Stc-1000+

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Here's what the one I got from Amazon/Lerway last week looks like. Terminals are the 'good' style, but the board is vastly different - lots more parts on main board at other end of display board, and the printing on the orange transformer is on the side, not the top.

STC1000.jpg
 
jleiii said:
Here's what the one I got from Amazon/Lerway last week looks like. Terminals are the 'good' style, but the board is vastly different - lots more parts on main board at other end of display board, and the printing on the orange transformer is on the side, not the top.
Click to expand...

SO there is a third type now!
 
Do you have a link to your eBay page? I'll buy a couple just to help you get rid of them, plus I don't mind the basic stc1000. I do want a black box soon though.

Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
@alphaomega: Thanks for creating this custom firmware, and for taking the time to create the manual on how to flash it to the STC-1000.

I have never used Arduino before, but I just flashed my unit successfully.

Thanks! :tank:
 
alphaomega said:
Holy fermentation controller batman!

Ok, I haven't really done much code wise or so this weekend, but I think it has been a pretty good one for the STC-1000+ project anyway. I think that using $5 equipment for a programmer is pretty cool, when the intended programmer (PIC kit 2) costs probably 10-15 times more.

And today I made another discovery. I noticed that just next to the screw terminal for the thermistor, there is an unused solder pad.


It just 'happens' to be routed to ISCPCLK, the only pin not used in normal conditions (i.e. when not flashing). In the picture you can see that there even are pads for an SMD resistor and SMD capacitor (R3 and C3), same as for the NTC input (R2 and C2, to the right in the pic, but kind of unreadable...). And yes, RA1 (the generic pin that ICSPCLK is on) also functions as A/D.
It is "almost" as someone designed this board to be able to handle TWO thermistor inputs. :rockin:

Why is this awesome? Well, it seems that with a little bit of soldering, and some cheap SMD components off ebay and some of blood, sweat and code (at least on my part), we could have an extra temperature input. This could be used for things like measuring fridge temperature, making sure it does not shoot off too far before beer temp catches up (limit over/under-shoot). Or when I get around to finishing my mash firmware, you could measure mash temp AND output temp from RIMS.
Heck, if you are able to code yourself, you could use it for anything. Not only an input. SSR output? Float switch?
I am gonna try to enable a secondary temp reading. Personally I think it would be cool (pun intended) to be able to set limits on fridge temp (like the hysteresis).

As best I know now, what you would need is a new 3 pole screw terminal (5mm pitch) to replace the 2 pole. And an SMD resistor and capacitor (probably 0603 form factor) and an extra NTC thermistor (B3435). The resistor is 10K with as good accuracy as possible (1%?, this is part of the voltage divider with the NTC). The capacitor should not be as critical, from what I could find with google 10-100uF is prolly in the right range.

Cheers!
Click to expand...

I went through this entire thread last night looking to see if there was any info on the 'bad' boards that suggests they might also be flashable, but found nothing. This post is of particular interest, though. The 'third' style board that I just got from Lerway also has the exact same setup alphaomega describes here. This suggests these may be just variations of the same units, and got me wondering.....can it be flashed as well?

I did some research, and it looks promising. This one uses the HT66F40. From the data sheet it has 4kx15 program memory, 198x8 data memory and 128x8 eeprom.
There are 5 labeled pads: GND, RST, VCC, NTC1, and NTC2. NTC1 connects to the 'common' pin of the RTD connector. NTC2 and RST connect to pins on the display board. Based on the data sheet programming notes, it is very likely it can be programmed in the same was as the others, Data, Clock, Reset, VDD and VSS. While I have 40+ yrs of electronics background, I'm not in a position to work through this on my own. My last hands on with processors was with 8008 and 6809 (for those that might remember them). I would be happy to assist in any way I can if someone with PIC experience wants to take the lead. If this board starts showing up regularly it would expand the options for reprogramming.

I really 'need' 2 flashed ones for my lager chambers, but so far I'm 0 for 5 (of 6) on the ones I've gotten over the last 2 yrs, and won't buy any more until we have a confirmed source. The 6th one is in a cooler, and not easily accessed, but it's a full 2 yrs old. Being able to flash these others would be helpful for me! I'm on the pre-sale for the Fastrack Fermenter which is way too big to put in my fermentation chambers, and will be adding temperature control to that once I get it in the fall, so I'll be needing another controller eventually.

wilconrad, what 'bad' boards did you get?
I added my email to your wait list as a backup plan, but I want the 'bare' units you mentioned on your site, as I will swap them into my enclosure.
 
