Stuck Saison... stuck again??

[saxman1036]

Alright, here's the deal...

Saison, 5gal batch
OG 1.064
Wyeast 3724, 2 packs no starter
Fermented at 75-78deg
I measured the gravity at bottling 2.5 weeks later to be 1.030 (was hoping for something closer to 1.013). To me this indicated a stuck-fermentation, which I heard 3724 is notorious for.

I consulted my recipe, which suggested using a dry champagne yeast to finish the job if the beer doesn't attenuate enough. This was confirmed by my LHBS, where I bought a 5g pack of dry Red Star Pasteur Champagne yeast. I added this straight to the fermentor, without hydrating from fear of oxidizing the beer. 36 hours have passed and nothing appears to be happening... no bubbling, no kruesen (should there be any with this yeast, or this far into fermentation?).

My questions...
1) should I have hydrated the dry yeast before pitching it?

2) because I didn't hydrate the yeast, should I expect to wait longer for indications of active fermentation before needing to worry?

3) Since the gravity was so low when I pitched the finishing-champagne yeast (1.030), is it possible that fermentation is occurring without bubbling and kruesen?)

4) Is the whole packet of dry yeast (5g) not enough to finish the job? I have a hard time believing it would be too much...

5) is it time to toss the batch? That would be a shame, because the sample I took for my gravity reading tasted AMAZING already, and it was still at 1.030.


This is my first time dealing with a stuck fermentation, which I feel pretty fortunate about. At the same time I feel left rather clueless. Any input is appreciated!

 

[slarkin712]

You'll have to be very patient when using this yeast. You should have rehydrated the dry yeast, but some of it will have survived pitching and should start fermenting. The 3724 is stalled, but not done. It is slowly transitioning to ferment the more complex sugars. If left at a warm enough temperature it will begin to actively ferment again. The best thing that you can do is raise the temperature into the upper 80's or low 90's and just leave it alone for a few more weeks. I've used 3724 4 or 5 times, and only one time did it not stall at 1.030. Each time I raised the temp up to 90-93F and it finished within 1-3 weeks. So, do not dump, just be patient and wait.

 

[saxman1036]

You'll have to be very patient when using this yeast. You should have rehydrated the dry yeast, but some of it will have survived pitching and should start fermenting. The 3724 is stalled, but not done. It is slowly transitioning to ferment the more complex sugars. If left at a warm enough temperature it will begin to actively ferment again. The best thing that you can do is raise the temperature into the upper 80's or low 90's and just leave it alone for a few more weeks. I've used 3724 4 or 5 times, and only one time did it not stall at 1.030. Each time I raised the temp up to 90-93F and it finished within 1-3 weeks. So, do not dump, just be patient and wait.

So at this point that would require mean the beer is sitting on the trub for nearly 6 weeks... is there any with concern with that causing off-flavors? I've read that one month is the cut-off that most people use. Thanks for the response! I should be able to get it up the mid-80s, but I live in St. Paul, MN (high of -18 outside on Monday) so I'm limited with how hot I can get it without jacking the heat across the whole house.

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

Funny 3724 gave me one of the worst ferments i ever experienced before i found out its a pressure sensitive strain.
Lay a peice of clear wrap over the fermentor or just lay the top on the bucket do not seal it shut, remove the grommet and seal the port.

In combination with a good yeast rouse and temp raise (as high as 90) youll get this one done within another week.

Cheers!

 

[eastoak]

and don't listen to your LHBS. they should have been able to tell you all of this from the get go, instead they sold you 2 packs of yeast then another when you came back. 1 pack of yeast make into a starter would have gotten you where you needed to be as far as yeast count.

 

[saxman1036]

and don't listen to your LHBS. they should have been able to tell you all of this from the get go, instead they sold you 2 packs of yeast then another when you came back. 1 pack of yeast make into a starter would have gotten you where you needed to be as far as yeast count.

So, "my LHBS" in this case actually refers to the Northern Brewer in St. Paul. Despite their share of the homebrew landscape, I will admit that I know better than to go in asking for help without doing some research ahead of time. In this case, the recipe I got was from Brewing Classic Styles. Those two suggested the dry champagne yeast for finishing the saison if it stalled out and NB merely agreed with this strategy. I saw no reason to disagree with them (although after some reading I may try blending the 3724 with 3711 next time I do this recipe).

Also, I don't believe that my problems stem from lack of yeast. Two full smack packs should be plenty for a 1.064 OG. If, by chance, I got some bad smack packs from NB, under-pitching would still have amounted to more than a 53% attenuation.

 

[rappell]

I get great results with 3724 by doing a 2L starter, adding double yeast nutrient and beginning at 68 deg. As active fermentation begins to ramp up the temp, bring up the fermentation temp to 85-90 and leave it for 3 weeks then rack to secondary for a week to clean up diacytel then cold crash for 4 days @ 34.

 

[saxman1036]

Follow up...

I tried the dry champagne yeast, but that didn't budge the gravity after 10 days (probably because I didn't rehydrate it). So I went to 3711 as my last resort - bingo! Got the gravity down to 1.012, which is pretty close to what I was targeting. 80% attenuation, I'm content with that.

Thanks for the feedback everyone!


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[saxman1036]

Oh yeah, and I bottled today. Tasted pretty good considering I used three yeasts and had it sitting in primary for 6 weeks.

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