Stone to layoff employees
- Thread starter ImNoExpert
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
That's certainly a well reasoned argument. Especially since you don't indicate any information based on the business challenges and planning of the company.
Perhaps, cutting 5% will help insure the jobs of the other 95% and the long term survival of the brewery!
Perhaps, cutting 5% will help insure the jobs of the other 95% and the long term survival of the brewery!
Care to enlighten us on how you are so sure they 'don't need it to survive'? Or maybe your MBA, your business ownership, business management, or your $50,000 a year spent on marketing/trends in craft beer industry as a whole is what tells you that [emoji57]
akthor
Well-Known Member
I've seen pics of their brewpub alone out there on the west coast and i was like "wow" it was really amazing but I was also thinking you'd have to sell an awful lot of pints just to pay for all that let alone make money.
Look...Stone management got them in this situation...but it is the workers at the bottom who have to suffer for it...it's that way with most companies...management refuses to take the hit for their miscalculations...Have you tasted that spin off AB brewery AB...
Overpriced here in MI.
There have been an explosion of local microbrews here in SE over the last 5-10 years. Everyone and their brother are making beer. Can get similar or better beer that's not as old and cheaper.
dallasdb
Well-Known Member
From what I understand most alcohol in Canada is more expensive but that's partially due to higher taxes. Is the $18.90 in Canadian dollars? If so it'd be around $15 in USD. Still more expensive but just saying.
Alcohol in Colorado is quite a bit more expensive than in California. I think that is due to liquor laws in Colorado. They can generally only sell 3.2% in grocery stores due to liquor licensing. Colorado doesn't allow chains to sell liquor in all stores so there is only one or two locations of a certain chain that is allowed to sell liquor and beer that isn't 3.2%.
dallasdb
Well-Known Member
And laying off employees is just the eb and flow of business. Happens in all industries.
Behavioral economics has shown that it's better for moral to layoff 5% of employees than to reduce overall salaries by 5% and keep all staff.
If you reduce salaries it leads to an overall decline in moral and unhappy staff as a whole versus the layoff.
Behavioral economics has shown that it's better for moral to layoff 5% of employees than to reduce overall salaries by 5% and keep all staff.
If you reduce salaries it leads to an overall decline in moral and unhappy staff as a whole versus the layoff.
That's your defense? Management sucks and every armchair manager and worker bee out there knows their company better than they do? You mean the same management that built that company from nothing to worldwide distribution? The same management that has kept thousands of people employed for years? The same management that knew what it was like to struggle before they became big? The same management that brought in an extremely intelligent individual with a track record of success that most people could only dream of to run the day to day operations exactly because they were smart enough to know when they had reached their knowledge and experience threshold??? Is that the management to which you refer?
Then again don't know why I bother, these kinds of discussions are never ones of equal intellect.
Brewenstein
Well-Known Member
I find that typically, layoffs are a sort of last resort for companies that find they've over reached in expansion efforts and must dial back for a time in order to ensure future success. Layoffs always come at a high cost beyond dollars and cents, affecting morale and perception of a company. Management knows this and only lays off when it has become absolutely necessary for the future of a company.
JDWebb
Well-Known Member
One thing to remember, companies don't do business because they're bored, of they have the prettiest product, or the tastiest one, they do business to make money. THAT is the bottom line. Consumers will always think they come first, they don't. The profit line does. If you don't believe that, don't ever start a business or you will fail.
Well...Us working folks from the holler could never hope to be on equal inteelect with you gentle folk from up Chicago way...And yes that is the management team, I'm calling out for their miscalculations...and I'm entitled to my opinion that most people who throw the inteellect card shouldn't...
Me too, the local brewery I support is as good and it's very local and $0.35 a glass
Please tell me where in the Newark area beer is $0.35 per glass.
35 cents!?
I'll be there. Tomorrow!
From i gathered from the article i read this morning it sounded like stone may have been constantly bulking up on employees year after year cause they were constantly having large growth every year and they probably are just starting get to the point where they need to normalize.
Lol kinda made my point for me..... I'm not now or ever have been from anywhere near Chicago.
