Split Batch APA and Saison advice

[rupert130]

I am planning an 8 gallon batch that I will ferment with a local saison strain and Kölsch yeast in separate fermentors.
I would like to know if anyone has experience fermenting to dryness with this or a similar grain bill:

50% Pale 2-row
30% Vienna
20% Munich 10L

They are all base malts so I do not forsee a problem, but I thought I would source the vast experience on this forum.

Thanks

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

hmmm i don't think its going to give you a very Saison styled beer with that grain... Typically you need to have Pilsner style malts to achieve the level of dryness that you would be looking for in a Saison. I would say if you are looking to acheive a dryness from the Saison, I would recommend adding some sugar to it in the boil, but that will definitely change the characteristics of your your APA... They are so different in style, that you will most likely hurt one while trying to improve the other...

Just a suggestion... But it seems you are going with Kolsch yeast for one... I would scratch the Saison Idea unless you change your recipe over and take out the 2-ROW and replace with Pilsener malt.

If you decide to not change the base malts, I would say do not use that Saison yeast and instead go with a windsor or London esb style yeast... You will have two completely different beers that way, just not a Saison.

 

[rupert130]

hmmm i don't think its going to give you a very Saison styled beer with that grain... Typically you need to have Pilsner style malts to achieve the level of dryness that you would be looking for in a Saison. I would say if you are looking to acheive a dryness from the Saison, I would recommend adding some sugar to it in the boil, but that will definitely change the characteristics of your your APA... They are so different in style, that you will most likely hurt one while trying to improve the other...

Just a suggestion... But it seems you are going with Kolsch yeast for one... I would scratch the Saison Idea unless you change your recipe over and take out the 2-ROW and replace with Pilsener malt.

If you decide to not change the base malts, I would say do not use that Saison yeast and instead go with a windsor or London esb style yeast... You will have two completely different beers that way, just not a Saison.

Thanks for the advice. I have no problem switching to pilsner malt. I will certainly consider it.

 

[rupert130]

hmmm i don't think its going to give you a very Saison styled beer with that grain... Typically you need to have Pilsner style malts to achieve the level of dryness that you would be looking for in a Saison. I would say if you are looking to acheive a dryness from the Saison, I would recommend adding some sugar to it in the boil, but that will definitely change the characteristics of your your APA... They are so different in style, that you will most likely hurt one while trying to improve the other...

Just a suggestion... But it seems you are going with Kolsch yeast for one... I would scratch the Saison Idea unless you change your recipe over and take out the 2-ROW and replace with Pilsener malt.

If you decide to not change the base malts, I would say do not use that Saison yeast and instead go with a windsor or London esb style yeast... You will have two completely different beers that way, just not a Saison.

I did a little research to check up on the fermentability of the two different base malts. American 2-row is as fermentable, if not more, as pilsner malt. I think I would get a dry beer with either. The pilsner may have a more crisp taste though. I am also considering limiting the Vienna and Munich to about 30% total of the grain bill.

70% 2-row or Pilsner
20% Vienna
10% Munich

 

[Bowtiebrewery]

Definitely around the same level of fermentability and would get you a certain crispness, but as far as Saison's are concerned, Pilsener malt is the go-to for that. Additionally, there is a certain taste and profile you would get from the Pilsener... I find that that you do have to drive off DMS with Pilsener malts in your boil, however ive never had any issues with it since most my Lagers get a 90 minute boil and a 90 minute (or more) mash)

I tend to keep my Munich under 1.5# for a 5g batch...

 

[rupert130]

Late update:
I ended up using the grain bill from post #4 and both beers came out excellent. The Kölsch yeast took it down to 1.011 and the Saison worked all the way down to 1.004. I have since been splitting batches and pitching Saison yeast on anything I make. The latest is wort from an American Wheat. 1.046 down to 1.004 in a week. This has turned out to be a great way to experiment with different grain bills for saisons.