Starting 1st brew tomorrow - Questions

[bru-ster76]

Hi,

I'm taking the plunge tomorrow and am starting my first brew.

I have a few questions that I've come up with that I can't easily find answers for, so I figured I'd ask and see if I can get any answered before I make a critical mistake.

1. My recipe calls for 6.25G of water. Can I safely use a measuring bucket/measuring vessel without knowing exactly how accurate it is to the gallon when collecting my water?

2. Depending on the answer of #1., I'm thinking that I'll put marks on my brew spoon to help determine volume for future brews, and am wondering when the appropriate time is to measure the post boil volume. Before or after chilling? I am thinking that if I took it immediately after I turned the heat off, I wouldn't have to sanitize the measuring spoon, would I?

3. I'm using a 10G fermenting bucket with loose fitting lid and a plate chiller. Can I use the fermentation bucket to directly catch my cooled wort as it leaves the chiller? What should I do if it comes out of the chiller too warm still? Pour it back into the kettle and go again, or is my kettle going to run the risk of contaminating the wort?

4. When I sanitize my equipment, should I fill the fermenter with starsan solution and sanitize everything in there or a separate large container.

5. Is aluminum foil considered sterile, or should I spray it with starsan before using it as a cover on anything?

Thanks!!

 

[Pratzie]

Hi,

I'm taking the plunge tomorrow and am starting my first brew.

I have a few questions that I've come up with that I can't easily find answers for, so I figured I'd ask and see if I can get any answered before I make a critical mistake.

1. My recipe calls for 6.25G of water. Can I safely use a measuring bucket/measuring vessel without knowing exactly how accurate it is to the gallon when collecting my water?

2. Depending on the answer of #1., I'm thinking that I'll put marks on my brew spoon to help determine volume for future brews, and am wondering when the appropriate time is to measure the post boil volume. Before or after chilling? I am thinking that if I took it immediately after I turned the heat off, I wouldn't have to sanitize the measuring spoon, would I?

3. I'm using a 10G fermenting bucket with loose fitting lid and a plate chiller. Can I use the fermentation bucket to directly catch my cooled wort as it leaves the chiller? What should I do if it comes out of the chiller too warm still? Pour it back into the kettle and go again, or is my kettle going to run the risk of contaminating the wort?

4. When I sanitize my equipment, should I fill the fermenter with starsan solution and sanitize everything in there or a separate large container.

5. Is aluminum foil considered sterile, or should I spray it with starsan before using it as a cover on anything?

Thanks!!

1. How big is ur boil kettle. I recommend a sight glass or dowel rod with 1 gallon increment markings on it. If u wanna go sight glass, I recommend Bobby's at Brewhardware.com. Works great and he sends u the labels for the increments. Also invest in a quart sized pitcher/beaker to make measuring easier.

2. See one for most. And ur correct that if u measure while boiling u should be ok but i'd turn the burner off when the level gets to where u want it. Might not hurt to do a boil-off trial run after this batch or even before to calculate the boil off rate. That will also help with question 3 as far as how low the plate chiller can take a boiling liquid as it hits ur fermenting vessel. Also a cheap refractometer from ebay or amazon will help u see what ur gravity is pre and post boil which is also helpful when ur unsure of total volumes and how much u need to boil off.

3. U can drain right into it but if its still pretty warm, say in excess of 90 degrees, most people use a pump and recirculate it back into the wort to cool it down a bit more before draining right back into the vessel. This should work if u dump the entire thing back in ur BK and get it down to pitching temps by the second pass. The sanitation factor depends on how meticulous u are with sanitizing EVERYTHING the wort will come in contact with. As a noob, be very meticulous until u get used to doing it correctly.

4. I usually measure out the 5 gallons in my bucket, add the star san and then pour it all into the carboy to sanitize that and then into ANOTHER bucket and leave that in there. I'll put my spoons/paddles/any and all other equipment that I need to reuse in this bucket so it gets resanitized in between uses. Buckets are cheaper and it doesn't hurt to have another one or two lying around.

