I would just leave it as is. I don't think you're going to have any issues.
If it bothers you that much, take jekeane's advice and call Spike BEFORE you do anything to the conical.
Spike Conical- observations and best practices
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I would just leave it as is. I don't think you're going to have any issues.
If it bothers you that much, take jekeane's advice and call Spike BEFORE you do anything to the conical.
I sent Spike an email, I'll see what they say about it.
I ran I to the same with my flex+
I bought a SS t and a 1.5" tc cap with a 1/4 npt threaded hole. Found a 1/4 npt prv on mccmaster car.
That on one end and spunding valve on the other.
I'm sure there was some other way, but it worked for me.
Brian allerton
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Nice Work! What are the reducers you're using to connect the Gas & Liquid post to the temp coil inlets?
Nice! More details on the quick disconnects!
jdr01
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Can someone look at the lip on the conical where the lid goes? My lid keeps leaking gas with less than one pound of pressure. Makes me crazy. Gasket is in place correctly. I cranked the snot out of the ring last time. Hope I did not bend it. I can't remember if the lip was at 90 degrees or not. Here is a photo of mine for reference.
Thanks
Thanks
Attachments
Not sure what i can see in the photo...
But.. (and forgive me if you have tried this- but so so so many of us ((me too!)) have had this issue:
#1: gasket goes inside lid flat part down! This means the pointy part will point down towards floor when installed. (This looks and feels backwards but it is correct).
#2: place gasket in freezer for 10 minutes first.
#3: spary with food grade lubricant or a touch of keg lube. (Helps to spray the clamp screw too).
#4: handtighten the sheet out of the clamp. Use a towel to get the last 1/4 turn.
#5: use a spray bottle of star san to check for leaks. Slowly ramp up to 10 pi and spray EVERYWHERE there is a seam or potential leak. It may not even be the lid.
#6: remember if checking the psi with liquid in it, the liquid will absorb the gas and the needle will drop. Best to pressure test empty.
If all that passes, then maybe a better picture for us to see what you were asking about. After that, time to circle in spike.
jdr01
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jdr01
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I do have a new gasket so will test with that. The old one does not look any different that the new.
Thanks
Thanks
Yeah... that pic helps. Maybe it got clamped too hard?
Imo, the hardest part of the spike cf system is that dang lid. I always try to have a helper 'cause otherwise if it is not just perfect it won't seal right.
Hopefully someone else will chime in here
CodeSection
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That angle is not right. I seriously doubt tightening so hard caused that as the gasket would be squeezed together and would give, not the SS. I literally crank mine down.
I suspect it came that way. I suggest you contact Spike and submit a claim as they have a one year warranty.
Below are just a couple of pics of my CF10. As you can see, the lip is flat.
EDIT: This is disturbing as I no longer see a one year warranty listed on Spike's website. Matter-of-fact, their "Returns and Refunds" section only talks about returns and is silent on refunds and is silent on any warranty except for their Nano Systems and Spike Systems (Search).
If they no longer provide a written warranty on their conicals, kettles, etc., I can no longer recommend them. Can anyone else find their warranty information?
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jdr01
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Thanks for the images. Obviously mine has problems. Perhaps it gets metal fatigue after repeated use.
CodeSection
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The SS metal should NOT bend when tightening. Again, there is a rubber gasket in between the lid and the conical body. The rubber will distort before any metal.
This is the same design used on hundreds of thousand swimming pool's DE filters.
jekeane
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I have zero concern written or not that Spike would stand behind their products. If it concerns you I would shoot them an email.
About 6 months ago I realized that they forgot to send me something I had ordered in order of several different items. I realized this about 3 months after the package arrived. I looked all over for it but couldn't find it. While I think it is unlikely that I lost it, I had no way way to prove that they didn't mail it to me. I reached out to them and explained what I thought happened and three days later I had a $75 item no questions asked. Spike is as stand up a company as I have found.
jekeane
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That lip is wonky. all of mine are pretty much 90°. Reach out to Spike and they will figure it out. You would need hulk hand to bend that with the clamp so I assume it wasn't pressed right at the factory
CodeSection
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I find it quite interesting that they removed their warranty information that was there when I bought my CF10 a little more than two years ago.