Well, I think I did some research on the matter. If I remember correctly, then this MCU should be supported by SDCC, which is positive. The general hardware specs seem somewhat similar, which is also positive. On the downside, this is a completely different architecture and while the code probably could be ported, it would be a non trivial task and one might be forced to make trade offs. This is not a PIC, and the sketch for uploading will need to be completely rewritten for this arch.
The biggest issue would probably be that I can't find a decent enough datasheet and specifically data on the programming interface and protocol. I also don't have access to any such unit, so even with the specs, I can't do much.
I would absolutely give porting a shot, but without the prerequisites there is just no chance. So if you want to see this happen, try and find some good data sheet and specifically data on how programming the MCU is performed.
It sounds like Will might have found a good source for 'good' units, so I think your best bet is to try and source one from him.
Cheers!
 
I linked to the data sheet in the post. 300 pages.
I'll study it more and see what I can learn. My last experience with programming devices was eeprom and epld's so I'm behind the times, by decades.
 
Yeah, and that's the one I've been looking at, and while it ha some good info it says nothing about the programming specifications, which we need if we are to use cheap arduinos to program the thing.
I just remembered, it might even be required to buy development tools from holtek. Depending on cost, it could be one way to go. Then the programming protocol could probably be reverse engineered, if no other source of this info could be found.
I'm just saying, there would probably be a long way to go to get this done.
It would be cool to attempt, but there are a lot of issues in the way, and some may not be practically 'solvable'. More info is needed. It would be interesting to know what the cost is of the Holtek dev tools for one.

I'd say your programming history is a good one for this even if rusty. This is pretty low level stuff, it is better to have a general understanding of digital electronics and processor architechture than being a java or html god. This is not rocket science, but can be cryptic if you are used to work at higher levels of abstraction.
 
There is a USB interface board, EIC-300, but I can't find any links to the board itself. I found the user guide, pretty simple, and they have all the software downloadable. Sounds easy, if you can find the board.

All depends on whether this version of the STC shows up regularly. Not worth it for 1.

I looked at the data sheet again, and I see what you mean on the programming. Pretty basic info.
 
@Alphaomega - I'm interested in logging this data. I have an arduino wifi shield and I would love to be able to remotely monitor temps. Would it be possible to leave the arduino connected and either

A - pass it temp data via the programming header
B - set up the recently discovered pin as serial and pass data
C - do some type of pwm on/off of the pin as a last resort (ie full off=32deg full on=100deg?)

I'm assuming that the stc doesn't currently pass any data out. You have mentioned code size hitting the limit, how hard would any of this be? I have worked with arduinos often, but not PIC.

Also, thank you for all of your work on this. This is fun.
 
jleiii said:
There is a USB interface board, EIC-300, but I can't find any links to the board itself. I found the user guide, pretty simple, and they have all the software downloadable. Sounds easy, if you can find the board.

All depends on whether this version of the STC shows up regularly. Not worth it for 1.

I looked at the data sheet again, and I see what you mean on the programming. Pretty basic info.
Click to expand...

That is interesting. Do you have any link?
All I've found is that you need the dev tools (ht-ide 3000) which seems to be around 300 bucks on ebay. It is not easy finding good info on these though. From what I van tell they seem popular enough, due to good quality and low price, but the datasheet i the only hard info I've found this far.

ross_daly said:
@Alphaomega - I'm interested in logging this data. I have an arduino wifi shield and I would love to be able to remotely monitor temps. Would it be possible to leave the arduino connected and either

A - pass it temp data via the programming header
B - set up the recently discovered pin as serial and pass data
C - do some type of pwm on/off of the pin as a last resort (ie full off=32deg full on=100deg?)

I'm assuming that the stc doesn't currently pass any data out. You have mentioned code size hitting the limit, how hard would any of this be? I have worked with arduinos often, but not PIC.

Also, thank you for all of your work on this. This is fun.
Click to expand...

I would suggest you splice the ntc connector to your arduino as well (into an analog in pin). You'd need to make sure you feed the correct wire to agnd and the other to the input pin (you can check with a voltmeter). Then use the lookup table from the stc-1000+ source and convert the value on the arduino as well. This would be simplest.

