SSR size help

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GoodaleBrewing

GoodaleBrewing

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Hello all. I am in the item gathering phase of an electric brew setup and plan on making a 3 keg setup so i can do 10 gallon batches. I am also planning on putting 1 5500 watt ripple element in both the BK and HLT but only running one at a time on a 30 amp 240V breaker. I see that the 5500 Watt elements should only draw 22.9 amps so will 25 amp SSRs do or do I need 40s?
 
NOOOO....I've been dealing with SSR headaches for a while now.
Get a 40 amp SSR

Also I've had nothing but headaches with Fotek SSR's
There pretty much all fakes and melt hence the $4 price tag.

I just ordered 3 Crydom ssr's on ebay. You need to search and wait for a good deal...Apparently there quality and not faked...Some here have even recommended buying used ones on Ebay because they last

I just picked up 2 new Crydom D2440 for $13 shipped....when you look them up youll see that's a really good deal...I would either wait it out for a good deal or spend the money but don't get Fotek.....
 
I use a decent no name but quality 25a one on a $3 cheap ssr heatsink with no issues... I do cool it with a 12v fan though.. its a no name clone of this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crydom-D242...809130?hash=item41c02957aa:g:aJ8AAOSwcUBYG5Zy

EDIT* this one actually is the one I use now for both my HLT and BK http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dual-Solid-...098426?hash=item461270e1ba:g:Vh4AAOxylh1SIDyn along with a 25 a one for my rims but my old control panel used a 25a one for 4 years without an issue.

If I just needed one Id get this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mager-40A-S...244314?hash=item5b2516545a:g:MWoAAOSwo0JWJzxJ

these are the same ones auberins and ebrew supply have rebranded and sell for more $$
 
so the 25 amp ones run hotter? I have a saltwater tank and a few large 5 inch by 10 inch aluminum heatsinks I got with a tank for free that I figured I would put on them so heatsinks shouldn't be a problem. Did the foteks come with your PIDs on amazon? I will look at those for sure thanks
 
Augie got me going so not going to go against him but he knows all the issues I've had with the Foteks...Do as you will but a simple "fake Fotek" google search will justify my amswer...Plus why would you possibly get a 25 amp when a 40 is the same or close price with extra protection
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
Augie got me going so not going to go against him but he knows all the issues I've had with the Foteks...Do as you will but a simple "fake Fotek" google search will justify my amswer...Plus why would you possibly get a 25 amp when a 40 is the same or close price with extra protection
Click to expand...

The fake foteks are garbage compared to all other ssrs so they shouldnt be used for comparison.(as you can see here by thier wholesale cost of .5 to 1 cent each in bulk.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...60460906970.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.pfSuIa

Most are counterfeit and made with components only designed for 10a loads even though they are sold as 25 or 40a . I think it was determined the crimp on your connector contributed to your fotek ssr failures since the ssr never actually melted or burned at the optical switch like they would from overheating.

Theoretically the 40a ssrs are rumored to be cooler under a 22a load than a 25a one but I havent seen anyone actually test this theory here. if the price doesnt bother you Id go 40a I guess..
I'm not trying to make waves here I just dont think its fair to use foteks for comparison even if they were the reasons for your ssr failure JohnnyRotten...I really think 40a or 25a labeled ones would have given you the same problem byt the way your pics looked.
 
The rating is the max that it can handle. Electronics wear out faster when you run them close to their max ratings. If you're drawing 22.9amps, that's pretty close to the 25amp limit. Get a bigger one. Then get a good heat sink. The cooler you keep things the longer they last.
 
GoodaleBrewing said:
so the 25 amp ones run hotter? I have a saltwater tank and a few large 5 inch by 10 inch aluminum heatsinks I got with a tank for free that I figured I would put on them so heatsinks shouldn't be a problem. Did the foteks come with your PIDs on amazon? I will look at those for sure thanks
Click to expand...

heatsinks from an led lighting project? thats what I used them for on my saltwater reef tank..
 
cegan09 said:
The rating is the max that it can handle. Electronics wear out faster when you run them close to their max ratings. If you're drawing 22.9amps, that's pretty close to the 25amp limit. Get a bigger one. Then get a good heat sink. The cooler you keep things the longer they last.
Click to expand...