Their competitors offer written warranties: Stout - 2 years, Brewers Hardware - 2 years, SS Brewtech - 1 year, to name a few. I guess some could argue that Stout and Brewers Hardware might be in a higher league.
It's great that you have zero concerns and I have had good experiences with them too. So, if they give good service and try to accommodate, then why did they remove their written warranty? After all, IF they are honoring claims, then there is no reason to remove it.
jekeane
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Honestly my guess is because some idiot did something with a unitank and tried to sue them. It could also just be an oversight.
Realistically what is their to warranty outside of manufacturing defects on anything they produce? Spikes front page says "At Spike, we take pride in our craftsmanship and ingenuity. Our team works tirelessly to deliver products that not only meet the demands of our customers, but exceed their expectations, too. And everything we make is designed, welded and assembled in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, so you can be confident that you are only minutes away from getting the answers you need or a custom product you've dreamed up. We like to think our commitment to our customers speaks volumes about what makes Spike different. Some might say our products speak for themselves."
I get it thats not a iron clad legally binding form but it says what it says. I had to resolve an issue with SS brewtech and it took months once they got bought out they became an entirely different company.
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Curious what your concern is. Spike has always stood behind their products.
You order it. It's shipped. It's either intact or it's not. A binary question. If problems, they will rectify. If not, enjoy their superior products.
You order it. It's shipped. It's either intact or it's not. A binary question. If problems, they will rectify. If not, enjoy their superior products.
CodeSection
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Meh, I understand those drinking the Kool-Aid. The funny thing is these die hard supporters give an excuse for their favorite company but not for other companies and their products. Go figure. I haven't met an individual who bought a new car in the US and did not expect a warranty on it.....
I guess there is a need to point out the obvious a third time, their competitors all have warranties. So, others including potential buyers should question their move to remove their warranty on everything except the Nano Systems and Spike Systems. I find that type of company behavior questionable and others should too.
If it was not such a big deal, they would not have removed it.
specialkayme
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I think there's a point here.
CS isn't just talking about the fact that Spike doesn't offer a warranty compared to competitors. There are dozens of reasons why a company won't provide a written warranty. Sometimes it's questionable manufacturing or supply concerns (I don't think that's what's going on here, but who knows). Mostly its a bureaucratic battle between the insurance agents, the lawyers, the accountants, and the sales people. Whether Spike stands behind their products is separate from the written warranty.
But if Spike already had that battle and previously provided a warranty, why would they suddenly decide to remove it? The only warranty information available now is here (Warranty) where they say "Other than that [panels and pumps] there aren't many components that will wear out or break since everything is stainless" which doesn't provide too much comfort, and here (Nano Warranty) which is only about nano systems.
Considering that the nano warranty has complete discretion to Spike on whether to honor it (most warranties do), I doubt the removal of the warranty was because some bonehead did something dumb. Instead, it's likely more an indication that Spike believes the warranty is too "costly" or "risky" to the company compared to historically. Now, why would that be?
Brian allerton
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Brian allerton
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https://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/S_S...ting_1_2_MNPT_p/1-2mnpt-post-liquid-19-32.htmhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/S_S...ting_1_2_NPT_Gas_p/1-2mnpt-post-gas-19-32.htmhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/CM_..._3_8_OD_Barb_p/cmb-ballock-gas-3-8barb-sh.htmhttps://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/CM_...ect_3_8_Barb_p/cmb-ballock-bev-3-8barb-sh.htm
jekeane
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No problem asking questions. It is curious if they had a warranty up and then took it down. Have you asked them? I just sent them an email to see what they say.