Sending the temp as data might be possible. But as you mentioned, code space is one serious issue. I've discussed this previously in the thread, please backtrack for more on this. Short answer is, some other functionality would need to go, but it might be doable. It would be interesting to try (just to see if it is doable), but it does not look like i'll have the time myself anytime soonish.
 
Alpha, does the current code have a minimum on time for cooling?

I've got one set up on a keezer (which can admittedly drop the temp pretty quick with the probe in the air) and I just walked in to find it cooling (cool led on) while it was almost a degree below the set point.

Minimum on time was all I could think of to explain it legitimately.

Thanks
 
Nope, no min on time. It takes a sec for the LED to turn off after relay turns off, to keep code simple.
So what happend? Did it turn off?
 
No, it had plenty of time to turn off (I watched it for 20 second or so).

The set point was 36F with a 2F hysteresis and it was 35.3 with the cooling relay still closed and the led on. I had actually just been running it as a test for future use (new STC) and was coming in to shut it all down.

I've turned it back on and will keep an eye on it. I had noticed it go a couple of degrees below the set point before, but I just chalked it up to the thermal momentum of the freezer (5cf) and the fact the probe is just hanging in the air right now.
 
alphaomega said:
That is interesting. Do you have any link?
All I've found is that you need the dev tools (ht-ide 3000) which seems to be around 300 bucks on ebay. It is not easy finding good info on these though. From what I van tell they seem popular enough, due to good quality and low price, but the datasheet i the only hard info I've found this far.
Click to expand...

This page is what I was looking at, and if you scroll down to software and click on (New release V7.84) under HT-IDE3000 it links to the executable. I've not looked any further than this so far. I'm stretched way too thin right now to dedicate any time on it. The manual on that same item shows an interface board, with a parallel cable connection to a PC (parallel, really??).

The EIC-300 manual I found on another site, here. This seems to be similar to the above, but USB based. I just searched their site and found this is discontinued:
10/20/2011

Holtek has launched a new generation integrated programmer, known as the e-WriterPro. As a result, all previous programmer products, including the e-Writer plus, etc. will be terminated as from 30th June 2012.

Holtek's new e-Link has now integrated the former EIC-300 Flash MCU simple programming capabilities. The EIC-300 hardware will therefore be terminated as from 30th June 2012. The supporting software for the EIC-300 will also not be supported after 31st December 2012.
Click to expand...

However, this e-WriterPro is not the same as what I noted above, HT-IDE3000. It appears just under that on the tool page, linked above. Maybe a lighter version?

I looked at ebay, and they are the developers kits, board, software, etc. A little more pricey than the arduino.
 
I have an arduino duemilanove with an ATMEGA168 chip (only 14KB flash available), any advice on what to trim out of the program to lower the size? I tried flashing last night commenting out the celsius data and a bunch of the upper portion of the fahrenheit data (since I won't ever set it above ~90F) to get the size down. It compiled and flashed but I think I ended up frying my STC-1000, it won't turn on now and the program doesn't recognize it when I connect. I ordered a new one though and I'd still like to use this firmware.

Also is it normal for the buzzer on the STC-1000 to go off continuously right when it connects to the arduino (before doing anything)?
 
Agreed, you need to connect the sensor to stop the buzzing.
At the bottom of the sketch, comment out or remove the hex_celsius and hex_eeprom_celsius data. If it still won't fit, you'll probably need a newer arduino.
You cannot mess with the fahrenheit data if that is what you want to upload.
Your stc is still ok, it just has bad data uploaded. You just need to upload good data and you're golden.
 
Thanks, glad to hear I didn't kill my STC. I cancelled the order for a new one and ordered an arduino uno instead.
 
They're a little expensive but you can get an arduino at any radioshack if you ever need one in a pinch.
 
Very cool!
Thanks a lot for the support, Will_D! And thanks for posting back! Is that you in the picture?
I'm glad you had a good time and was able to help a few brewing buddies out!
 
Yes unfortunately!

My back was killing me hence the slouch.

BTW: One of the coolest bits of kit on show (forget the 3d printers and the laser cutters) was a home made DNA sequencer from a bunch of bio hackers in Cork! It was computer controlled and could assemble the amino acid bases to order!
 
wilconrad said:
I have some good news and some bad news to report:

The Good News: I think I've secured a source for the correct controller version

The Bad News: You have to buy a minimum of 100pcs in order to buy from them

More Bad News (for me anyway): In the process of finding a source, I got stuck with 100pcs of the wrong version

If this turns out to be a reliable source, I'll order an extra 50pcs of the good controllers when I build my next batch of "The Black Box" and will sell them at cost to the DIY crowd. In the meantime, you'll see me selling STC-1000's on Ebay; do NOT buy these, as they are the v1.1's I'm getting rid of.
Click to expand...

