Ss Brewtech 1/5 hp glycol chiller

[PenguinChillers]

Bollocks. The advertised HP is the power rating of the compressor the unit employs and that does translate directly to a power draw value. The advertised BTUs/Hr is the measured chilling power under standardised conditions which might or might not match actual operating conditions but that's an entirely different issue that some users have rightfully raised.

The ratio of cooling power to power draw is the only measure of efficiency and I stand by my statement that at least according to the manufacturer's specs your designs are less efficient, contrary to what you keep falsely claiming.

As I said before HP in the small chiller world doesn't seem to make any rational sense if you are making assumptions based on knowledge from other industries/applications. Most of the refrigeration world is measured by the ton (12,000 BTU/hr), not HP.

Ratio of power draw to cooling capacity is the correct measure, but your wrong on trying to say we make false claims. Here's the data, feel free to verify it, ask other owners, I'm sure there's enough people out there that own a chiller and watt meter.

Icemaster 100 - 3/8HP
Tested with load @ 28F = 1350 BTU/hr
Wattage draw at wall @ 28F = 471watts
Efficiency = 2.87 BTU/hr/Watt
Cost ($749.99) = $0.56 per BTU/hr @ 28F


1/2HP Penguin
Tested with load @28F = 2850 BTU/hr
Wattage draw at wall @ 28F = 402 watts
Efficiency = 7.09 BTU/hr/Watt
Cost ($999.99) = $0.35 per BTU/hr @ 28F

What was I claiming previously.... that we were roughly 2x as efficient? I suppose I was selling us short, it's closer to 2.5x more efficient.

Now that you have all the data how would you attempt to accurately compare a 3/8HP vs 1/2HP using HP?
Is the 1/2HP 150% more HP than 3/8HP.... yes.
Does the 1/2HP provide 150% more BTU/hr than the 3/8HP.... no it's 210% more.
Does the 1/2HP consume 150% more power.... no it draws 15% less.

So full circle back to my original statements that apparently offended you -
1. HP is not a good way to compare small chillers.
2. Our chillers are more efficient
3. Efficiency is largely due to the more efficient nature of the type of compressor we use.

Note: wattage draw taken using Kill-a-watt meter at the wall in a 60F shop, draw will be slightly higher for both units in warmer ambient conditions, but ratios should remain fairly consistent

 

[Jtvann]

As I said before HP in the small chiller world doesn't seem to make any rational sense if you are making assumptions based on knowledge from other industries/applications. Most of the refrigeration world is measured by the ton (12,000 BTU/hr), not HP.

Ratio of power draw to cooling capacity is the correct measure, but your wrong on trying to say we make false claims. Here's the data, feel free to verify it, ask other owners, I'm sure there's enough people out there that own a chiller and watt meter.

Icemaster 100 - 3/8HP
Tested with load @ 28F = 1350 BTU/hr
Wattage draw at wall @ 28F = 471watts
Efficiency = 2.87 BTU/hr/Watt
Cost ($749.99) = $0.56 per BTU/hr @ 28F


1/2HP Penguin
Tested with load @28F = 2850 BTU/hr
Wattage draw at wall @ 28F = 402 watts
Efficiency = 7.09 BTU/hr/Watt
Cost ($999.99) = $0.35 per BTU/hr @ 28F

What was I claiming previously.... that we were roughly 2x as efficient? I suppose I was selling us short, it's closer to 2.5x more efficient.

Now that you have all the data how would you attempt to accurately compare a 3/8HP vs 1/2HP using HP?
Is the 1/2HP 150% more HP than 3/8HP.... yes.
Does the 1/2HP provide 150% more BTU/hr than the 3/8HP.... no it's 210% more.
Does the 1/2HP consume 150% more power.... no it draws 15% less.

So full circle back to my original statements that apparently offended you -
1. HP is not a good way to compare small chillers.
2. Our chillers are more efficient
3. Efficiency is largely due to the more efficient nature of the type of compressor we use.