I don't view stout or brewershardware as direct comparison. Both of those companies are pro focused and comparable products are in a very different price range. I did own a stout conical years ago and it made me stop using conicals all together. I had a kettle of theirs that was great though. Brewers hardware site is down for me right now but i recall their conicals costing a fortune.
Here is SS brewtechs warranty:
"Ss Brewtech provides a one year limited warranty to the original purchaser that our product(s) will be free from manufacturing defects in material and workmanship. The limited warranty covers only those defects and/or product failures that arise as a result of normal use, and does not cover any problems that originate from
- Improper cleaning, care, and maintenance
- Modifications made to a product
- Operation outside the product’s published specifications
- Damage caused by incorrect assembly
- Exceeding recommended operational limits
Ss Brewtech reserves the right to request the original purchaser to return the defective item, at the purchaser's expense, before processing the warranty claim and issuing a replacement. If a direct replacement is no longer available, a product that serves the same purpose with equal or greater value shall be awarded. Ss Brewtech, at its discretion may also opt to simply refund the full purchase price in lieu of replacing the product.
Ss Brewtech limited warranty is only applicable to customer-direct sales of home brewing equipment. Claims that materialize from products manufactured by Ss Brewtech, that are sold by another retailer, should be processed by the original retailer."
Notice that if you buy from anyone other than ss direct the warranty is not with them. Also if you add a port to any of their products the warranty is void. They offer no in house customization however they will sell you the tools to void your warranty.
The only thing they are really covering legally is a manufacturing defect something that is generally noticed on first or second use.
This is the meme i meant to put up:
(Point is, as spelled out above, a warranty is not a promise that all will be fixed. Often it is a gimick written by lawyers and marketing. The proof is in the pudding. I have not seen ANY postings where people complain about the customer service from Spike. I did not drink the koolaid, but as mentioned multiple times in this thread Spike has stepped up. They know this market. They know the speciality customers they serve. Reputation is HUGE in this community. Will they fix our user errors? I hope not. Will the stand behind their products? I have not seen anythig to the contrary. I am sure there are a few our there tho.
I fully intend my liver to fail before my Spike cf5.)
(Point is, as spelled out above, a warranty is not a promise that all will be fixed. Often it is a gimick written by lawyers and marketing. The proof is in the pudding. I have not seen ANY postings where people complain about the customer service from Spike. I did not drink the koolaid, but as mentioned multiple times in this thread Spike has stepped up. They know this market. They know the speciality customers they serve. Reputation is HUGE in this community. Will they fix our user errors? I hope not. Will the stand behind their products? I have not seen anythig to the contrary. I am sure there are a few our there tho.
I fully intend my liver to fail before my Spike cf5.)
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I've been trying out some similar processes lately. Two batches ago I transferred from the BV to a sealed conical (pump). I then soft crashed to 45F overnight. The next morning I applied ~2 psi CO2 and dumped 2-3 liters of hops/trub, followed by an injection under pressure of a bit more than 1 liter of krausening yeast using Jaybird's sight glass yeast brink.
The process went smoothly enough, but it's still conditioning and the keg hasn't been tapped so the jury is still out. I know that 'orthodoxy' demands that we pitch as soon as the wort is in the fermenter and this flies in the face of those procedures. Since I treat with "Trifecta" and transfer directly into a closed fermenter, then refrigerate it in the conical and pitch under pressure (oxygen free), the likelihood of oxidation and infection are minimized. It remains to be seen if I'm successful or whether it's even worth the effort.
With all that said, 'some' trub in the fermenter isn't necessarily a bad thing, but how much is too much? My bias is that "less(trub) is more(better)."
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CodeSection
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I'm glad you concur with my post #1897 that Stout and Brewers Hardware may be in a higher league. Also, I'm glad you posted SS Brewtech's entire warranty where they cover "Ss Brewtech provides a one year limited warranty to the original purchaser that our product(s) will be free from manufacturing defects in material and workmanship. The limited warranty covers only those defects and/or product failures that arise as a result of normal use, and does not cover any problems that originate from ....".