5. I use a spray bottle of star san on foil a lot in various parts of my brewing cycle. it never hurts to have an extra spray bottle of it lying around just in case something arises that isn't easy to submerge in ur bucket of star san.

Hope this helps and goodluck tomorrow!

 

[Warthaug]

I hope I'm not too late - answers within...regardless, good luck and keep us posted!

1. My recipe calls for 6.25G of water. Can I safely use a measuring bucket/measuring vessel without knowing exactly how accurate it is to the gallon when collecting my water?

If you're all-graining, you need to be more careful, as hitting the right mash temp is highly dependent on water volume/temperature. If you're doing an extract batch, you'll be fine - you may end up with a little more or less volume than expected, but more volume = more beer; less volume = add clean water to get upto the desired volume (or leave it, and have stronger beer).

2. Depending on the answer of #1., I'm thinking that I'll put marks on my brew spoon to help determine volume for future brews, and am wondering when the appropriate time is to measure the post boil volume. Before or after chilling? I am thinking that if I took it immediately after I turned the heat off, I wouldn't have to sanitize the measuring spoon, would I?

Marking the brew spoon works well - other use a dedicated plastic or metal tube. You can measure your post-boil volume at either time, but if doing it post-cooling, make sure you've sanitized your measuring stick properly.

3. I'm using a 10G fermenting bucket with loose fitting lid and a plate chiller. Can I use the fermentation bucket to directly catch my cooled wort as it leaves the chiller? What should I do if it comes out of the chiller too warm still? Pour it back into the kettle and go again, or is my kettle going to run the risk of contaminating the wort?

If it comes out slightly too warm, leave the bucket (without the yeast added until it cools. Even left overnight, it should be fine - so long as you keep it covered & sanitize it properly before transfering the beer.

It the wort is still super-warm, siphon it back into the pot and re-cool. Pouring hot wort can oxidize it. That said, you should be able to monitor the output of your plate chiller, and adjust your flow rate to get sufficiently cooled beer.

4. When I sanitize my equipment, should I fill the fermenter with starsan solution and sanitize everything in there or a separate large container.

I would recommend a second bucket, so that you can keep siphons/etc immersed when the fermenter is being filled. An alternative is to fill a spray bottle with starsan and spray everything (which is what I do).

5. Is aluminum foil considered sterile, or should I spray it with starsan before using it as a cover on anything?

Spray it - its highly unlikely to be sterile.

Hope that helps, and enjoy your brew day.

Bryan

 

[Captain Damage]

Your most important question was last, so I'll answer it first:

5. Is aluminum foil considered sterile, or should I spray it with starsan before using it as a cover on anything?

Any time there is any question whatsoever of whether or not something is sanitary, SANITIZE IT! You can not over-sanitize your equipment. Unless something is specifically labeled as sterile (and nothing we use in brewing is labeled as such), it is not.

1. My recipe calls for 6.25G of water. Can I safely use a measuring bucket/measuring vessel without knowing exactly how accurate it is to the gallon when collecting my water?

2. Depending on the answer of #1., I'm thinking that I'll put marks on my brew spoon to help determine volume for future brews, and am wondering when the appropriate time is to measure the post boil volume. Before or after chilling? I am thinking that if I took it immediately after I turned the heat off, I wouldn't have to sanitize the measuring spoon, would I?

Calibrate your bucket, fermenter and spoon with a measuring cup and a magic marker. Mark every half gallon or quart. While there is a difference in volume of IIRC ~4% between 212F and 60F water, it's very small and most don't worry about it. It's only 2/10s of a gallon in a 5 gallon batch. With your fermenter calibrated, you can easily see how much wort/beer is in there.

4. When I sanitize my equipment, should I fill the fermenter with starsan solution and sanitize everything in there or a separate large container.

I keep a bucket filled with Star San for whatever equipment will fit in there and a spray bottle. For the fermenter I generally only put a gallon of Star San and shake it to make sure I'm getting all surfaces wet.