Looks like I jumped the gun with this post... I just received my 2nd batch of controllers and I am now the proud owner of 200 units of the wrong version! (STC-1000_Power_V1.1)

If/when I do finally secure a reliable source for v1.0's, I'll let you guys know, but looks like this particular source was a dead end. In the meantime, if anyone has developed a particular affinity for v1.1's, I'm your guy! :cross:
 
atoughram said:
That REALLY sucks...

I wonder how hard it would be to install a Arduino Pro-Mini inside of one.. I've got a 1.1 laying around, I'll have to crack it open and take a look.
Click to expand...

I don't think physically installing the arduino would be much of a hassle (unless you wanted it tidy). The code would be the tricky bit, and while Alpha has got it seemingly down for the PIC I would expect some changes required to have a working code in the arudino (Don't know if the .hex files supplied by Alpha are written in assembly or something higher, but most likely not directly transferable into the language that arduino uses)
But (and without taking a V1.1 apart or really knowing what I am talking about) what the STC1000 does give you is a nice package with a 2+1 8 segment display, some LEDs, 4x buttons, 120/240VAC - 12VDC power supply, 2x 10A power relays (maybe 15A), 1x Sensor input with voltage divider (potentially two with a couple more parts).
My biggest question would be how is the display controlled?
 
Also Alpha how is the PID version going? I have tried searching the thread but since PID is only three letters it doesn't return anything!
It would be an awesome combination of your 2 projects on here to have the DIY cheap RIMS tube run BY a STC1000PID!
 
mattd2 said:
My biggest question would be how is the display controlled?
Click to expand...

It's multiplexed if I remember correctly.

Code: 
 * Schematic of the connections to the MCU.
*
* PIC16F1828
* ------------
* VDD | 1 20 | VSS
* Relay Heat RA5 | 2 19 | RA0/ICSPDAT (Programming header), Piezo buzzer
* Relay Cool RA4 | 3 18 | RA1/ICSPCLK (Programming header)
* (Programming header) nMCLR/VPP/RA3 | 4 17 | RA2/AN2 Thermistor
* LED 5 RC5 | 5 16 | RC0 LED 0
* LED 4, BTN 4 RC4 | 6 15 | RC1 LED 1
* LED 3, BTN 3 RC3 | 7 14 | RC2 LED 2
* LED 6, BTN 2 RC6 | 8 13 | RB4 LED Common Anode 10's digit
* LED 7, BTN 1 RC7 | 9 12 | RB5 LED Common Anode 1's digit
* LED Common Anode extras RB7 | 10 11 | RB6 LED Common Anode 0.1's digit
* ------------
*
*
* Schematic of the bit numbers for the display LED's. Useful if custom characters are needed.
*
* * 7 -------- * -------- * C
* / 7 / 1 / 7 / 5 2
* 2 / / 6 2 / / 6 ----
* ------- ------- 2 / 7 / 6
* * / 1 / / 1 / ---
* 3 5 / / 3 5 / / 3 5 / 1 / 3
* -------- * -------- * ---- *
* 4 0 4 0 4 0
*
 
atoughram said:
It's multiplexed if I remember correctly.

Code: 
 * Schematic of the connections to the MCU.
*
* PIC16F1828
* ------------
* VDD | 1 20 | VSS
* Relay Heat RA5 | 2 19 | RA0/ICSPDAT (Programming header), Piezo buzzer
* Relay Cool RA4 | 3 18 | RA1/ICSPCLK (Programming header)
* (Programming header) nMCLR/VPP/RA3 | 4 17 | RA2/AN2 Thermistor
* LED 5 RC5 | 5 16 | RC0 LED 0
* LED 4, BTN 4 RC4 | 6 15 | RC1 LED 1
* LED 3, BTN 3 RC3 | 7 14 | RC2 LED 2
* LED 6, BTN 2 RC6 | 8 13 | RB4 LED Common Anode 10's digit
* LED 7, BTN 1 RC7 | 9 12 | RB5 LED Common Anode 1's digit
* LED Common Anode extras RB7 | 10 11 | RB6 LED Common Anode 0.1's digit
* ------------
*
*
* Schematic of the bit numbers for the display LED's. Useful if custom characters are needed.
*
* * 7 -------- * -------- * C
* / 7 / 1 / 7 / 5 2
* 2 / / 6 2 / / 6 ----
* ------- ------- 2 / 7 / 6
* * / 1 / / 1 / ---
* 3 5 / / 3 5 / / 3 5 / 1 / 3
* -------- * -------- * ---- *
* 4 0 4 0 4 0
*
Click to expand...