Note: wattage draw taken using Kill-a-watt meter at the wall in a 60F shop, draw will be slightly higher for both units in warmer ambient conditions, but ratios should remain fairly consistent

As you also said before "I'm clearly not gonna win you over, and that's fine". If it's fine to not win everyone over, quit trying. I've got to say, this is just only my opinion ... this thread is not a good look for penguin chillers. The facts have been clearly stated, multiple times ... with explanation again multiple times.

I'm not going to try to argue one way vs another against numbers. The tone is offputting though.

 

[PenguinChillers]

As you also said before "I'm clearly not gonna win you over, and that's fine". If it's fine to not win everyone over, quit trying. I've got to say, this is just only my opinion ... this thread is not a good look for penguin chillers. The facts have been clearly stated, multiple times ... with explanation again multiple times.

I'm not going to try to argue one way vs another against numbers. The tone is offputting though.

So now that there are hard verifiable numbers in front of you- you want to give up, or fall back on your prior inaccurate "facts" and still say I'm in the wrong?

Yes, your tone has been off putting. Trying to say I'm making false claims and misrepresenting our products is a pretty serious claim, you better believe I'm gonna defend my small family owned US business and make sure all the facts are out there for everyone to see. I'd be surprised if anyone else reading this whole thread comes away with a negative view towards our business, but I suppose some might. We have a pretty good customer service reputation and no shortage of prior customers willing to say the same.

 

[Jtvann]

Um ... check your names dude. You've been baited down a rabbit hole by vail71 and have come across making yourself or your company as a jackass. I was the one that said throw your numbers at the wall and see what sticks. You've explained yourself as many ways as you can. Keep a firm grasp of the shovel and continue digging.

My original offer stands. I was the one who said screw numbers and let's do a test. I'm still in that boat alone, as to what that would show.

My comment about this thread not being a good look ... most all of us here are random anonymous hobbyists with opinions of very variable worth. You are not. You're representing penguin, in a very argumentative, demeaning, and accusational tone. This is really turning into a pissing match where everybody is just getting pissed on. It matters for you though.

 

[PenguinChillers]

Um ... check your names dude. You've been baited down a rabbit hole by vail71 and have come across making yourself or your company as a jackass. I was the one that said throw your numbers at the wall and see what sticks. You've explained yourself as many ways as you can. Keep a firm grasp of the shovel and continue digging.

My original offer stands. I was the one who said screw numbers and let's do a test. I'm still in that boat alone, as to what that would show.

My comment about this thread not being a good look ... most all of us here are random anonymous hobbyists with opinions of very variable worth. You are not. You're representing penguin, in a very argumentative, demeaning, and accusational tone. This is really turning into a pissing match where everybody is just getting pissed on. It matters for you though.

My apologizes, I didn't realize it was someone else responding.

My tone is a direct reflection of what vail was laying down.... was it the best tone... probably not... but hey we're here now. I did not expect this to be a hostile forum when all I was trying to do was inform anyone interested.

 

[Jtvann]

My apologizes, I didn't realize it was someone else responding.

My tone is a direct reflection of what vail was laying down.... was it the best tone... probably not... but hey we're here now. I did not expect this to be a hostile forum when all I was trying to do was inform anyone interested.

No worries on my end. I think most everybody on these forums recognizes names to know what kind of post to expect from each other. Dont wrestle with pigs. You'll both get dirty but the pig will enjoy it.

 

[JMolek]

When I was in the market for a chiller, I compared SS & Penguin off of what they had made available for the public to see. Penguin has always shown more statistics for their chillers. SS just tells you that their chiller chills vessels, well obviously. I chose the Penguin 1/2 HP, and have been in love with it since I had gotten it. I had an issue with the icing issue and contacted Penguin, and immediately had a response on how to correct the issue, and it worked. When you try to chill your beer too fast, it will freeze. When you follow the directions of the manufacturer, the equipment performs as expected. When I'm in the market for a larger chiller someday, I'll go right back to Penguin. I much rather do business with a small family company that specializes in what they sell than do business that just keeps adding another aspect to their sales line and doesn't show any technical stats.

