Spiced Winter Cider

[SvenF]

Hey folks,
I was looking for a nice winter cider recipe that is spiced, cold, carbonated and good to drink without extensive aging. Should definitely be on the sweet side. I couldn't really find a good recipe or answers to my questions so I'm just opening a new thread.
From what I've read so far, I'm thinking about taking 5 gallons of apple juice and letting it ferment with some sort of a white wine or champagne yeast. I've heard those yeasts are better at eliminating the sourness of the apples. After fermentation I'm thinking about backsweetening with something called "Mostfein". It's basically a sirup that I can get here in Germany and that contains only unfermentable sugars. Also I will do bottle carbonation with corn sugar.

Now my main questions are regarding the spices:
1. I'm not sure weather it's better do boil, steep or dry "hop" the spices. I've heard different opinions and can't really decide on one technique.
2. I'm not sure what spices to use. I know it'll be personal preference but what are your experiences? I was thinking about cinnamon, allspice, nutmeg, cloves or maybe vanilla, honey, some brown sugar or even some oak chips. I saw a recipe with sweet gale, but there's no chance for me to get a hold of this over here.

So what would you guys suggest? What are your experiences with different spices and different techniques of adding those?

EDIT: Might be a stupid question, but this would be my first cider. Can I just use all of my beer equipment? Fermenting bucket and so on? Or will there be any bacterias that I don't want in my future batches of beer, like it is when making a lambic or something like that?

 

[SvenF]

hmmm nobody?

 

[lstrowge]

I've done several batches of Cider with Apple Juice/cider. I have had the best luck with Nottingham yeast. It usually finishes at about 1.008 form an average of 1.060. Leaves just enough sweetness but isn't bone dry. I have used Champagne yeast and it ended up at 0.099. Too dry for my taste even with backsweetening.

I use the same beer equipment with no after affects on the beer batches. I currently have a 3 gal batch that was fermented with Wyeast Abbey Ale in secondary on .5 oz of oak chips and 2 cinamon sticks I soaked in Sailor Jerry's spiced rum for 10 days. Hoping for a rum barrel'ish flavor with hint of cinammon.

Inital taste from primary was really good, the Belgian yeast came through very well but not overpowering the apple.

 

[JR_Brewer]

Hey Sven,

Hey folks,
1. I'm not sure weather it's better do boil, steep or dry "hop" the spices. I've heard different opinions and can't really decide on one technique.

I boil in water for a few minutes only to sanitize, I'm not trying to extract any flavors through the boiling process (for instance, the way you need to boil hops to extract alpha acids). Don't boil in the apple juice. I've also heard of people soaking spices in vodka to sterilize, but I don't have any experience on that.

2. I'm not sure what spices to use. I know it'll be personal preference but what are your experiences? I was thinking about cinnamon, allspice, nutmeg, cloves or maybe vanilla, honey, some brown sugar or even some oak chips. I saw a recipe with sweet gale, but there's no chance for me to get a hold of this over here.

Those all sound good to me, pick out a few and go with it. Don't overspice, you can always add more at bottling time if it needs it. Also, in regards to honey, it is very fermentable and will add alcohol to your cider without a lot of flavor. Which is ok if that's what you're looking for, but don't expect a big kick of honey flavor in your finished product.

Might be a stupid question, but this would be my first cider. Can I just use all of my beer equipment? Fermenting bucket and so on? Or will there be any bacterias that I don't want in my future batches of beer, like it is when making a lambic or something like that?

None that I know of. Just watch your cleaning and sanitation, as usual.

Best of luck! Prost!

 

[SvenF]

I have had the best luck with Nottingham yeast.

Hmm what would you say about Windsor or S-33? Both are supposed to have a very low degree of attenuation. Though I've never used either one before. I would like to see this being more of an ale than a wine or even a champagne and I'm guessing with a high fermentable wort like apple juice the yeast has a big impact on flavor. So I agree on substituting the wine yeast for an ale yeast.

I currently have a 3 gal batch that was fermented with Wyeast Abbey Ale in secondary on .5 oz of oak chips and 2 cinamon sticks I soaked in Sailor Jerry's spiced rum for 10 days. Hoping for a rum barrel'ish flavor with hint of cinammon.

That sounds delicious! Though I'm looking for something the ladies can enjoy as well and I'm not sure if the oak flavor would accomplish this... I might have to split the batch

I boil in water for a few minutes only to sanitize, I'm not trying to extract any flavors through the boiling process (for instance, the way you need to boil hops to extract alpha acids). Don't boil in the apple juice. I've also heard of people soaking spices in vodka to sterilize, but I don't have any experience on that.

I might try the "soaking in spirit" and adding only the liquid solution at bottling time. I've read about this in another post and people said it's great because you have a better control of how much spice flavor you want in your beer/cider. This is good because I overspiced my holiday beer last year .

Those all sound good to me, pick out a few and go with it. Don't overspice, you can always add more at bottling time if it needs it.