The part about Koch's investment in true craft is pretty interesting. $100m investment firm to buy small stakes in craft breweries so they can get cash and grow without "selling out"
NoIguanaForZ
Well-Known Member
...are you getting paid for writing this?
Since you brought up the issue: Regurgitating empty slogans and marketing/management dogma and trying to shift the burden of proof certainly underscores your intellectual superiority.
Ha, nope. I just have spent my life working my way from worker bee to upper management in my profession, educating myself in business and have a clear understanding of what it takes to work, create and survive with a business. My responses may have been a bit snarky, and for that I apologize. I just have a low tolerance for people that don't truly understand, nor TRY to understand what it takes to keep a consumer driven business running and growing. I have been taught to look outside of oneself and see the whole picture. I am loyal to, and believe in, the concept of the American dream. Albeit naive, it's how I was raised and is my opinion. Many have stated theirs, and I applaud them for that, I simply ask that we discuss these issues with open minds.
With that, for my part, I am done discussing an issue that is neither ours to decide, nor Stone's to justify/prove. They made a business decision and our reactions to that decision are ours to decide individually. No different than the current political situation, all I ask is we base those decisions/reactions on (somehow) unbiased information.
MidAtlanticBrew
Well-Known Member
NoIguanaForZ
Well-Known Member
Of course it's theirs to justify/prove. They want us to give them our money.
Anyway, it's not the snark I object to; it's the smuggardry coupled to an argument which is reducible to "
Well, how much did they pay this 1 guy to come in and lead the show?
Probably could have paid that 5% a lifetime salary of work and then some.
The dollar bill seems to defy gravity. It only moves up... never down.
Miller Lite wins a ton of awards too. So...
Barley_Bob
Well-Known Member
Sooo... clearly they have excellent brand recognition and marketing.
skraeling
Scientist Extraordinaire
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2013
- Messages
- 721
- Reaction score
- 285
Dynachrome
Well-Known Member
Comment deleted.
Stone makes some really good beers. Their Enjoy By series is almost always heavenly and I LOVE the concept. I rarely see that beer in stores past the expiration date...wish I could say the same about other beers. I really think it is criminal that delicious IPAs sit on the shelf for >3 months and (less informed) people buy them. This is an argument for supporting local breweries, because in general they are small and don't make enough product to languish on shelves. That said, I see DC Brau cans that are > 6 months old too. Ugh! I think this is the challenge for Stone's new CEO...make all of their beers as fresh as possible and do not put product in areas where it will languish. Part of this is proper pricing, and a lot of it is good inventory management. Ideas like Enjoy By are innovative and I appreciate them because it is CLEARLY stated on the label to enjoy the beer in just a few weeks. I drink beer from a lot of breweries, both local and national (and homebrew, naturally). I want my beer fresh and at the right price point, just as most do. I will continue to drink Stone beers and brew clones of them (esp. AB!). Glad the Richmond plant is underway as that can only mean more FRESH beers...however, if they sell pallets of IPA to Total Beverage, I will be that guy checking dates on bottles and passing when TB buys too much and beers stale on their shelves. I don't play the price game...I buy what I want and I brew what I want. I love Trillium, for instance, but since I can only get it a couple of times a year, I brew clones in between to get me through.
It is also interesting to listen to folks on here talking about how expensive this beer or that beer is. It really is a factor of location. For instance, when I am in a DC bar, I am expecting to pay around $8-9 for a full pour of about anything. When I fly out to Seattle, I am paying a third to a half that!! I am sure that makes it tough for a national company like Stone to properly price their beer. In San Diego, they may get 2x what they get in heartland, so do they price everything the same and not sell in some regions? I don't know what they do frankly, but it is an interesting problem...that the new CEO has.
As far as his decision to layoff some folks, I really don't have enough information to comment on that. If you feel it is a d!ck move, vote with your wallet. There are a TON of choices, and everyone will have to make his own decision. As for me, I am going to pick up a sixer of the latest EB tomorrow. YMMV! Cheers!