So, I am shocked Spike removed their warranty involving that basic coverage. Perhaps when Spike responds to your email, they can post here and on their website why they do not give such a warranty except as I pointed out on the Nano Systems and Spike Systems.
Its nice to see buyers passionate on their purchases. I ask you by removing a previous warranty involving manufacturing defects in material and workmanship, who does that benefit? Does it benefit the consumer or the company? IF they intend to honor manufacturing defects and workmanship, then why remove the warranty saying they will honor it? Doesn't really make sense does it?
The meme really doesn't advance a serious discussion about the removal of a warranty. Nor do statements about "user errors". We are discussing manufacturing workmanship here, not user errors.
BTW, have you noticed Spike has stop using the cute marketing slogan you repeated about a buyer's liver failing before their product? I wonder why....
I suspect the removal of warranty occurred about the same time Spike issued a gas manifold warning on November 25, 2019...... Spike Gas Manifold Safety Warning
Good catch on the liver failure tag line.
Removing the previously disclosed warranty would of been a business decision.
Frankly that SS Brewtech warranty might of been one of the reasons I initially went with Spike. I remember being annoyed reading that line about demanding a return shipping on a defective product at purchasers expense. I paid you to ship me a non-defective product and you failed to meet your obligation to do so created when you took my money. Now I am out of pocket to get it resolved? Not to mention inconvenienced.
Anyway the two changes and I imagine there are more put the idea maybe Spike is getting ready to be sold and have lawyers and accountants getting them tidied up for sale. Perhaps the buyer intended to make the warranty consistent with their existing business but did not want to be blamed for the change by the customers. In that case they may have told Spike that Spike needs to fix it before the sale.
Removing the previously disclosed warranty would of been a business decision.
Frankly that SS Brewtech warranty might of been one of the reasons I initially went with Spike. I remember being annoyed reading that line about demanding a return shipping on a defective product at purchasers expense. I paid you to ship me a non-defective product and you failed to meet your obligation to do so created when you took my money. Now I am out of pocket to get it resolved? Not to mention inconvenienced.
Anyway the two changes and I imagine there are more put the idea maybe Spike is getting ready to be sold and have lawyers and accountants getting them tidied up for sale. Perhaps the buyer intended to make the warranty consistent with their existing business but did not want to be blamed for the change by the customers. In that case they may have told Spike that Spike needs to fix it before the sale.
CodeSection
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Did you notice Spike's warranties on their Nano Systems and Spike Systems are silent on who pays returned shipping?
I could not find where SS Brewtech's demands a buyer pays for shipping on returning a defective product. Could you provide that link?
https://www.ssbrewtech.com/pages/policy-stuff
https://www.ssbrewtech.com/pages/faq
Point taken about expressly providing the warranty information. But that's for lawyers. In reality, relatively few people will take a homebrew company to court over a warranty, even if the company has one and fails to fully live up to it unless it is egregious. (Ok, I'm ready for some flak here, but it's true).
The real (effective) "warranty" at this level is how the company treats its customers and what they come to expect. Spike has invested heavily to try and develop its brand to be seen as the most brewer-friendly manufacturer/supplier of brew kettles and conicals in the industry. And they've been largely successful, as this site illustrates. It only takes a few number of bad experiences to destroy all that hard work, as the word will spread faster than Corona on sites like this one.
I, like a good many here, have only had great customer service experiences with them, and for us (and those who read about and believe our experiences), that is worth much more than what is written in any "warranty". We are all aware of people who have had horrible, endless experiences with companies (in all areas of life) trying to get them to honor their warranty. If Spike starts down a different path for whatever reason, then educated buyers will quickly know that and develop a different perspective as to the value of their products.
I guarantee it.