(I skipped Q3 because I have no plate chiller experience)

Good luck and have fun!

 

[bru-ster76]

Thanks for the answers guys!

2 more quick questions...

How much starsan solution is typical to mix up for a 5G batch?

Any pump recommendations that are on the affordable side?

 

[woozy]

1. My recipe calls for 6.25G of water. Can I safely use a measuring bucket/measuring vessel without knowing exactly how accurate it is to the gallon when collecting my water?

If extract yes.

2. Depending on the answer of #1., I'm thinking that I'll put marks on my brew spoon to help determine volume for future brews, and am wondering when the appropriate time is to measure the post boil volume. Before or after chilling? I am thinking that if I took it immediately after I turned the heat off, I wouldn't have to sanitize the measuring spoon, would I?

The hot wort above 180 doesn't need to worry about sanitation, no.

A good idea is to mark your fermenter to the appropriate level. Then you don't need to measure anything; you just top off.

4. When I sanitize my equipment, should I fill the fermenter with starsan solution and sanitize everything in there or a separate large container.

oooh... well, it's not really accessible all in the fermenter and all, is it? And if you keep dunking in your dirty spoon into it it'll get dirty and you won't be able to re-use the sanitizer. And when it comes time to pour the wort in it's all filled with equipment and sanitizer.

It's kind of a judgement call and it takes experience to come up with a system that works best for you. Try to have a clean sterilized surface like a large plate to put things on and a spritzer spray bottle full of sanitizer. If you can find a shallow wide container like a planer box or a paint tray, that'd be fantastic. The more containers and surfaces you have the better. You can probably get by with just storing things in the fermenter but a second vessel will just make things go smoother.

5. Is aluminum foil considered sterile, or should I spray it with starsan before using it as a cover on anything?

*NOTHING* is considered sterile. And those that are will not *stay* sterile (and that's the *real* issue).

 

[frostyp]

1.6ml to 1 litre of water , I won't answer in gallons US and UK gallon amounts differ

 

[Pratzie]

Look on the back of the Star San bottle, but I think its one oz to five gallons of water.

As far as pumps, theres an ebay on people are talking about on here that is cheap and works well but most people go with Chugger or March pumps. They vary in price based on the models but they go on sale every so often.

 

[bru-ster76]

Ya, I was more thinking about whether I needed 5 g of starsan, or if I should make it in a smaller batch of the same ratio. I've since read that I can keep it for several uses, so I will make up the 5 g batch, dump what I need into another bucket at brew time.

Thanks for the info on pumps too!

 

[Pratzie]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-DC-12V-...ltDomain_0&hash=item53f895141c#ht_4370wt_1161

This is the ebay pump I mentioned above. I ordered one yesterday after reading alot of reviews. For 22 bucks shipped, it will def serve its purpose until i get some cash saved up for the March pump that im interested in.

Also, alot of people will make the batch of star san and then keep it in a bucket for upwards of a few months. You could do that but i'd recommend storing it in a bucket, not a better bottle.

 

[bru-ster76]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-DC-12V-High-Quality-Electric-Centrifugal-Water-Pump-P-38I-03-/360652805148?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53f895141c#ht_4370wt_1161

This is the ebay pump I mentioned above. I ordered one yesterday after reading alot of reviews. For 22 bucks shipped, it will def serve its purpose until i get some cash saved up for the March pump that im interested in.

Also, alot of people will make the batch of star san and then keep it in a bucket for upwards of a few months. You could do that but i'd recommend storing it in a bucket, not a better bottle.

The link says its a DC 12V pump. That would be for a camping trailer etc. How are you planning on using this? Or was it the wrong link?

Thanks.

 

[bru-ster76]

Well I didn't get to brewing today. I had to gather some more supplies and build my fermentation chamber, which took longer than planned. I didn't even get to do a dry run with boiling water And chilling it to get my flow rate dialed in, or calibrate my equipment. Hopefully the wife allows me some time tomorrow and I can finish up the pre-brew things I want to do. Brewing will have to wait until a week night once kids are in bed. C'est la vie.