 

[Beholder]

When I was in the market for a chiller, I compared SS & Penguin off of what they had made available for the public to see. Penguin has always shown more statistics for their chillers. SS just tells you that their chiller chills vessels, well obviously. I chose the Penguin 1/2 HP, and have been in love with it since I had gotten it. I had an issue with the icing issue and contacted Penguin, and immediately had a response on how to correct the issue, and it worked. When you try to chill your beer too fast, it will freeze. When you follow the directions of the manufacturer, the equipment performs as expected. When I'm in the market for a larger chiller someday, I'll go right back to Penguin. I much rather do business with a small family company that specializes in what they sell than do business that just keeps adding another aspect to their sales line and doesn't show any technical stats.

I agree - I assess SSB as excellent marketing with acceptable engineering. If you put any of their products up against a specialized company, in some cases they are roughly the same (Kettles vs. Blichmann) and in other cases they are second-tier (conicals vs. Stout). As an engineer, I compare on specifications and design. All are welcome to their views though, so I don’t knock anyone for being an SSB fan. They make some slick equipment that does generally function well and is interoperable, so there is certainly value in that. I only wanted to support the discussion in this thread that I have not found them to be best in class against others that specialize in a category.

 

[Vale71]

As I said before HP in the small chiller world doesn't seem to make any rational sense if you are making assumptions based on knowledge from other industries/applications. Most of the refrigeration world is measured by the ton (12,000 BTU/hr), not HP.

Ratio of power draw to cooling capacity is the correct measure, but your wrong on trying to say we make false claims. Here's the data, feel free to verify it, ask other owners, I'm sure there's enough people out there that own a chiller and watt meter.

Icemaster 100 - 3/8HP
Tested with load @ 28F = 1350 BTU/hr
Wattage draw at wall @ 28F = 471watts
Efficiency = 2.87 BTU/hr/Watt
Cost ($749.99) = $0.56 per BTU/hr @ 28F


1/2HP Penguin
Tested with load @28F = 2850 BTU/hr
Wattage draw at wall @ 28F = 402 watts
Efficiency = 7.09 BTU/hr/Watt
Cost ($999.99) = $0.35 per BTU/hr @ 28F

What was I claiming previously.... that we were roughly 2x as efficient? I suppose I was selling us short, it's closer to 2.5x more efficient.

Now that you have all the data how would you attempt to accurately compare a 3/8HP vs 1/2HP using HP?
Is the 1/2HP 150% more HP than 3/8HP.... yes.
Does the 1/2HP provide 150% more BTU/hr than the 3/8HP.... no it's 210% more.
Does the 1/2HP consume 150% more power.... no it draws 15% less.

So full circle back to my original statements that apparently offended you -
1. HP is not a good way to compare small chillers.
2. Our chillers are more efficient
3. Efficiency is largely due to the more efficient nature of the type of compressor we use.

Note: wattage draw taken using Kill-a-watt meter at the wall in a 60F shop, draw will be slightly higher for both units in warmer ambient conditions, but ratios should remain fairly consistent

Nice switch and bait. You were comparing your products with SSB's products (the latter are also the subject of this thread BTW). Now suddenly it's Icemaster's products which were never mentioned up to this point?

Care to explain how a comparison with Icemaster's product proves that Penguin's products are more efficient than SS Brewtech's?

 

[PenguinChillers]

Nice switch and bait. You were comparing your products with SSB's products (the latter are also the subject of this thread BTW). Now suddenly it's Icemaster's products which were never mentioned up to this point?

Care to explain how a comparison with Icemaster's product proves that Penguin's products are more efficient than SS Brewtech's?

