Stir-in DME While Waiting for Boil?

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foam_top

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Is there any reason I shouldn't stir in the DME while waiting for the boil? I know late extract editions help with color but right now I'm more concerned with convenience than cosmetics. Many of us brewers were instructed to remove the kettle from the heat when adding extract. I understand the logic is to prevent scorching and maybe boil-overs. However, whenever I have done this I lose a considerable amount of temperature and sometimes it takes 10+ minutes to get back to a boil. What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance.
 
I would only add half at the beginning. I add it off the heat but before it boils so there is less steam making the DME clump. I then add the rest at the end of the boil. Sometimes right after turning off the heat. Adding the second half at the end helps keep the color from getting too dark.
 
I would only add half at the beginning. I add it off the heat but before it boils so there is less steam making the DME clump. I then add the rest at the end of the boil. Sometimes right after turning off the heat. Adding the second half at the end helps keep the color from getting too dark.

That's another thing I've always wondered about... doesn't having a lower gravity boil change the hop distribution, or is it only the volume of the wort that it affects?
 
That's another thing I've always wondered about... doesn't having a lower gravity boil change the hop distribution, or is it only the volume of the wort that it affects?

I don't know. I have heard that it does, but have not noticed much of a difference. I have not done any testing.
 
I don't know. I have heard that it does, but have not noticed much of a difference. I have not done any testing.

Well, if that's true I would assume the lower the gravity the more hop distribution (more IBUs). I have no science grounded in that statement but it seems like the wort being thinner would contribute more hop bitterness. Thanks for your input.
 
I don't know. I have heard that it does, but have not noticed much of a difference. I have not done any testing.

Well, if that's true I would assume the lower the gravity the more hop distribution (more IBUs). I have no science grounded in that statement but it seems like the wort being thinner would contribute more hop bitterness. Thanks for your input.

Hop utilization (alpha acid isomerization), which creates the bitterness, decreases when wort gravity increases. There are tables to calculate that. How to Brew has one. Hop utilization also goes down at lower temps, like boils done at higher altitudes.

Using half the extract for the boil then adding the balance at flameout is common practice among those who know. It prevents over-caramelization and excessive wort darkening. It's some of the most useful left-out information in all kits, especially when doing partial boils with top up water. Yet they still tell the brewer to secondary after x days...
 
Hop utilization also goes down at lower temps, like boils done at higher altitudes.

I live in Denver, is there something I should be doing to compensate for the high altitude? I've noticed with some of the hoppier kits I've done in the past (like the Dead Ringer IPA for example) wasn't as bitter as I expected them to be.
 
That's another thing I've always wondered about... doesn't having a lower gravity boil change the hop distribution, or is it only the volume of the wort that it affects?

It's the volume, generally. For example, say you have an initial boil volume of 2.5 gallons. If you get, say, 75 IBUs in that wort, when you dilute it by another 2.5 gallons at the end, you will automatically have 37.5 IBUs (or less, if you could boil off volume) at the end right there.

Hop utilization (alpha acid isomerization), which creates the bitterness, decreases when wort gravity increases. There are tables to calculate that. How to Brew has one. Hop utilization also goes down at lower temps, like boils done at higher altitudes.

Using half the extract for the boil then adding the balance at flameout is common practice among those who know. It prevents over-caramelization and excessive wort darkening. It's some of the most useful left-out information in all kits, especially when doing partial boils with top up water. Yet they still tell the brewer to secondary after x days...

That is true, but............... in the last few years it's been shown (by John Palmer himself, among others) that IBUs really aren't that impacted by wort gravity as previously thought. The thing is, the IBU calculators do use wort gravity as a base but the calculations aren't that great.

It's been shown that a calculated IBU does not actually meet the IBUs when the beer is tested in many many cases.
 
I live in Denver, is there something I should be doing to compensate for the high altitude? I've noticed with some of the hoppier kits I've done in the past (like the Dead Ringer IPA for example) wasn't as bitter as I expected them to be.

Basically, boil more vigorously and/or add an extra percentage of hops responsible for bittering to the recipe to make up for the difference.

The difference between 10 and 20 IBU is very detectable, while that between 80 and 90 is not as easy. There's real bitterness (e.g., IBUs, % of isomerized AA) and perceptive bitterness, accentuated by certain ions, like Mg++ and to some degree, SO4--. Then there's hoppiness, the flavor and aroma of hops, independent from bitterness, such as perceived in NE IPAs.

Old but useful article.

http://byo.com/hops/item/752-high-elevation-brewing

Under utilization of hops is your biggest concern.

That sums it up nicely!
 
[...] That is true, but............... in the last few years it's been shown (by John Palmer himself, among others) that IBUs really aren't that impacted by wort gravity as previously thought. The thing is, the IBU calculators do use wort gravity as a base but the calculations aren't that great.

It's been shown that a calculated IBU does not actually meet the IBUs when the beer is tested in many many cases.

Many brewing concepts are being investigated and adjusted, especially when it comes to new world beers and brewing on homebrew scale. We borrowed the concepts from the pros, but on (smaller) homebrew scale those mechanisms work a bit differently.
 
Basically, boil more vigorously and/or add an extra percentage of hops responsible for bittering to the recipe to make up for the difference.

I'm guessing another option is to substitute hops with approx. the same increase in alpha acids (in my case 19%) where practical. Unless there's some type of multiplier in the isomerization process. I'm not sure what that formula looks like.

Anyway, I think I'll take the advice of Mark Garetz and not stress it too much.
 
I'm guessing another option is to substitute hops with approx. the same increase in alpha acids (in my case 19%) where practical. Unless there's some type of multiplier in the isomerization process. I'm not sure what that formula looks like.

Anyway, I think I'll take the advice of Mark Garetz and not stress it too much.

No, hops are what they are, selected for their contributions to the beer, and come in whatever %AA the harvest yielded that year. You adjust hop additions to get the same AAUs.

For example, a recipe calling for a bittering addition of 2 oz Magnum @13% AA Hop (AAU=2x13=26) needs to be adjusted for the 10% AA of the Magnum at hand. So 26 AAU/10 %AA = 1.3 oz of that Magnum needed.

I think I've seen altitude corrected utilization tables posted somewhere. IIRC the Hops book has them too. You would use those, if the difference is significant.

If you feel the hop bittering in your beers are less than expected, just add more bittering and/or early addition hops. If flavor and aroma are lacking add more hops in the whirlpool or hopstand and dry hop additions, allow more time for them, more agitation, etc., or a combination of them.

I've been raising the IBUs in my recipes to get closer to what I want, in the finished beer. If Beersmith tells me 105 IBUs, and I know I'm only getting 80-85 from what I can taste, then so be it. I hear you about bittering not matching the expectation, such as in clone recipes.
 

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