It is also interesting to listen to folks on here talking about how expensive this beer or that beer is. It really is a factor of location. For instance, when I am in a DC bar, I am expecting to pay around $8-9 for a full pour of about anything. When I fly out to Seattle, I am paying a third to a half that!! I am sure that makes it tough for a national company like Stone to properly price their beer. In San Diego, they may get 2x what they get in heartland, so do they price everything the same and not sell in some regions? I don't know what they do frankly, but it is an interesting problem...that the new CEO has.
As far as his decision to layoff some folks, I really don't have enough information to comment on that. If you feel it is a d!ck move, vote with your wallet. There are a TON of choices, and everyone will have to make his own decision. As for me, I am going to pick up a sixer of the latest EB tomorrow. YMMV! Cheers!
Desertbrewer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2015
- Messages
- 100
- Reaction score
- 24
My parents are in a bowling league down in North County SD with a bunch of Stone sales reps, drivers and some brewery workers, many of them having worked for Stone for 10+ years. Last week they went to league night and half of the guys didn't show cause they were laid off. My parents said one of the guys that remained has been working in distribution for them for 15 years and he thinks this coming week will be another whole round of layoffs.
It's a bummer when a "good company" that these guys loved to work for does them dirty like that. That's business I suppose.
I'll update if they get anymore pertinent info as to what's happening.
It's a bummer when a "good company" that these guys loved to work for does them dirty like that. That's business I suppose.
I'll update if they get anymore pertinent info as to what's happening.
Gerry_P
Well-Known Member
It makes sense that Stone would be suffering because of the massive numbers of new breweries, who hope to take advantage of the craft beer craze, popping up everywhere. Many of them are selling mediocre products at inflated prices, and many of them will probably go out of business in a few years after things die down. Stone is practically an institution among craft breweries, they aren't going anywhere.
OP
OP
I don't get that. All I hear about is how rocking the craft beer industry is. If competition is seriously putting that much of a dent in Stone's sales wouldn't that imply that Stone is falling behind as an industry innovator, thus not staying relevant to craft beer drinker's tastes?
That or the industry is hitting the ceiling on the market and Stone is adapting to it.
iijakii
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily. The better (which is a bad term for me to use since we're talking about personal taste) product doesn't necessarily win. Even if you love Stone, you see three new IPAs on the shelf you've never tried before, odds are you might give 'em a shot. Even if you go back to Stone, that's putting a dent in their sales.
We've also been seeing a rise in people paying attention to where their food is coming from and aiming for local sourcing, same seems to be true for beverages as well. I have to go to the good beer stores to get more than two different Stone offerings. Wasn't the case years ago, but there are more breweries than shelf space these days.
Gerry_P
Well-Known Member
Good points. I'm speculating here, but maybe it has something to do with Stone being mainly associated with IPA style beers. There's about a bazillion IPAs on the market now, so I wouldn't be surprised if Stone is seeing a dip in sales because of that simply because it's getting lost in the pile. Maybe the renewed interest in patronizing local breweries is a factor too. There could also be a mindset, particularly among some newer craft beer enthusiasts, that newer is better so they think Stone isn't cool or something. Maybe the demons on their bottles are scaring people, idk. I'm blaming aliens.
Stone brewery replied to the lay-offs
http://www.craftbrewingbusiness.com/news/stone-brewing-sends-two-statements-layoffs-one-specifically-richmond-rumors/
http://www.craftbrewingbusiness.com/news/stone-brewing-sends-two-statements-layoffs-one-specifically-richmond-rumors/
Gerry_P
Well-Known Member
I swear I wrote my comment before yours popped up. Great minds, etc.
Barley_Bob
Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing this.
Around here, even bottled AB products are 8 bucks a six pack (Michelobe)
Sam Adams are 8-9 a sixer pre-tax and IMHO the best deal on craft brew is Boulevard and they are over 8 after tax.
My point is that ten a sixer isn't too outrageous.
But there is an old saying......"Any item is only worth what you can suckeer somebody into paying for it." If you feel that ten dollars is too much for their product, don't buy it. If you do feel that it is a fair price by all means go ahead and buy it.
Similar threads