Here's my original statement:

Should also note that our chillers use rotary compressors which are inherently more efficient than the reciprocating compressor that SSbrew uses. Typically about twice as efficient, so I'm willing to bet that both chiller pull about the same amount of power but ours provides much more cooling.

To which you replied:

The specs (yours and SSB's) claim:

SSB 3/8 HP = 3576 BTU/Hr
Penguin 1/2 HP = 2,850 BTU/Hr

According to the specs your product appears to be actually less efficient, requiring slightly more power to produce only about 80% of the cooling.

The SSbrew chillers use reciprocating compressors, same as the Icemaster. There is an inherent difference in compressor efficiencies between reciprocating compressors and rotary compressors . While we don't have the new line of SSbrew chillers, we have tested against the prior SSbrew 1/3HP model, and the data falls right in line with what I would expect for a reciprocating compressor. You don't need to own a new one to tell what type of compressor is being used, it's pretty clear in the photos if you know what to look at. Rotary compressors on average will be 2x more efficient than a reciprocating compressor.

My other point was HP is no way to compare small chillers across brands, Icemaster comparison helps prove this point. You insist HP has meaning with regards to electric draw, output, or efficiency.... it does not... at least in this market. I wish HP did have meaning in our market, might make comparing and sizing chillers easier for the consumer.

Since SSbrew doesn't post electric specs, I suppose you would need to ask them for the electric specs on the new line.

 

[Jtvann]

Looks like this is as low as I can maintain.

Figure that's not to bad for a second tier conical thats using uninsulated cooling lines, is non jacketed, and only acceptably engineered. These units obviously dont specialize in their category. All that with a reciprocating compressor if you can believe it.

I think it was said before that results mean more than advertising. Is this the best thing out there? Obviously not, codesection got down to 28 degrees. How about let's just stop all the brand name bashing. They're all probably pretty good.

 

[Beholder]

Looks like this is as low as I can maintain.

Figure that's not to bad for a second tier conical thats using uninsulated cooling lines, is non jacketed, and only acceptably engineered. These units obviously dont specialize in their category. All that with a reciprocating compressor if you can believe it.

I think it was said before that results mean more than advertising. Is this the best thing out there? Obviously not, codesection got down to 28 degrees. How about let's just stop all the brand name bashing. They're all probably pretty good.

They are all pretty good, but in some applications (such as others that have had issues reaching even 40), pretty good sometimes doesn’t cut it. It’s good that it works for you in your circumstance and can achieve that on your system (in the winter [emoji6] j/k).

Didn’t mean to wind up the SSB crew, as the engineering works. I only wanted to highlight vendors that have products with precision engineering, since I do the same for a living in a different profession (e.g. thousands of an inch machining on something the size of your house).

I find Penguin superior to SSB in chillers with greater chilling efficiency - just the explanations of the sales rep (/owner?) illustrates the point, though I guess it’s only appreciated if one has a technical background.

That doesn’t mean SSB doesn’t work (it certainly does with many satisfied customers!), only that you’ll pay more in operating costs and maintenance, but like I said in my earlier post, most brewers don’t care about that, so RDWHAHB!

 

[Jtvann]

They are all pretty good, but in some applications (such as others that have had issues reaching even 40), pretty good sometimes doesn’t cut it. It’s good that it works for you in your circumstance and can achieve that on your system (in the winter [emoji6] j/k).

Didn’t mean to wind up the SSB crew, as the engineering works. I only wanted to highlight vendors that have products with precision engineering, since I do the same for a living in a different profession (e.g. thousands of an inch machining on something the size of your house).

I find Penguin superior to SSB in chillers with greater chilling efficiency - just the explanations of the sales rep (/owner?) illustrates the point, though I guess it’s only appreciated if one has a technical background.