Can I confirm this. If I start with 6.25G and the recipe says I should end up with 5.25 after 60 min boil and its not there, am I supposed to boil longer if its still too much and add water if its under to make the 5.25 mark, or just leT it be what it is. If I add water, is there a specific routine for doing this?

Thanks again folks, you help has been greatly appreciated.

Ryan

 

[Captain Damage]

The recipe is making a wild guess about your boil off rate. This will vary depending on your kettle and your heat source. What you need to do is do a test boil to find out exactly how much you lose in a 60 minute boil.

The problem with extending the boil to raise your OG is that you're continuing to isomerize your alpha acids resulting in higher IBUs as well as boiling off the volatile aromatics. In other words you're changing the hop profile of your beer. Beer Smith uses your boil off rate to tell you what your expected pre-boil gravity should be. This is really the best way to nail your target OG.

If your post-boil OG is too high, you can add (sanitary) water. This is essentially what extract/partial boil brewers do. But be aware that it is much harder than you'd think to get a homogeneous mixture, and thereby an accurate gravity reading. Best bet is to calculate (or have software calculate) how much water you need to add, mix as thoroughly as you can and take your reading to see how close you are.

But frankly, if you're only off by a point or two in either case, Id' say leave it. You'll still have beer!

 

[Tutsbrew]

I just read some of this thread noticed an idea that had been written before in other threads, of which counters what I've read in the "how to" books by Papazian, Nachel and others.

In some threads I've read, including above, it's recommended not to splash, cause foam, etc, to NOT oxidize the wort, to be careful to not oxidize it even during re-boiling...

In all of the "how-to's" the idea is that oxidizing the wort is GOOD for yeast activity and to take a few minutes to actively do so, before pitching the yeast of course.

May I respectfully ask why some would recommend to us to take care not to oxidize the wort before pitching at all, say as in reboiling wort as noted in this thread? What am I missing?

(my next item up for research is how to selectively use quotes in these replies)

 

[bru-ster76]

The recipe is making a wild guess about your boil off rate. This will vary depending on your kettle and your heat source. What you need to do is do a test boil to find out exactly how much you lose in a 60 minute boil.

The problem with extending the boil to raise your OG is that you're continuing to isomerize your alpha acids resulting in higher IBUs as well as boiling off the volatile aromatics. In other words you're changing the hop profile of your beer. Beer Smith uses your boil off rate to tell you what your expected pre-boil gravity should be. This is really the best way to nail your target OG.

If your post-boil OG is too high, you can add (sanitary) water. This is essentially what extract/partial boil brewers do. But be aware that it is much harder than you'd think to get a homogeneous mixture, and thereby an accurate gravity reading. Best bet is to calculate (or have software calculate) how much water you need to add, mix as thoroughly as you can and take your reading to see how close you are.

But frankly, if you're only off by a point or two in either case, Id' say leave it. You'll still have beer!

Good info here, thanks. My wife will kill me if I buy something else before I make my first batch, so I'll have to dry run it and see where it gets me. BeerSmith will be a future purchase I'm sure though.

You say sanitary water... I'm assuming that's boiled water, but does it need to be chilled, or can I add boiled water to my wort before chilling and chill the entire volume after the addition? Can I also assume I could pour it in and just stir as I normally would.... no special techniques?

So I'll do a dry run, but should I turn my burner on full to get the boil started and back it off just to keep a nice rolling boil? I am using 9G kettle and 65000BTU burner.

 

[vnzjunk]

In my past readings there seemed to be differences depending on when in the brew cycle you were talking about possibly having extra oxidation entering in the process. Seems that it was undesirable at the mid boil hot wort stage and desirable at the cooler yeast pitch stage.

Also I seem to remember reading where there was a caveat about applying certain brewing procedures and methods handed down from large batch brewers (commercial brewery's) where the splashing, fall distance and volume of liquid are much greater than those of small batch home brewers. The point brought forth was that not everything specific and important to large batch volume pro brewers mite be all that important or applicable to small batch home brewers.