I totally agree in many cases,
but im not sure how true it is with an optical switching SSR because different brands seem to run hotter than others, and theres a point of diminishing returns I think .. if you bought everything thats rated for much more the cost ,size increase and ease of use of a device can suffer...(thicher 10g cord is harder to bend and use for example when 12g sjoow is rated for 25a use. or a 50a service is really not going to be practical if you only use 25a of it as many do. even after taking the common advice here to spend more on 50a.

all im saying is if its a decent 25a ssr its meant to handle up to and including 25a without problems.. if cost is the same or its not a factor than yeah id go 40a but its not as big a deal to have and use an appropriately sized 25a one as some like to say it is.
 
augiedoggy said:
. I think it was determined the crimp on your connector contributed to your fotek ssr failures since the ssr never actually melted or burned at the optical switch like they would from overheating.

.
Click to expand...
The crimp was fine It could have been a loose connection on one but the other 5 gave full or no power to element..nothing to do with anything on my end...Don't want to take away from the OP's thread so I'll just leave it there and let the thread continue
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
The crimp was fine It could have been a loose connection on one but the other 5 gave full or no power to element..nothing to do with anything on my end...Don't want to take away from the OP's thread so I'll just leave it there and let the thread continue
Click to expand...

Didnt the guy who diagnosis electrical failures for a living say your last failure was definitely from a bad connection and not the SSR? Its kind of pertinent to the topic of this thread and the basis of your advice so I do think its on topic. The fact that the wire insulation melted and hardened from extreme heat and the connection post burned on the input side but not the actual ssr switch does say it wasnt the ssr. I agree the other 5 could have been faulty because the fotek clones are hit or miss depending on who made the fakes.. it could have also been the bad connection though..

just pointing out that when a connection is bad or loose you often will get full power to the element but the increased resistance at the poor connection generates heat and eventually the expanding and contracting causes the connection to worsen and heat causes burning and failure. a bad connection can also cause the power to not travel through at all...5 bad ones in a row is highly unlikely even for cheap fakes..

in any case can we at least argee it likely wasnt because they were 25a on the sticker and not 40a in your case?
 
augiedoggy said:
I totally agree in many cases,
but im not sure how true it is with an optical switching SSR because different brands seem to run hotter than others, and theres a point of diminishing returns I think .. if you bought everything thats rated for much more the cost ,size increase and ease of use of a device can suffer...(thicher 10g cord is harder to bend and use for example when 12g sjoow is rated for 25a use. or a 50a service is really not going to be practical if you only use 25a of it as many do. even after taking the common advice here to spend more on 50a.

all im saying is if its a decent 25a ssr its meant to handle up to and including 25a without problems.. if cost is the same or its not a factor than yeah id go 40a but its not as big a deal to have and use an appropriately sized 25a one as some like to say it is.
Click to expand...

The difference is that the SSR is what is flipping the flow of electricity on and off. It's an active component. Wire and everything else is a passive. When you run active components closer to their max limits you will wear them out faster. That's why most companies designing electrical systems actually de-rate everything to ensure longer life expediencies. Using a good quality 40amp SSR with something drawing 22.9amps should last longer than using a 25amp SSR from the same company.
 
cegan09 said:
The difference is that the SSR is what is flipping the flow of electricity on and off. It's an active component. Wire and everything else is a passive. When you run active components closer to their max limits you will wear them out faster. That's why most companies designing electrical systems actually de-rate everything to ensure longer life expediencies. Using a good quality 40amp SSR with something drawing 22.9amps should last longer than using a 25amp SSR from the same company.
Click to expand...

Totally agree.

Brew on :mug:
 
Here is the PID I thought about getting is why i ask. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X6SEWS4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


augiedoggy said:
heatsinks from an led lighting project? thats what I used them for on my saltwater reef tank..
Click to expand...

yep built my own light with 56 3w leds for my tank also. I bought an RODI off a guy for 25 bucks and he threw in the two heatsinks and a few other items he didnt want anymore. Here is the test fire of my 120 gallons lights when I built them 4 years ago.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
cegan09 said:
The difference is that the SSR is what is flipping the flow of electricity on and off. It's an active component. Wire and everything else is a passive. When you run active components closer to their max limits you will wear them out faster. That's why most companies designing electrical systems actually de-rate everything to ensure longer life expediencies. Using a good quality 40amp SSR with something drawing 22.9amps should last longer than using a 25amp SSR from the same company.
Click to expand...