That doesn’t mean SSB doesn’t work (it certainly does with many satisfied customers!), only that you’ll pay more in operating costs and maintenance, but like I said in my earlier post, most brewers don’t care about that, so RDWHAHB!

Responding this this thread has become pointless. I feel like I said enough with the posted picture. You can add all the smiley faces and jk's that you want, but it's really not funny. If I need to post another pictures in July I will. You do realize that bashing something into the ground has nothing at all to do with how good something else is right? How many swipes can be made at Ss in a single post?

1- success only in the winter ... jk
2- highlight precision vendors, Ss must obviously not be one
3- penguin superior because of something the owner said, but need a technical background to understand
4- Pay more in operating costs and maintenance

If you are happy with your purchase ... great, I'm happy for you. I dont feel any need whatsoever to say you over paid for a lesser product. What's the point from the reverse angle? What are you trying to achieve or prove?

Didn't mean to wind up the Ss crew? You sure took enough shots at the Ss crew. I think the Ss crew has said all that it needs to with the above attached picture.

Post your own picture as I have above. With Ss being such an inferior product, it should be easy enough to do.

 

[wasully]

U
My original offer stands. I was the one who said screw numbers and let's do a test. I'm still in that boat alone, as to what that would show.

My comment about this thread not being a good look ... most all of us here are random anonymous hobbyists with opinions of very variable worth. You are not. You're representing penguin,

If I were a company, I'd want to make sure the person publicly reviewing/testing my equipment was knowledgeable, and reputable. Not random anonymous internet hobbyists.

Brulosophy is great example-super popular blog, interesting ideas, but the experiments, intended conclusions and actual conclusions can miss the mark.

Maybe Cooler A cold crashes in 90 minutes and Cooler B in 180. But for a 2-3 day crash, does it genuinely matter? If managing the fermentation temperature only takes a hypothetical 2000 btu/h, does Cooler A's capacity of 5000 btu/h actually allow the production of a better beer compared to Cooler B's capacity of 3500 btu/h?

I can imagine circumstances like that where Cooler A can be a superior product in every technical, objective measurement. But in the subjective measurement of "Did I make better beer?" not actually stand out against Cooler B.

But I'm just some random anonymous hobbyist.

 

[Vale71]

Maybe Cooler A cold crashes in 90 minutes and Cooler B in 180. But for a 2-3 day crash, does it genuinely matter? If managing the fermentation temperature only takes a hypothetical 2000 btu/h, does Cooler A's capacity of 5000 btu/h actually allow the production of a better beer compared to Cooler B's capacity of 3500 btu/h?
.

Such a test would be even below Brülosophy's already abysmally low level.
That's be like judging the performance of a car based on how much fun you had with the family at Disneyworld just because you used that car to drive there.

 

[Beholder]

Responding this this thread has become pointless. I feel like I said enough with the posted picture. You can add all the smiley faces and jk's that you want, but it's really not funny. If I need to post another pictures in July I will. You do realize that bashing something into the ground has nothing at all to do with how good something else is right? How many swipes can be made at Ss in a single post?

1- success only in the winter ... jk
2- highlight precision vendors, Ss must obviously not be one
3- penguin superior because of something the owner said, but need a technical background to understand
4- Pay more in operating costs and maintenance

If you are happy with your purchase ... great, I'm happy for you. I dont feel any need whatsoever to say you over paid for a lesser product. What's the point from the reverse angle? What are you trying to achieve or prove?

Didn't mean to wind up the Ss crew? You sure took enough shots at the Ss crew. I think the Ss crew has said all that it needs to with the above attached picture.

Post your own picture as I have above. With Ss being such an inferior product, it should be easy enough to do.

Just brewed yesterday, so I’ll post a pic in a couple weeks when I crash it, which will show my system works for me in my location. Unfortunately, it won’t help others that are having chilling system issues.

