esters are desirable

Is the low pitching rate of kveik simply a function of temperature? Should I pitch a standard ale cell count if I'm planning to ferment in the 60s instead of 80s?

 

[MickB]

With my kveiks, I use a big cooler with a sous vide (for cooking) set a couple of degrees above my desired temp. They are made to run 12 to 60 hrs easily. I have had one running almost constant for a month before. It seems to be pretty darn efficient and my electric bill didn't hurt near as bad as expected.

 

[easttex]

that's interesting as my next beer is an Anchor Steam/California Common where suppressed esters are desirable

Is the low pitching rate of kveik simply a function of temperature? Should I pitch a standard ale cell count if I'm planning to ferment in the 60s instead of 80s?

I would, yes. Zymurgy had a good article about pitching Lutra to make a psuedo lager last month. The consensus was that a large starter of Lutra made a better beer than an underpitched beer.

 

[twd000]

With my kveiks, I use a big cooler with a sous vide (for cooking) set a couple of degrees above my desired temp. They are made to run 12 to 60 hrs easily. I have had one running almost constant for a month before. It seems to be pretty darn efficient and my electric bill didn't hurt near as bad as expected.

was thinking of buying a sous vide stick to play around on some cooking projects, but haven't pulled the trigger yet

you ferment in a carboy, or kegs, or?

 

[seilenos]

I have been experimenting with kveik and had to make accommodations in my heating "chamber" which is a box built from scrap 2-by and plywood.
I have a 40W heater which I sit loosely around my plastic ferm bucket in the chamber. That just by itself can get the chamber up to around 85 F in my basement.

As I wanted to really drive the yeast up to 95-98 F I had to bring my chamber upstairs into my office, add my wife's heating pad, and cover the whole thing with a towel. With that setup I can get just to 98 F at 100% utilization on both pads. Voss drove the chamber up to 103 F (from 98 F) during high fermentation the first day. Hornidal took it to 98.5 F (from 95 F).

Instead of the pad being under the kegs can you do a "lazy S" around the front of one and the back of the other? That increased contact along the metal will do wonders in getting the temperature of the cornies up (conduction vs convection).

 

[twd000]

I have been experimenting with kveik and had to make accommodations in my heating "chamber" which is a box built from scrap 2-by and plywood.
I have a 40W heater which I sit loosely around my plastic ferm bucket in the chamber. That just by itself can get the chamber up to around 85 F in my basement.

As I wanted to really drive the yeast up to 95-98 F I had to bring my chamber upstairs into my office, add my wife's heating pad, and cover the whole thing with a towel. With that setup I can get just to 98 F at 100% utilization on both pads. Voss drove the chamber up to 103 F (from 98 F) during high fermentation the first day. Hornidal took it to 98.5 F (from 95 F).

Instead of the pad being under the kegs can you do a "lazy S" around the front of one and the back of the other? That increased contact along the metal will do wonders in getting the temperature of the cornies up (conduction vs convection).

yes last night I removed the heating pads from underneath, wrapped one around each keg and secured with bungie cords. 20W each and they're really driving some heat into the kegs and the krausen is rocking

 

[matt_m]

I did it a couple times with a sous vide cooker and it worked fine. That was 1 corny in a 10 gallon drink cooler (AKA mash tun.) But now I use two Inkbird seedling mats rubber-banded to the keg and an Inkbird controller. One mat almost worked for me but it struggled to keep up on the coldest nights. I have two wraps of reflectix over them.

 

[DuncB]

Lots of insulation below the kegs, get them off the ground if you can. I just use sleeping bag and bottles of water hot from the tap.
In my experience when the temp doesn't maintain on the kveik it's work is done. Always add extra nutrient and don't forget to scream at it. Likes a blast of oxygen as well. I do start off with it much warmer for pitching aiming plus 90 fahrenheit at least 35 celsius. If the ferment fridge is free I find I only need heat once the ferment tails off.

THat room not as warm as it looks.

 

[Knightshade]

Oh..could you just throw a keg into a jacuzzi? I usually keep mine at 103, ,maybe drop it off a couple of degrees?

 

[day_trippr]

Because everyone has a functional jacuzzi?

 

[easttex]

Because everyone has a functional jacuzzi?

You don't?!

 

[MickB]

was thinking of buying a sous vide stick to play around on some cooking projects, but haven't pulled the trigger yet

you ferment in a carboy, or kegs, or?

I use buckets and Fermzilla Allarounders. Not a fan of plastic, but I don't feel like spending the price to upgrade to stainless yet.
Also, I brew low abv meads, (some beer style), no beers.