Starter question.

[JCrazy84]

Hey, I am a total noob with application, but I have read 2 books on homebrewing and finally bit the bullet and invested in equipment.

My first beer is going to be a very ambitious Tripel, with an SG in the vicinity of 1.085. Now, I know I need to make a starter. I have seen all the calculators and the like linked on the forum, but I have just a very practical question.

I only have 8oz of DME right now left (the rest is reserved for the brew) and I have a Wyeast Trappist High Gravity (3787) pack in my fridge right now. Tuesday evening, I am going to activate it, and Wednesday I was planning on making a wort for the yeast.

Would I be better off splitting the DME into two 4oz "servings" for the yeast, or throwing all of the DME at once. (i.e., making a wort with 4oz on wed, pitching the yeast, making another wort with 4oz on thurs, and adding it to the starter OR just all 8oz at once.)

For what it is worth, I plan on brewing on Saturday afternoon.

Thank you in advance. I am going to bed here soon, so I probably will not reply until morning when I wake up, but I appreciate anyone who helps!

 

[FarmBoy530]

It seems that you already have your ingredients so I'll save the "start with a more simple beer" speech and just say your in for a steep learning curve. Starters are tricky and have to be done right. I'll let someone else answer that. But if you tell us about your recipe I'm sure you'll get some other great advice. Oh and welcome!

 

[boist]

You'd be better off using a pitch rate calculator, figuring out exactly how much yeast you need and how much starter to make, and doing that.
Of the two choices, however, I'd go with the "dump it all in at once" method. Reason being that every time you add something to the beer (or yeast, in this case) you risk infection, so messing with it less would be better. I assume you don't have a stir plate, so you're gonna have to shake that thing regularly, and make sure it's in a big enough container for the whole starter volume plus about another half volume for head.

Also, make sure you are using enough water to make about 1.040-1.050 wort out of 8oz of DME. And make sure that both water and yeast are at the same temperature before you start (water needs to be cooled from boil, yeast needs to warm from fridge)

But yeah, it's a steep learning curve.

Welcome to brewing.

 

[beergolf]

If you have a scale it is very easy to make a starter. Use the 10/1 ratio.

A 1 liter starter uses 100g of DME.

1.5L starter use 150g. etc.....

Another thing that works when doing a big Tripel is to add the sugar after fermentation slows. Make the recipe without adding the sugar, pitch the yeast. Let it go for several days until things show signs of slowing down (usually about 4-5 days) Boil up the sugar in just enough water to make a solution, cool, and then add it to the fermenter. This allows the yeast to eat the more complex sugars of the wort first and then kick back in after the sugar addition. For a beer this big using 3787, make sure to use a blow off tube.

 

[JCrazy84]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome! I know the metric 10/1 ratio, so I know how much water I would need to make the starter itself. The real issue would be the amount I would add if I would do it in two steps or one. I will do it all in one, thanks!

Also, for the blow off tube, still needed if I am only putting in 5 gallons in a 6.5 gal carboy?

As for the recipe: http://hopville.com/recipe/1162045/belgian-tripel-recipes/hibiscus-tripel

I thought hibiscus would be good in a tripel, just based on the floral aspect that it brings, with hopefully some fruity esters with phenolics from the Trappist yeast.

While it may seem like I am still a rookie and don't know what I am talking about, I am also a chemist, so a lot of these hygiene practices, procedure steps, and water chemistry, aren't new to me.

I wrote up my procedure, and I have helped friends in the past to brew LME beers with additional grains and hops. They like putting me in charge of the calculations. (I just use hopville now for ballpark figures, with the AA from the packages/my LHBS website.)Now that I have my own stuff, I can control it all. Also, for what it is worth, I also wrote up a recipe for my second beer when I get my primary free, any critiquing is welcome. http://hopville.com/recipe/1167362/dry-stout-recipes/chocolate-cayenne-dry-stout

 

[JCrazy84]

Double Post.

 

[JCrazy84]

I posted a reply...but it had links, so it needs moderator approval. I didn't save the post before I made it, so when it shows up it has answers, more questions and links to my two recipes that I have adapted to my own use. If I remembered everything I said, I would post it again, but instead I will merely wait until it shows up.

 

[AnOldUR]

The best you're going to do with what you have is to make a two liter starter and that will at best double your cell count, but still be short of the 300 billion that is called for. It will work but not be optimal. Consider scaling you recipe back to a 4 gallon batch of 1.080 wort.

 

[helibrewer]

yeast concentration in the starter makes a big difference. For instance, 1 smackpak in a 1L starter is about 100 million cells/L which produces a doubling factor of about .5 giving you about 150 million cells for the starter.

That same smackpak in a 2L starter is about 50 million cells/L which produces a doubling factor of about 1.1 giving you about 210 million cells for the starter.

If I am preparing a 2 pack starter I always do 2 - 2L starters since my yield will be about 420 million cells versus both packs in 2L which would only yield about 300 million cells.

 

[JCrazy84]

So, from what I am gathering, I should reduce my gravity to 1.080 in a 4 gal, (can be done by merely adding 6lb of DME rather than 8.5 in my original recipe in the link above which will send the IBU's to about 35) and make one single batch of wort for my yeast starter that will be 8oz (227g) to 77oz water (2.27 L). I am so ridiculously excited, haha.
I will "pop" the yeast packet tonight and let it plump up until mid/late-afternoon.
Thank you all very much for helping. I appreciate it greatly.

 

[AnOldUR]

. . . which will send the IBU's to about 35

You could scale your hop by 80% also.

 

[JCrazy84]

Yeah I realize that. I might, 35 isn't overkill by any means. I really like hoppy beers, but the majority of my audience does not. That is the only reason I would scale it back.

 

[JCrazy84]

In the alternative, I also may make my 2.25L starter (approx), and go to my LHBS and pitch one more pack with my brew (3787) when I buy a blow off tube on Friday (Brewing on Saturday, so no time for a starter) This would put my yeast count in the vicinity of 300. This would be closer to optimal.