Others in this thread have noted countless threads of users facing chilling system issues, which is why I joined the discussion in the first place. Simply having a technical discussion on what could be causing those and the inaccurate problem diagnoses that then turn into negativity. Only trying to help others solve their issues and not spend time going down the wrong rabbit hole.

It looks like SSB works for you in your location, so happy brewing friend.

 

[CodeSection]

.....Others in this thread have noted countless threads of users facing chilling system issues, which is why I joined the discussion in the first place. Simply having a technical discussion on what could be causing those and the inaccurate problem diagnoses that then turn into negativity. Only trying to help others solve their issues and not spend time going down the wrong rabbit hole.

It looks like SSB works for you in your location, so happy brewing friend.

I suspect you must be referring to me. Yes, I entered the conversation once the Penguin Chiller owner started taking a swipe at the Icemaster 100. Since this was a discussion regarding the SSB, and since he has probably read what I and others have posted (including how the Icemaster 100 has a better warranty and return policy along with not making the buyer to pay freight on returns as compared to the Penguin), I suspect he was looking for a reason to introduce the Icemaster 100 into the discussion.

I appreciate the information you have given along with the Penguin Chiller owner of posting a link to a possible solution for owners that have cold crashing issues with their Penguin chillers. I still am trying to reconcile why he had not suggested that solution in all those other threads. I'm wondering why those with problems with their Penguin chiller haven't posted that they no longer are limited by roughly 36-40F cold crashing temps or that they are able to crash to 28F. I'm wondering why the size of the reservoir between various units is not being discussed. One would think the size of the reservoir would play an important role.

Now the math. Using unverified results in post #41 and for the sake of argument, let's say there is a cost difference of $0.21 BTU/hr @ 28F. If I then compare my purchase price (due to sale) of $679.99 for the 3/8HP Icemaster 100 to the Penguin's cost of $999.99 for their 1/2HP chiller, that equals a difference in cost of $320.00. When $320 is divided by the unverified $0.21 efficiency difference, that equals roughly 1,524 chilling hours to breakeven using simple math. I'm not concerned about saving pennies sometime in the future. Rather, I'm concerned about achieving performance.

I have never read a post about the Icemaster 100 not being able to cold crash to a particular temperature. I have read posts about others having problems with other manufacturers. The posts describing their frustrations are there and can easily be searched and verified.

As can been seen in my previous post showing a picture of my Icemaster 100 results, you will notice I was able to easily achieve 28F WITHOUT cold crashing steps. It appears other manufacturers may need cold crashing steps and yet, that may not be a solution.

At the end of the day, buyers want their units to work and to cold crash to a particular temperature (whatever that may be). I do not believe they are being unrealistic in their expectations. It seems when one complains about the Penguin chiller, the automatic response cites various factors etc. While true that ambient temps, insulation etc affect the ability to cold crash, you don't read posts citing the same factors regarding the Icemaster 100. I wonder why you haven't read such a complaint involving the Icemaster 100 with the same citations.

To suggest "inaccurate problem diagnoses" from all those having problems cold crashing with their Penguin chillers is not fair. Their issues are real. Their posts are real.

 

[Beholder]

I suspect you must be referring to me. Yes, I entered the conversation once the Penguin Chiller owner started taking a swipe at the Icemaster 100. Since this was a discussion regarding the SSB, and since he has probably read what I and others have posted (including how the Icemaster 100 has a better warranty and return policy along with not making the buyer to pay freight on returns as compared to the Penguin), I suspect he was looking for a reason to introduce the Icemaster 100 into the discussion.

I appreciate the information you have given along with the Penguin Chiller owner of posting a link to a possible solution for owners that have cold crashing issues with their Penguin chillers. I still am trying to reconcile why he had not suggested that solution in all those other threads. I'm wondering why those with problems with their Penguin chiller haven't posted that they no longer are limited by roughly 36-40F cold crashing temps or that they are able to crash to 28F. I'm wondering why the size of the reservoir between various units is not being discussed. One would think the size of the reservoir would play an important role.

