Stovetop brewing on a (relatively) small stove

[rmeskill]

Hey all-so I used to brew back home (or, more accurately, was an assistant for a friend who brewed properly) and now that I've moved to Europe I'd love to get back into it. Come to find out there's a brew shop literally a block away from my house, which is stupifyingly convenient, so I'm eager to get started, but I have some issues with how to go about proper stovetop brewing (we did a propane tank with a huge burner and 15 gallon pot back home). The largest fermentation vessels they have are 30 liters, which is just under 8 gallons, so fine for a 6-6.5 gallon batch, but I'm worried about being able to get that much water up to boil for an all-grain brew on a stovetop. I could go with smaller batches, which is fine, but I have a couple factors I was hoping for some thoughts on.

1) In everyone's experience, what is the largest batch size you can do on a stove? I know there have been a bunch of older threads on this, along with the thermo-wrap blanket on a kettle, but I'm just talking for single-burner, unassisted, aluminum-sandwiched-bottom kettles, what's roughly the largest batch of decent rolling boil you can get
2) Given that, has anyone tried to go with double-burner as an option? My stove is a small European stove but still with normal size burners, so the distance between my burners is surprisingly small. Forgive me for the centimeters, but given that's what all the products here are it'll be easier. My two big burners are 24cm apart, centered, with a 38cm total burn area. I can get a 40cm wide 33 liter pot or 45cm wide 45 liter pot (but they're squat, 26cm tall or 30cm tall, respectively). Does anyone have experience using two burners and whether the relative wideness of the pot would be more than offset by the double burner? If I got a REALLY big pot of like 60 liters I might be able to use all 4, but that seems a bit extravagent.

I think that's mostly it-just trying to figure out where to go with this-outdoor brewing isn't an option, so I guess my only choices are finding a way to make this work inside or giving up entirely, which isn't really an option, is it?

Thanks all!

-Ryan

 

[Weezy]

I'd recommend two smaller pots, one for stove top mash and one for sparge water, and split the boil. Use a bag so you can dunk sparge. Boil 2-3 gallons in each and just top off the fermenters.

Did you consider doing half sized batches?

 

[vincentAlpha]

Weezy's got the right idea. I used 2 16L pots for batches to fill my cornies and just split it right down the middle. I don't think you'd have much luck going bigger than that but my stove can get a rolling boil going without too much work since each winds up with about 12-14L in them. Mash and sparge water doesn't typically push the pots to their limits and if they do I have a small kettle that can eek out another litre or so pretty quickly. Also makes hop additions pretty simple when the volume is the same.

 

[rmeskill]

Ahh, well done-I hadn't considered this. We used to do a proper sparge, but when we switched to outdoor brewing in 13 gallon batches we just started going with the sparge-in-the-boil-bag option-it was far simpler for our sakes. I guess I'm going to need to find a proper false-bottomed sparge pot here, now, but yeah-that should make things far easier. I've never tried before, but can you do the primary boil in the same pot you'll be doing the sparge in? Meaning I'd only need two kettles, one with the false bottom for the boil/sparge and one for the sparge water? Don't want to overinvest here if I don't have to-I'm short on space in my apartment...

 

[vincentAlpha]

I don't see any reason why you couldn't, though I'm not terribly familiar with the BIAB method. You could also get a manifold/mashtun system going. I use a generic 24L pail (food safe I'm fairly sure, used for maple syrup here) that I've rigged a ball-valve to. It serves double duty as a mash tun when I insulate it and a bottling bucket later on (if bottling). I built a CPVC manifold for fairly little, probably no more than $10 in parts here.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I would consider a heat stick to supplement the stove, as even if the stove can get to a boil, it will likely be painfully slow.

 

[rmeskill]

Dunno where I'd find a heat stick here, but I'll have a go at finding one...

 

[heckels]

I would consider a heat stick to supplement the stove, as even if the stove can get to a boil, it will likely be painfully slow.

This.

There are DIY options to build your own heat stick. Just do a quick google search. In Europe it'd likely be 240v but the rest should still apply.

You could also piece one together that would be a little cleaner looking with tri clamp parts from Brewershardware or somewhere similar in Europe.

 

[Calichusetts]

I do 3.5 gallon batches on my stove, traditional mash, etc. I can boil about 6 gallons. Instead of two pots, consider the newer "tall boy" kettles. They are slimmer and taller and might fit better on an element. I get 5 gallons of wort up to a boil in about 20 minutes.

Consider insulating your kettle as well. And as pointed out, a cheap heat stick might help get you to the boil.

 

[Avocado_Power]

I'd recommend you take a look at the 1-gallon homebrewers unite thread on HBT - we have a vibrant community of apt-dwellers there. It's not exclusively 1-gallon brewing - you can do 2 gallons or 2.5 as well and still be allowed to post

Seriously though, a lot of your questions on how to make it work are answered there. I'd recommend for the moment to not go higher than half batches (2.5 gallons). I've used two burners at once on the stove before, but it made weird black marks on the pot and the stove itself. Best part of small batch brewing is that you get to experiment more!