Well that makes things a bit clearer :D So as before "all" you need to do is some coding... oh and some insanely good soldering skills :D
 
IslandLizard said:
Ah, **** :tank:

I hoped, and for a moment thought you'd discovered the whole grail of STC supply there.

Perhaps return them as having the wrong specs? <ugh>
Click to expand...

Well... I'm forever the optimist! I ordered 250 units from a new potential supplier in China :drunk: 3rd time's the charm, right!??

I did at least get them to send me a picture of the board and confirm that it had the correct hardware this time, but we'll see! I'll make at least 50 of these available to the DIY crew, should they prove to be the right version (fingers crossed, don't think I can afford to roll the dice another time!)
 
wilconrad said:
Well... I'm forever the optimist! I ordered 250 units from a new potential supplier in China :drunk: 3rd time's the charm, right!??

I did at least get them to send me a picture of the board and confirm that it had the correct hardware this time, but we'll see! I'll make at least 50 of these available to the DIY crew, should they prove to be the right version (fingers crossed, don't think I can afford to roll the dice another time!)
Click to expand...

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you. Although it makes typing, and brewing, harder, it's for a noble cause. You're the man! :rockin:
 
wilconrad said:
Well... I'm forever the optimist! I ordered 250 units from a new potential supplier in China :drunk: 3rd time's the charm, right!??

I did at least get them to send me a picture of the board and confirm that it had the correct hardware this time, but we'll see! I'll make at least 50 of these available to the DIY crew, should they prove to be the right version (fingers crossed, don't think I can afford to roll the dice another time!)
Click to expand...

I am certainly interested if you are able to get the right ones. Fingers Crossed!
 
Hi guys!

If anyone is interested I just pushed to a new project on github. It's the STC-1000+ mash control firmware.
Tonight I've been trying to patch up the missing bits and get something presentable. It is still very much alpha code stage, but with your help it might amount to something usable.
No manual yet, but if you've used STC-1000+ before, you should be ok.

So what is it? Well, it is pretty much STC-1000+, but with 1 minute steps (instead of 1 hour steps), ramping is dropped (it is not of much use here either...) and it uses PI control (instead of thermostat). PI as in proportional and integral (the D part, derivative, is left out as it is more trouble than good for this application).
The PI control is implemented in 16-bit integer arithmetic, which was no small task, but I think I got it working reasonably well.

What's new? Under the set menu, you will find some new options:
Pd: period (1,2,4,8,16,32 or 64 seconds)
cP: Proportional gain
cI: Integral gain
OP: Set output
OL: Min PI output
Oh: Max PI output

I'd suggest using period time 1 or 2, if you want to try it out still using the internal relay (instead of driving an SSR), you might want to try maybe 16 or 32 to spare the relay.
Start with low cP and cI (maybe 16 and 1).
OL and Oh should limit the minimum/maximum duty the PI will produce.
Then there are new run modes, profiles as usual, but also ct (constant temperature) and cO (constant output). In cO mode the value in OP, will be output, in ct mode the PI will aim for the setpoint.

Only heating is implemented, the cooling relay is not used (at least for now).

Also, I've been fiddling with a webpage, to attempt to simulate how the PI algorithm could behave (it is located under the simulate folder). It is only in SI units, but you can try it out if you want.

I guess I've forgotten a bunch of stuff that you'd want to know, if you want to try it out, but ask and I'll try to answer.

The files are located here: STC-1000+ Mash control (work)

Please, do help me to try and find bugs, I guess there will be a few (remember still alpha stage).

Cheers!
//mats
 
alphaomega said:
STC-1000+ mash control firmware.
Click to expand...

Mats - this has honestly made my night. I noticed you mentioning this project in passing a few times, but I've just put in the order for camlocks and a pump to build up a RIMS system - the last bit was a control system.

Thank you again for putting together this amazing improvement - if you're ever in Montreal, please come out for a pint on me.
 

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