Now the math. Using unverified results in post #41 and for the sake of argument, let's say there is a cost difference of $0.21 BTU/hr @ 28F. If I then compare my purchase price (due to sale) of $679.99 for the 3/8HP Icemaster 100 to the Penguin's cost of $999.99 for their 1/2HP chiller, that equals a difference in cost of $320.00. When $320 is divided by the unverified $0.21 efficiency difference, that equals roughly 1,524 chilling hours to breakeven using simple math. I'm not concerned about saving pennies sometime in the future. Rather, I'm concerned about achieving performance.

I have never read a post about the Icemaster 100 not being able to cold crash to a particular temperature. I have read posts about others having problems with other manufacturers. The posts describing their frustrations are there and can easily be searched and verified.

As can been seen in my previous post showing a picture of my Icemaster 100 results, you will notice I was able to easily achieve 28F WITHOUT cold crashing steps. It appears other manufacturers may need cold crashing steps and yet, that may not be a solution.

At the end of the day, buyers want their units to work and to cold crash to a particular temperature (whatever that may be). I do not believe they are being unrealistic in their expectations. It seems when one complains about the Penguin chiller, the automatic response cites various factors etc. While true that ambient temps, insulation etc affect the ability to cold crash, you don't read posts citing the same factors regarding the Icemaster 100. I wonder why you haven't read such a complaint involving the Icemaster 100 with the same citations.

To suggest "inaccurate problem diagnoses" from all those having problems cold crashing with their Penguin chillers is not fair. Their issues are real. Their posts are real.

Let’s take the conversation into those threads - I expect they have been resolved in the meantime, but if they haven’t, we can talk through the specific factors there and perhaps help.

It’s difficult to make general statements that lay the root cause to a specific piece of equipment in the system, which is the essence of the discussion. It’s not the chiller, or the conical, or the lines, but all of them together in the system. If you want to lay blame to the chiller, you might as well point faults in the conical and the lines as well. With an integrated system (like the SSB one) a user stands a better chance that it will work well, but only if used under the conditions for which it was designed (in a climate conditioned room for example) - too extreme / mix-matching components and it won’t work as expected. If all components of the system are designed well, then the system will be more robust and work in a wide variety of conditions.

To answer your reservoir question, its size sets the cooling capacity storage of the system and the contact area of the cooling coil inside the reservoir sets the heat rate that the cooling system can pull. If that is greater than the heat rate (which it should be since it is a convective heat transfer on both sides of the coils) than the conical cooling system can pull (overcoming any addition heat sinks in the system like valves, noninsulated lines, etc.), then that effectively sets the steady state temperature a given system can reach. It’s like trying to sip through a small straw - the system tries to pull heat, but is limited by the smallest cooling area / heat transfer coefficient (while heat sinks in this analogy are adding more water to the cup).

 

[CodeSection]

Let’s take the conversation into those threads - I expect they have been resolved in the meantime, but if they haven’t, we can talk through the specific factors there and perhaps help.

It’s difficult to make general statements that lay the root cause to a specific piece of equipment in the system, which is the essence of the discussion. It’s not the chiller, or the conical, or the lines, but all of them together in the system. If you want to lay blame to the chiller, you might as well point faults in the conical and the lines as well. With an integrated system (like the SSB one) a user stands a better chance that it will work well, but only if used under the conditions for which it was designed (in a climate conditioned room for example) - too extreme / mix-matching components and it won’t work as expected. If all components of the system are designed well, then the system will be more robust and work in a wide variety of conditions.

To answer your reservoir question, its size sets the cooling capacity storage of the system and the contact area of the cooling coil inside the reservoir sets the heat rate that the cooling system can pull. If that is greater than the heat rate (which it should be since it is a convective heat transfer on both sides of the coils) than the conical cooling system can pull (overcoming any addition heat sinks in the system like valves, noninsulated lines, etc.), then that effectively sets the steady state temperature a given system can reach. It’s like trying to sip through a small straw - the system tries to pull heat, but is limited by the smallest cooling area / heat transfer coefficient (while heat sinks in this analogy are adding more water to the cup).