Sorry I couldn't be more specific and list sources and links but it might give you something to go on when looking for more specific answers to your questions.

I just read some of this thread noticed an idea that had been written before in other threads, of which counters what I've read in the "how to" books by Papazian, Nachel and others.

In some threads I've read, including above, it's recommended not to splash, cause foam, etc, to NOT oxidize the wort, to be careful to not oxidize it even during re-boiling...

In all of the "how-to's" the idea is that oxidizing the wort is GOOD for yeast activity and to take a few minutes to actively do so, before pitching the yeast of course.

May I respectfully ask why some would recommend to us to take care not to oxidize the wort before pitching at all, say as in reboiling wort as noted in this thread? What am I missing?

(my next item up for research is how to selectively use quotes in these replies)

 

[JMiles74]

After cooling down my wort to yeast pitching temps I transfer it to the carboys and have a strainer sit a top the funnel. I've been told that gives the wort enough aeration for the yeast. I've been doing this for years and haven't had any off flavors of oxidation to speak of. Good luck brewing, enjoy the process. What are u brewing?

 

[Captain Damage]

BeerSmith will be a future purchase I'm sure though.

I say Beer Smith because that is what I use know and I like it, so I'll plug it. They have a trial version you can check out before buying and it's only like $30 to buy. That said, there are many brewing programs and calculators out there, many of them free. You might try asking in the Software section here on HBT.

You say sanitary water... I'm assuming that's boiled water, but does it need to be chilled, or can I add boiled water to my wort before chilling and chill the entire volume after the addition? Can I also assume I could pour it in and just stir as I normally would.... no special techniques?

If you're using plain tap water, I would boil it. If it's chilled before you add it, then it will absorb some of the heat of the wort as you chill it. I use a Pur faucet filter and I just dunk the housing and filter briefly in Star San since the filter blocks any microbes that might come from my municipal water source.

When I was doing partial boils I'd add the water to the wort in the carboy and shake the bejezus out of it for a couple of minutes. This both mixed in the water and aerated the wort. Just dumping the top off water in and giving it a little swirl or a stir with a spoon is insufficient.

 

[BrewinBromanite]

May I respectfully ask why some would recommend to us to take care not to oxidize the wort before pitching at all, say as in reboiling wort as noted in this thread? What am I missing?

Oxidizing the wort is generally only a concern when it is still very hot. That's when oxidation could potentially occur. "Hot-side aeration" is not a concern once he wort has been cooled. However, I'd bet that most home-brewers on this forum would say its not a terribly huge thing to worry about on our small-scale operations. Just be as careful as possible not to overly aerate hot wort - and you'll be fine.

THEN --- once your wort is cooled to pitching temps - it is not only OK - but highly recommended to aerate the wort. Most either shake the hell out of the COOLED wort in their carboy or bottling bucket for a couple mins (which is what I do), or add pure oxygen, right before pitching your yeast. I'll reiterate - it's extremely important to have sufficient oxygen for the yeasties to get their groove on.

Hope this helps clarify things a bit! Cheers!

 

[Tutsbrew]

Oxidizing the wort is generally only a concern when it is still very hot. That's when oxidation could potentially occur. "Hot-side aeration" is not a concern once he wort has been cooled. However, I'd bet that most home-brewers on this forum would say its not a terribly huge thing to worry about on our small-scale operations. Just be as careful as possible not to overly aerate hot wort - and you'll be fine.

THEN --- once your wort is cooled to pitching temps - it is not only OK - but highly recommended to aerate the wort. Most either shake the hell out of the COOLED wort in their carboy or bottling bucket for a couple mins (which is what I do), or add pure oxygen, right before pitching your yeast. I'll reiterate - it's extremely important to have sufficient oxygen for the yeasties to get their groove on.

Hope this helps clarify things a bit! Cheers!

Thank you!

...Now I'll look into -why- aeration on the "hot" side might be bad gew-gew's. Always something to ponder!

