stuck/no fermentation?

[FranklinBrewer]

Followed the Edwort's apfelwein recipe to a T, except may have underpitched the yeast.... not sure if that's the problem....
I pitched about 2/3 of a dry yeast packet (Montachet's champagne yeast), and it's been in the fermenter for 8 days. I took an SG reading today and got 1.052 (OG was 1.061). I have seen no airlock activity at all yet.

Is my fermentation okay?
Does it normally take this long with Edwort's apfelwein to ferment?
I had anticipated it being much quicker.

Any suggestions?

 

[JimRausch]

Nope, sounds like your yeast is dead. You say you followed Edworts recipe , but what did you use for the apple juice/cider? Any chance it was sorbated? If there was sorbate as a preservative, then yeast reproduction won't take off, and fermentation never starts. This happened to me this fall. There are ways of overcoming the sorbate block, so if that's what happened to your batch, then let me know, and I'll let you in on my journey........

 

[FranklinBrewer]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your help. It contains ascorbic acid and pasteurised apple juice...... No sorbate...... Do you think I should pitch the yeast again?

FranklinB

 

[JimRausch]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your help. It contains ascorbic acid and pasteurised apple juice...... No sorbate...... Do you think I should pitch the yeast again?

FranklinB

Yes, I think you should repitch. And I would pitch a full packet, maybe even two at this point, just to make sure it takes off.

 

[FranklinBrewer]

Yes, I think you should repitch. And I would pitch a full packet, maybe even two at this point, just to make sure it takes off.

Thanks - btw, should i shake it or anything prior to repitching?

 

[FranklinBrewer]

Thanks - btw, should i shake it or anything prior to repitching?

never mind..... i got antsy and just tossed another packet of montrachet on it yesterday evening. I hope it takes off!

 

[FranklinBrewer]

Nope, sounds like your yeast is dead. You say you followed Edworts recipe , but what did you use for the apple juice/cider? Any chance it was sorbated? If there was sorbate as a preservative, then yeast reproduction won't take off, and fermentation never starts. This happened to me this fall. There are ways of overcoming the sorbate block, so if that's what happened to your batch, then let me know, and I'll let you in on my journey........

JIM!
I just checked the bottles I used, and there was a rogue "Apple punch" mixed into the other normal apple juices.
So I added like 5 large bottles of apple juice (no sorbate), and 1 bottle of "apple punch", which has grape juice in it and... SORBATE


What do I do to overcome the sorbate block? And since the juice/sugar mixture (along with 4 packets of dead montrachet yeast now...) has been sitting there for 15 days do you still think it can be salvaged and fermented?


Much appreciated,
Franklin

 

[Maylar]

Fermenting juice with preservatives (Sorbate and/or Benzoate) has been done via massive over pitching of yeast. Big healthy starters etc. But those preservatives will severely damage some portion of your yeast, and damaged yeast produce off flavors that don't always age out. Pretty much every case I've heard of where people have managed to overcome the chemicals has resulted in cider that tastes like crap. I hope yours is the exception.

 

[JimRausch]

Ok Franklin- here's my story (I've been waiting):
As Dave said, the way to overcome sorbate is to build up a huge overpitch of yeast.
Earlier this fall I pressed 3.5G of fresh cider. Used 2.5G in my Graf, and decided to use 1 G in a 'Cranberry cider'. My plan was to add 1G of a commercial cranberry cider and add additional cranberries in secondary. The commercial product was sorbated, but I knew that, and had overcome sorbate in previous years in my graf by starting the wort fermenting a day or two before adding the cider. I started the 1G of fresh juice with 1 pkt of Munton's yeast. The following day it looked like it had taken off, so I added the commercial stuff, added the airlock and left it alone. Two weeks later, as is my routine, I checked the SG= exactly same as the OG. Damn. Added 2 more packets of Muntons. 1 week later it had dropped 5 points, a measly 5. I was racking an altbier so I rehydrated 2 cans of frozen apple juice and added 1 pint of the WY1007 slurry. This took off big time, but I waited 2 more days before adding it to the nonpreforming cider. 2 weeks later it had reached FG, although a good 5 points above where I was expecting(FG=1.005). I was lucky that it never got contaminated before I pitched the WY1007. I bottled it with 1/2 can fajc then cooler pasteurized it when it reached an adequate carbonation level. It's OK, but with all that fajc, it tastes more like a fizzy, alcoholic apple juice rather than cider.
SO..... if you want to save this batch, (and it hasn't gotten contaminated) then I would recommend you make a huge starter. Maybe do like I did and start a gallon of nonsorbated cider/juice and add that to your batch when you're sure it's fermenting bigtime. Good luck!!!

 

[FranklinBrewer]

Thanks folks.... I just saw your replies NOW.....

Here's an update on my situation/progress.....

OG 1.061
8 day SG 1.052
13 day SG 1.044
18 day SG 1.012

Today is day 18.... Guess it is fermenting, albeit slowly and without airlock activity... I guess it's cause I'm using a home depot bucket with a lid that isn't air tight.

I was shocked to see the SG had dropped so much. I was planning on scrapping the whole batch today before I took an SG.

To be safe and efficient, I pitched 2 rehydrated packets of lalvin champagne yeast a couple hours ago. I'm hoping to get FG down to about 1.002 within a couple weeks so I can bottle and drink some for new years.

Thanks again for your help.... If this doesn't work and the SG still isn't dropping, I may make this giant starter you are talking about. I suspect since most of my apple juice didn't have sorbate, I may be OK