But yet, you do not read any posts from owners of the Icemaster 100 that have different pieces of equipment/conicals, that have different lines, that use different insulation, that live in different areas of the country, that have different ambient temps, etc. complaining they cannot cold crash below 36-40F as is seen with other chiller manufacturers......

 

[elgee]

Interesting. Not to be argumentative, but as you are aware, other threads have many HBT members having trouble getting below 40F with their Penguin chiller. As for my Icemaster 100, I easily was able to go to 28F as can be seen in a picture on another thread. My thought why Penguin owners were struggling was due to Penguin's glycol reservoir capacity itself (1/3 HP only five quarts, 1/2 HP only two gallons, and 1 HP only three gallons), as compared to the Icemaster 100 glycol reservoir of eight gallons. I've never read where someone posted of achieving 28F with any of your units.

Now if you are referring to efficiency and cost, and trying to say your product is better than the competition, I will take your word for it. However, I care about the unit of actually obtaining a crashing lower temperature of at least 28F and not on any differences in pennies saved or not. The Icemaster 100 achieves this.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your argument or position....

Here is my experience with the Penguin. I have the 1/3 HP Penguin. I run a 5 gallon Ss Cronical and a 10 gallon Ss Brite (have not used both at the same time, as I only make one beer at a time)I can hold temps in the low 30’s for weeks also cold crash with no issues, so I don’t know why people can’t get below 40? Eric has been helpful with his advice to me when asked about this. Possibly when the glycol temp is set too low, it will freeze the chiller coils, but I’ve never had that issue and I keep the Penguin at 28. This is just my experience, and I am glad I got this chiller. I’m also currently fermenting a lager with no issues. Again, just my experience and I don’t run large batches over 5 gallons.

 

[Beholder]

Finally got to crashing the brew, so I thought I’d post a picture - I only brought it to 32 F with a 30 F cooler point as it is a low ABV (~3%), so has a higher freeze point than the 28 F guideline for 5% ABV.

With a 90+ ambient temperature (FL in spring lol) and driven by a temperature difference of 2 F, it illustrates the value of jacketed fermenters with large cooling surface along with fermenter and line insulation, which becomes critical if you cannot reach set points.

 

[wasully]

Finally got to crashing the brew, so I thought I’d post a picture - I only brought it to 32 F with a 30 F cooler point as it is a low ABV (~3%), so has a higher freeze point than the 28 F guideline for 5% ABV.

With a 90+ ambient temperature (FL in spring lol) and driven by a temperature difference of 2 F, it illustrates the value of jacketed fermenters with large cooling surface along with fermenter and line insulation, which becomes critical if you cannot reach set points.

View attachment 672251

What jacketed fermenters are there that aren't commercial quantity?

You save the hassle of cleaning the coils with a jacketed fermenter, too.

 

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I

What jacketed fermenters are there that aren't commercial quantity?

You save the hassle of cleaning the coils with a jacketed fermenter, too.

I’ve not seen any suitable for 5 gallon batches, i.e. in the 7-10 gallon range, but there are a few suitable for 10 gal or half barrel such as Speidel, Stout, and a bunch make fermenters suitable for 1 bbl, which I expect is the upper limit of batch size for home brewing.

 

[Tom R]

I can make 6 gallon batches with my 15 gallon Jacketed conical:
https://www.brewershardware.com/15-...Jacketed-Conical-Fermentor-CONICAL15G-FJ.html

They also make an 8 gallon model:
https://www.brewershardware.com/8-Gallon-Stainless-Steel-Glycol-Jacketed-Conical-Fermentor.html

Not the cheapest solution, but if you can swing it, they sure are nice to work with.