I will probably go with mainly cinnamon and vanilla soaked in spiced rum for one or two weeks. I'm thinking about 2 cinnamon sticks and 2 vanilla beans with half a pint of rum? I would like both flavors to be equally strong and not overpowering but definitely coming through the finished cider. Anyone thinking about adding more or less? I might add very little orange or lemon peel or maybe nutmeg and allspice for some depth. But really just a hint. Should turn out to be something like a drinkable apple-pie

Also, in regards to honey, it is very fermentable and will add alcohol to your cider without a lot of flavor. Which is ok if that's what you're looking for, but don't expect a big kick of honey flavor in your finished product.

Nope, not looking for a whole lotta alcohol without adding flavor. Ladies won't appreciate such things . That throws the honey out. I would guess the brown sugar is just the same way?

Thanks guys!

 

[JR_Brewer]

Sounds like a good plan, you'll be able control the amount of spiced rum mixture you add to the cider.

Regarding brown sugar, while it adds a little more flavor than honey or table sugar, it's not going to add a lot. If you're not looking for the alcohol, I'd stick with the spices.

 

[Newsman]

Something I read on another thread was you could add some "honey malt" to your brew to add honey flavor. I'd guess you'd have to steep it in some very warm apple juice/cider. Honey malt is supposed to add honey flavor. It will also add some fermentables to your cider and boost the ABV.
Alternatively, you could kill the yeast, force carb and add real honey. Just some thoughts.

 

[SvenF]

Something I read on another thread was you could add some "honey malt" to your brew to add honey flavor. I'd guess you'd have to steep it in some very warm apple juice/cider. Honey malt is supposed to add honey flavor. It will also add some fermentables to your cider and boost the ABV.
Alternatively, you could kill the yeast, force carb and add real honey. Just some thoughts.

Thanks for the input. I think I will just go without the honey flavor at all. I find the pasteurization method to kill the yeast to be very scary. A friend of mine did a big mess doing this. Half of his bottles exploded. And for me it would not just be messy and sad for all the lost beer/cider, also my bottles are somewhat holy to me. They all have this plop-top opening/closing system and I've been collecting them for some time. So I'd rather avoid this procedure

 

[chri5]

For a sweet cider I like doing essentially a small (1 gallon) batch of 1.090 or so beer and using that with 4 gallons of cider. Nice boost in abv and mouth feel, play you get some residual malt sweetness. For me this is the only way to make cider very drinkable, straight juice is not my favorite flavor.

I also like using a clean ale yeast. Typically I do ciders with little planning so a packet of us-05 goes in. The last batch I made was with wlp001 and it tasted great 3 weeks after starting fermentation.

 

[SvenF]

For a sweet cider I like doing essentially a small (1 gallon) batch of 1.090 or so beer and using that with 4 gallons of cider. Nice boost in abv and mouth feel, play you get some residual malt sweetness. For me this is the only way to make cider very drinkable, straight juice is not my favorite flavor.

I might just have to do this as well. Thanks for your input! Would you add any hops to this, considering my planned outcome?

 

[Newsman]

Thanks for the input. I think I will just go without the honey flavor at all. I find the pasteurization method to kill the yeast to be very scary. A friend of mine did a big mess doing this. Half of his bottles exploded. And for me it would not just be messy and sad for all the lost beer/cider, also my bottles are somewhat holy to me. They all have this plop-top opening/closing system and I've been collecting them for some time. So I'd rather avoid this procedure

Yeah, I understand the concern. The only time I tried it was with some rice wine I'd made (if interested see the HUGE thread here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f243/making-traditional-rice-wine-cheap-fun-different-361095/) and just laid the caps on the bottles loosely (didn't crimp 'em down until after the pasteurization.)

 

[SvenF]

Yeah, I understand the concern. The only time I tried it was with some rice wine I'd made (if interested see the HUGE thread here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f243/making-traditional-rice-wine-cheap-fun-different-361095/) and just laid the caps on the bottles loosely (didn't crimp 'em down until after the pasteurization.)

But then you don't get the carbonation...

 

[Newsman]

But then you don't get the carbonation...

Exactly. I don't know what the answer is. Sorry, I'm too green and I quit bottling pretty early on, switching to kegs. Now I force-carb and only bottle for competition or gifts.

 

[chri5]

I might just have to do this as well. Thanks for your input! Would you add any hops to this, considering my planned outcome?

Your welcome.

I usually do add some hops to the malt portion of this recipe. Typically i end up in the low teens for IBUs. This last batch though I upped it to 30 IBUs with almost all of that at 60 minutes. My recipe shows a five minute addition, but I don't remember that...

I took a sample of it just this week, 3 weeks into primary with wlp001 and treetop apple juice (3 apple blend). It had sweetness that I enjoyed, and the apple flavor was quite apparent. I didn't particularly notice any hops, and my hydrometer broke so no gravity reading. My wife also thought it was great, and can't wait until she can drink it.