The real (effective) "warranty" at this level is how the company treats its customers and what they come to expect. Spike has invested heavily to try and develop its brand to be seen as the most brewer-friendly manufacturer/supplier of brew kettles and conicals in the industry. And they've been largely successful, as this site illustrates. It only takes a few number of bad experiences to destroy all that hard work, as the word will spread faster than Corona on sites like this one.
I, like a good many here, have only had great customer service experiences with them, and for us (and those who read about and believe our experiences), that is worth much more than what is written in any "warranty". We are all aware of people who have had horrible, endless experiences with companies (in all areas of life) trying to get them to honor their warranty. If Spike starts down a different path for whatever reason, then educated buyers will quickly know that and develop a different perspective as to the value of their products.
I guarantee it.
CodeSection
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Yep, so true. That is why I was so shocked they took that route. Why?
BTW, no one really needs a lawyer to enforce product warranties. Each State has their own consumer protection divisions (typically in their AG office) that routinely handles warranty breaches, misrepresentation, marketing fraud to name a few.....
The bold sentence below is what I saw.
Warranty
Ss Brewtech provides a one year limited warranty to the original purchaser that our product(s) will be free from manufacturing defects in material and workmanship. The limited warranty covers only those defects and/or product failures that arise as a result of normal use, and does not cover any problems that originate from:
- Improper cleaning, care, and maintenance
- Modifications made to a product
- Operation outside the product’s published specifications
- Damage caused by incorrect assembly
- Exceeding recommended operational limits
Ss Brewtech reserves the right to request the original purchaser to return the defective item, at the purchaser's expense, before processing the warranty claim and issuing a replacement. If a direct replacement is no longer available, a product that serves the same purpose with equal or greater value shall be awarded. Ss Brewtech, at its discretion may also opt to simply refund the full purchase price in lieu of replacing the product.
Ss Brewtech limited warranty is only applicable to customer-direct sales of home brewing equipment. Claims that materialize from products manufactured by Ss Brewtech, that are sold by another retailer, should be processed by the original retailer.
I see that now. Also their warranty that is still up there just generally reads a lot friendlier than SS. Again as many have said in this fanboy thread so far Spike had done a good job with most of us with respect to standing behind their products. They seem to treat this as a family business and work hard to protect their reputation. That is something that might change following a change in ownership at which point their written promises might become more important.
specialkayme
Well-Known Member
Holy crap. I didn't notice that.
That slogan accounted for a big portion of my comfort in buying my custom kettle from them. Yes, I know it's a slogan, and yes I know it isn't legally enforceable, but it spoke volumes to me about the type of reputation Spike was working hard to build, and the quality of the products they were looking to put out.
The removal of the slogan also may impact my comfort moving forward.
specialkayme
Well-Known Member
It's just there to protect the company in the event someone claims the product is "too shiney" or "looks odd" and therefore defective. Companies can lose hundreds if not thousands on one customer's odd expectations.
I ran into the same issue with a Sig I purchased a while back. Everyone talked about how the customer service was top notch, and they always stand behind their products. The feed ramp ended up being jacked up, causing jamming. I contacted them, and they informed me I could send it back, but their policies required me to pay return shipping if they couldn't find anything "out of spec" with the gun. I wasn't happy with that. In the end, the shot 50 rounds through it, couldn't get it to jam, filed down the feed ramp as a precaution, and sent it back without charging me shipping. When I called them up to ask them about the return shipping, the customer service rep just indicated that it's there for situations where a customer sends back the gun every month or so when nothing is wrong with it.
jekeane
Well-Known Member
You clearly have a frustration or agenda against Spike I'm interested in what happened or what it stems from. I doubt it has much to do with the removal of a warranty statement. Were you the guy who blew up his fermentor trying to pressure ferment? I kid.