I was not aware... Its kind of silly that they rate them if its not wise to follow it... In any case I dont think the ssrs here get the type of abuse they would see running all day in industry use.

Heres the video on the foteks and how they are made. and how the triac they use is rated for 12 amps in the 25a model.. Maybe the 40a model uses the 25 amp triac?
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxEhxjvifyY[/ame]
 
GoodaleBrewing said:
Here is the PID I thought about getting is why i ask. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00X6SEWS4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20




yep built my own light with 56 3w leds for my tank also. I bought an RODI off a guy for 25 bucks and he threw in the two heatsinks and a few other items he didnt want anymore. Here is the test fire of my 120 gallons lights when I built them 4 years ago.
Click to expand...

I have a mix of homemade leds with pwm dimmer control and a few 120w fixtures I bought on ebay... the lower NM blue ones seem to generate more heat and burn up about every 2 years requiring me to replace those leds
 
Last edited by a moderator:
augiedoggy said:
I have a mix of homemade leds with pwm dimmer control and a few 120w fixtures I bought on ebay... the lower NM blue ones seem to generate more heat and burn up about every 2 years requiring me to replace those leds
Click to expand...



I spent a few extra bucks and bought all cree bulbs when I built this and im only pushing 750-850mA through any of the bulbs to make them last longer.




Do you think that PID is a good one to get even if I need to buy new SSRs too?
 
GoodaleBrewing said:
I spent a few extra bucks and bought all cree bulbs when I built this and im only pushing 750-850mA through any of the bulbs to make them last longer.




Do you think that PID is a good one to get even if I need to buy new SSRs too?
Click to expand...

I used 4 mypin td4 pids for 4 years I think they are a great pid and value.. the td4 series has manual duty cycle mode for a nice even boil. the mypin branded ssrs are cheap (likely one of the generic fotek suppliers makes them) but mine still works fine (as well as the 2 25a foteks I bought 4 years ago too for that matter) I only used them for 4500w or less though. (18amps max)

I would buy that and replace the ssr with a the mager one I linked with the heatsink.. keep the fotek for an emergency spare..

my leds are 3 watt and running at 2watts..
 
augiedoggy said:
I used 4 mypin td4 pids for 4 years I think they are a great pid and value.. the td4 series has manual duty cycle mode for a nice even boil. the mypin branded ssrs are cheap (likely one of the generic fotek suppliers makes them) but mine still works fine (as well as the 2 25a foteks I bought 4 years ago too for that matter) I only used them for 4500w or less though. (18amps max)

I would buy that and replace the ssr with a the mager one I linked with the heatsink.. keep the fotek for an emergency spare..

my leds are 3 watt and running at 2watts..
Click to expand...



Sounds good. I have looked a few places and cant find any 4500w elements. they seem to all be 5500w for some reason. I thought Brewhardware used to carry a 4500w ripple but its 5500w

Thanks for all the information
 
You have to tighten the connections on SSRs occasionally. Heating and cooling makes them become loose. I'd wager that most SSR catastrophes are due to this phenominon. I've been using one Fotek and one Auber one for a while, no issues. If you have more than 20amps on one, use a bigger heat sink than those little junk things they come with.
 
off the original topic but will a 4500w element be good enough for 10 gallon batches if I need to do one? I would guess it would but probably slower?
 
GoodaleBrewing said:
off the original topic but will a 4500w element be good enough for 10 gallon batches if I need to do one? I would guess it would but probably slower?
Click to expand...

I'd say yes; you will only see a difference in the time it takes to get to a boil. I doubt it will make a significant difference while you are boiling. I run my 5500W heater at 65% duty cycle during the boil. I typically do 5 gallon batches but it holds a rolling boil fine even for 10 gallons.
 
GoodaleBrewing said:
Sounds good. I have looked a few places and cant find any 4500w elements. they seem to all be 5500w for some reason. I thought Brewhardware used to carry a 4500w ripple but its 5500w

Thanks for all the information
Click to expand...

Electric brewery.com thru spike as well as ebrew supply has them along with eBay... (Dernold brand) Just get the one with the stainless base the 4500w one allows one to run more off a 30a circuit at the same time. For example I run my 4500w hlt element to heat my sparge water while my 1800w rims is maintaining mash temps or step mashing... Also the relays wire size and everything else can be smaller and cheaper so there's that if it's a budget build... I did upgrade my BK element to 5500w since I'm not running any other elements during the boil and my DC pumps only use like 1 amp..
 