 

[BrewinBromanite]

I recall reading plenty of posts explaining the science behind why oxidation of hot wort is bad, when I first started brewing. I'm no scientist, so I won't even attempt to explain it - as you can probably find numerous posts on the subject on this forum. I just know not to do it. From what I remember, and this might not be completely accurate - the general takeaway was that it could lead to some undesirable off-flavors, possibly a stale or cardboard like taste in the finished product. That's always been good enough of an explanation for me. Again, some quick searches would probably yield plenty of good answers if you're looking for the hard-science answer. Learning about brewing is always fun! Good luck!

 

[Captain Damage]

HSA really isn't be a concern for homebrewers. There's some question on whether it's even a real chemistry phenomenon at all. Commercial brewers are known to deliberately bubble oxygen through hot wort. Dr Bamforth mentioned this in a Brew Strong episode maybe 2-3 years back.

Handle your beer with reasonable care, and it'll be fine.

 

[BrewinBromanite]

+1 ^

It seems you'd have to try pretty damn hard to notice any severe negative effects of hot side aeration/oxidation (...picturing some crazy mofo trying to lift and shake a hot kettle just after flameout... ).

 

[ballsy]

The recipe is making a wild guess about your boil off rate. This will vary depending on your kettle and your heat source. What you need to do is do a test boil to find out exactly how much you lose in a 60 minute boil.

The problem with extending the boil to raise your OG is that you're continuing to isomerize your alpha acids resulting in higher IBUs as well as boiling off the volatile aromatics. In other words you're changing the hop profile of your beer. Beer Smith uses your boil off rate to tell you what your expected pre-boil gravity should be. This is really the best way to nail your target OG.

If your post-boil OG is too high, you can add (sanitary) water. This is essentially what extract/partial boil brewers do. But be aware that it is much harder than you'd think to get a homogeneous mixture, and thereby an accurate gravity reading. Best bet is to calculate (or have software calculate) how much water you need to add, mix as thoroughly as you can and take your reading to see how close you are.

But frankly, if you're only off by a point or two in either case, Id' say leave it. You'll still have beer!

I was told by AHBS that adding too much water post boil would RAISE the OG and it made no sense to me...I would think it would lower the OG (as you are saying). I had an IPA that came out OG of 1.060 (supposed to be 1.042) and I had added too much water at top off.... common sense tells me the more watered down the wort, the lower the OG which is what you are saying up above....is AHBS wrong in what they are telling me?

 

[Warthaug]

I just read some of this thread noticed an idea that had been written before in other threads, of which counters what I've read in the "how to" books by Papazian, Nachel and others.

In some threads I've read, including above, it's recommended not to splash, cause foam, etc, to NOT oxidize the wort, to be careful to not oxidize it even during re-boiling...

In all of the "how-to's" the idea is that oxidizing the wort is GOOD for yeast activity and to take a few minutes to actively do so, before pitching the yeast of course.

May I respectfully ask why some would recommend to us to take care not to oxidize the wort before pitching at all, say as in reboiling wort as noted in this thread? What am I missing?

(my next item up for research is how to selectively use quotes in these replies)

Other have answered portions of this questions.

1) Aeration of the wort, when it is hot, may lead to oxidation of some wort components, leading too off flavours. As others have mentioned, this is controversial, and may even be wrong. Personally, I avoid splashing the wort overly much when its hot, but I don't make any special effort to avoid oxidation of the hot wort.

2) Aeration immediately before pitching the yeast into cooled wort is very important for yeast health - the O2 is required for the yeast to produce some of the lipids and sterols they need to thrive once the O2 is gone, and some flavour precursors are generated in the presence of oxygen. Insufficient oxygenation of unfermented wort can lead to poor ferments and a lack of certain yeast-derived flavours.

3) Aeration once fermentation has started is bad. You can get both carboard-like and sherry-like flavours as a result. As such, you should avoid splashing or stirring wort that is actively fermenting or has completed fermentation.

Bryan