I did not give the glowing review of stout and brewers hardware being in a "higher league" that you perceived. Actually in a round about way I stated that the Stout conical I owned was garbage. In fact I almost used it as a fun planter in my garden but my friend wanted it. then he hated it so we put it in a raffle. The kettle was nice. It was also a $600 10 gallon kettle so it better be amazing.
Brewers Hardware until recently only sold a jacketed conical that cost 2 times what spikes model did. Its nice but its a different animal. Their more recent "entry" conical looks nice and Im sure it is but right of the bat its $150 more for the 8 gallon and $275 for the 15 The 3" port means you will need to get a custom coil made for it unless you have freezer space. I assume the non jacketed are pressure capable but I'm not seeing ratings.
We have clearly moved way off track of the point of this thread so Ill leave it at this until / if I hear back from Spike.
Again, you can have a warrantied (or guaranteed) piece of sheet in a box. Still means you have a piece of crap.
It always comes down to service.
A company will either stand behind its' products/services or it will not.
Whether there is any type of 'Warranty' is largely irrelevant (unless it is a highly regulated consumer industry like automobiles) as there are always loop holes.
This is such a niche market, that is frankly shrinking (all covid-19 related issues aside) and there is already plenty of supply.
All the players, and frankly all the retailers, too- have to compete for a limited consumer base.
Word of mouth in any specialty hobby field far and above trumps what's printed on the side of the box.
If it's sheet to begin with, it'll be sheet tomorrow, too.
Nothing in life cannot be explained by a Chris Farley reference (RIP!).
Now- for the liver thing.... I think that probably was a marketing choice.... after all, their products are used to manufacturer a substance that many people struggle with over consumption. And a percentage of those folks do indeed destroy their liver (and other organs) in a sad manner. I bet they decided in good taste? my $0.02 on that. Or, it was indeed the G-D Lawyers!
Edit: I ended up going with Spike over SS, Blichmann, stout, etc. solely on cost. Not a fan boy- just a happy customer
It always comes down to service.
A company will either stand behind its' products/services or it will not.
Whether there is any type of 'Warranty' is largely irrelevant (unless it is a highly regulated consumer industry like automobiles) as there are always loop holes.
This is such a niche market, that is frankly shrinking (all covid-19 related issues aside) and there is already plenty of supply.
All the players, and frankly all the retailers, too- have to compete for a limited consumer base.
Word of mouth in any specialty hobby field far and above trumps what's printed on the side of the box.
If it's sheet to begin with, it'll be sheet tomorrow, too.
Nothing in life cannot be explained by a Chris Farley reference (RIP!).
Now- for the liver thing.... I think that probably was a marketing choice.... after all, their products are used to manufacturer a substance that many people struggle with over consumption. And a percentage of those folks do indeed destroy their liver (and other organs) in a sad manner. I bet they decided in good taste? my $0.02 on that. Or, it was indeed the G-D Lawyers!
Edit: I ended up going with Spike over SS, Blichmann, stout, etc. solely on cost. Not a fan boy- just a happy customer
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CodeSection
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Thank you for providing that information. When I read that before as I do now, that is not an absolute statement that the buyer assumes responsibility for paying shipping on a return item.
I believe that statement is there (other companies as well as Spike have made), "reserve the right", to protect against oner of the above listed problems that are not covered but are not discovered until SS Brewtech's receive the defective item. There is no trickery here as that would be considered a normal practice.
CodeSection
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Oh, how childish.....I kid.
Nope, no agenda and Spike replaced my first defective kettle received and then replaced the replacement defective kettle received. The third kettle received did not have any defects in it. It took several weeks to finally receive a working kettle but I didn't mind. They were responsive when my order was missing three larger items. Finally, they issued a $50 gift card which I told them I did not need but they insisted. After nearly two years passing, I used that gift card when I bought more items from them. All this occurred when they had a warranty.
I like Spike and I believe Spike tries very hard and that is why I am so surprised in their actions.
Meh, I see you are still trying to justify their warranty removal with emotional statements that really do not address why they removed their warranty. Oh well....
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