Do yourself a favor and get one from auberins. And you need a 40 amp. They cost a little more but it will save you a headache. My motto is you get what you pay for. Cheers
 
I bought a enclosure box 16x16x8, a 80a heat sink and custom plate for the heat sink for around 120$. The heat sink comes tapped as well.
 
newtobrew1981 said:
Do yourself a favor and get one from auberins. And you need a 40 amp. They cost a little more but it will save you a headache. My motto is you get what you pay for. Cheers
Click to expand...

Honestly as already mentioned in the thread, auberins just sells the mager made ssrs with their own brand name on the sticker (The MGR-1 in the model number stands for mager) vs this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mager-40A-S...244314?hash=item5b2516545a:g:MWoAAOSwo0JWJzxJ or http://www.ebay.com/itm/SSR-40A-DC-...c99085e13a0fe82a74&pid=100643&rk=1&rkt=1&only Auberins being a middleman, charges more plus shipping and the sell the grease and heatsink separate (plus shipping which comes out to exactly $31.00 for me if I wanted to order the exact same thing as linked on ebay for under $15)...
Unfortunately You dont always get what you pay for sometimes you just get what someone else wants you to pay more for .. but they love it when you believe that line of thinking and count on it when developing their prices..
those ssrs that auberins sell are available for under $4 each if you buy them in bulk as auberins or Ebrew supply does. and if you order enough of them to have your own brand name put on them they are even cheaper...
I bought two of them on amazon in december with the Berme name on them for $3.50 each with shipping like this one..notice the model number convention is the same as aubers only it says BEM-1 4840 instead of MGR-1 4840.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-480V-AC-...829638?hash=item4d548a4546:g:7cIAAOSwfVpYqHyv
So that $15+ shipping ssr from auber costs them maybe $3-4 with their custom sticker on it.. (and thats being generous)
 
newtobrew1981 said:
The heat sink is not anodized
Click to expand...

lol... you got me, for all the practical difference that makes here
you can buy this anodized one for under $2
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-He...259265?hash=item3d209e6fc1:g:rDsAAOSwIgNXktBp
or
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-He...484523a913b98c9e5ff83f&pid=100505&rk=1&rkt=1&
and this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-480V-AC-...829638?hash=item4d548a4546:g:7cIAAOSwfVpYqHyv for
under $8 total or this if you want the mager branded one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mager-SSR-4...867853?hash=item211b88c0cd:g:liEAAOSwcUBYPnpe
dont forget the thermal grease..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thermal-Com...681670?hash=item3f5443fdc6:g:47wAAOSwQTVWBSx1
its a bit cheaper than the solution I listed earlier..
 
newtobrew1981 said:
Those heat are only painted black to make them loOK anodized lol
Click to expand...
Why do you say that? not the one I bought ive been using them for 4 years now and it does what its supposed to..heres 2 anodized ones for $9. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aluminum-He...b029227&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=262886473060

Theres a thread here discussing the whole anodized vs bare and the difference is negligible. I think this is a silly thing to pay over 3 times as much for to begin with but its your prerogative to justify your purchase.

if you were worried about the heatsink being enough then you could buy something like this..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heat-Sink-f...052385?hash=item45fed409a1:g:keQAAOSwyQtVlKDN
or http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-3-32V-to...589573?hash=item51c365f385:g:93sAAOSw9GhYcBfu

heres a seller I found with fast shipping BTW if the op or anyone is still looking..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/25A-AC-Soli...904995?hash=item3f569a7de3:g:E50AAOSwuTxWAGOd and this larger heatsink combo with the 40a version.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SSR-40A-DC-...892559?hash=item5b2c38044f:g:EesAAOSw8gVX9HUs

I think the OP has plenty of info to make his own choice at this point with whatever direction he (or she) wants to go..
 
anodized or not doesnt matter on what comes with it anyways. I have that large 5"X10" heatsink that I am planning to use anyways since its free and setting in my basement. It's anodized but doesn't matter since its huge
 
well if you looking for the best bet as far as quality for the best price NEW then the mager ones are a good choice. Crydoms are really good but there are fakes of those being sold too so you have to be careful...
The biggest message to take away from all this is stay away from the generic white ones like the ones that say fotek on them and youll be fine... despite the luck ive had with mine Ive seen way too many failures on these here..
 

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