 

[Avocado_Power]

Oh I forgot - DEFINITELY do BIAB.

 

[rmeskill]

Thanks all-I'm getting all my supplies on Friday, so I'll probably be brewing this weekend-I'll let you know how it all goes!

 

[Pappers_]

Where in Europe have you moved to?

 

[rmeskill]

Budapest, which, whilst it has spectacular wine, is starkly short on good beer. Just a few big-label tasteless pislners and their occasionally dark derivatives. Never cloned back home, but I reckon I'll be mostly starting by cloning to get started to stock up on all the beers I missed from home!

And the one bonus to living in Europe, i suppose, is that I found a ready-made, 1000W heat stick for $27 in the first shop I tried!

 

[vincentAlpha]

Nice, though as for the heat stick isn't that a bit low on wattage considering your are running 240V out there? Someone else feel free to chip in, I've not built one myself but was planning on it... you know... at some point .

 

[madscientist451]

I run 4.5 gallon stovetop brews , mash in a cooler with a bag, collect about 5.5 gal pre boil , but my pot is only 6 gallon, so I boil 4 gallons or so in main pot and 1.5 gallon in smaller pot, after hot break and about 20 mins I combine the pots and just use the big one. I divide up early addition hops appropriate amounts. Chill in ice bath in old washtub outside.
4 gallon in fermenter, 1/2 gal. kettle trub.
Somewhat of a hassle, but then I don't have to get out propane tank & burner and sometimes its really cold and windy and or rainy so I'm an inside brewer for now.
How are you going to chill the wort in your apartment?
Homebrewing should be a great way to make new friends in a new city. Good luck and Cheers!

 

[rmeskill]

It might not be the highest wattage, but according to this thread it should be fine:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/1000w-water-heater-sufficient-boiling-3gallons-water-377145/

Coupled with the fact that I'll be running the burner on the stove at the same time, I'd reckon this should help at speeding up getting to/maintaining the boil.

 

[Pappers_]

Budapest, which, whilst it has spectacular wine, is starkly short on good beer. Just a few big-label tasteless pislners and their occasionally dark derivatives. Never cloned back home, but I reckon I'll be mostly starting by cloning to get started to stock up on all the beers I missed from home!

And the one bonus to living in Europe, i suppose, is that I found a ready-made, 1000W heat stick for $27 in the first shop I tried!

Very cool. I know its not made in Hungary, but can you get Budvar/Czechvar there? That has recently become my favorite Czech pilsner - just a delicious beer.

And I think there are probably many bonuses to living in Europe. Enjoy the adventure!

 

[rmeskill]

I can actually *get* lots of beers from around the world here in shops (there's one called 'Csak a jó sörök!' which means 'Only good beers', and I can get lots of great beers from all over, including some favorites from back home, but they're $3-5/330ml bottle-fine for the occasional bottle, but a bit pricey compared to ~$.75 for a 'good' Hungarian 500ml beer. But yes, Budvar is here-it's actually called Budweiser here because American Bud can't argue their trademark is older in Europe. And, on the bright side, great obscure Belgian beer's far cheaper than it is back in most of the States!

 

[rmeskill]

Ok, so first batch went great so far. Hit my planned OG, boil went fine, and it's already bubbling in the primary, barely 15 hours after pitching the yeast. The question now is, if I want to scale up, how can I accomplish that? I have a 21 liter kettle, and I don't think I can get my stove to boil more than that on a single burner. If I went for a 5 gallon recipe (~19 liters), for a planned 90 minute boil, BeerSmith estimates I'd need a 26 liter starting boil, though my math puts me at ~23 liters (at a 13.5% loss rate). I probably can't boil more than about 15 liters at a time in that kettle-I could potentially split it into a 15 liter and 5 liter kettle for the boil, but then what, do I just top up with an extra 4 liters of water at the end in the fermenter? I've never tried topping up before-is there anything fancier than boiling water, letting it cool, and dropping it in with the actual boiled wort?

 

[wilserbrewer]

I would think your stove burner and a 1000 w stick could do five gallons. Might take a while...be patient...

 

[Weezy]

You absolutely can top off in the fermenter. Do what is convenient and feels right for you and your brew process.

 

[rmeskill]

Never got around to posting a reply. Started with what was supposed to be a 20l kettle (~5 gallons), but it definitely didn't hold that and certainly wasn't enough for a 19l/5g batch. So I've tasked that as my sparge water pot and bought a new 30l kettle (~8 gallons), which is *just* enough to do a 19l/5g batch. With a lid on it'll sit at a steady boil with just the stove, though it takes forever to get there. With the stick heater it will maintain a full rolling boil with the lid off (though I lose a bit more to evaporation and it still takes forever to get there).

So yeah, come a long way in the past couple months-have an English Brown Ale, ESB, and Northern Alt in bottles and a Red Rye and Leffe Blonde clone in fermenters. Been a good few brews-thanks for the help and advice!