Sped-up force carbonation?

[PasbitinusBluinusRibbinus]

Hear me out on this one.

Its often mentioned here and elsewhere about the dangers of force carbonation through vigorous shaking while applying large amounts of c02 pressure. Mostly that it is very easy to overdo the carbonation in your beer. Yet, the set and forget method can take too long if you have a time constraint and the beer has already been conditioned.

Am I missing something, or can I blast a keg with pressure, shake the **** out of it, blast it a few more times and then hook it up at serving pressure? The idea being that you under-carbed it, but will reach serving pressure sooner because there is already a significant amount of c02 in the beer, maybe shaving a few days off the process.

Or does everyone already do this and you're all looking at me saying "who brought this guy to the party?"

 

[BroStefan]

This what I do - the beer is at 45 f and I seal / purge the keg with ~30 psi. I then turn the psi to whatever level is needed for correct vol of CO2 and shake. Shake again every few hours. I'll have drinkable beer in 36-48 hours. Still takes a couple of weeks for everything to come together.

 

[Bigscience]

This is what I do as well. I don't think it's the shaking that gets you overcarbed but more the higher than needed pressure. The shaking just hurries along the process.

 

[eltorrente]

It's easiest when the temp is lower, so I do it at 35degrees.

After purging with CO2, I apply the needed pressure based on the temperature it's at (somewhere around 12psi or so), then I lay the keg on its side and slosh it back and forth. Only takes a few minutes until the gas stops flowing in.

It's easier to lay it down, because it exposes more surface area. I just keep the gas inlet toward the top, to keep beer from getting in the line - which it rarely does.

After that I put it back in the kegerator for a bit, and it's ready to go.

I would never use 30psi to force carb, because it just isn't needed - plus you could overshoot easily this way. Also, I like to carb to an exact level (2.3 or 2.5 volumes or whatever).

 

[zeekage]

I do exactly what eltorrente does. It works like a charm and you'll never overdo the carbonation. I also agree that even with this method it still takes a week for the final trub to settle out and the flavors that the co2 adds to meld with the final beer and it to taste its best.

This method lets you sample it earlier though and put it on tap if you're in a rush with no risk.

 

[JuanMoore]

I'm not a fan of shaking, but as mentioned you'll never overcarb if you shake it at serving pressure. The rare times I need to carb a beer fast I use a carb stone. I chill the beer, set the pressure to 1-2 psi, and then turn it up another 1-2 psi every hour or so until I'm at my serving pressure. If I didn't have a carb stone and was in a hurry, I'd set the pressure to 2-3 times serving pressure and leave it there for ~36 hrs without shaking, and then reduce to serving pressure.

 

[eltorrente]

I never consider shaking a "bad thing". I shake it soon after transferring from a carboy anyway, so sediment and stuff is already in suspension in the beer.

Once it's shaken up and carbed, it just sits there and clears up soon afterward.

Also, when I'm dryhopping, shaking the keg will mix up the hops and get them wet and I get a good head-start on it. I typically let it sit overnight at 35 under pressure after I shake it, then I pull it out and let it sit at room temp for several days when dryhopping. Once I cool it back down again for a few days, any sediment is on the bottom and I expect my first beer will have some in it - after that it's crystal clear.

 

[Yooper]

I don't shake at all.

What I do if I"m in a hurry is keg the beer and put it at 30 psi for 36 hours. Then purge and reset at 12 psi. I'm drinking it within 48 hours of kegging, and it's clear (due to not shaking I presume) and forms a nice head with lacing on the glass.

 

[eltorrente]

..and it's clear (due to not shaking I presume)..

Why would it be clearer than shaking, if you shake it right after transferring? The sediment and yeast or whatever will be in suspension after transferring from a carboy anyway.

 

[Yooper]

Why would it be clearer than shaking, if you shake it right after transferring? The sediment and yeast or whatever will be in suspension after transferring from a carboy anyway.

A couple of reasons. One is that shaking it means, well, shaking it instead of letting it sit quietly. The second has to do with the protein and head formation that "breaks up" when shaken. There are scientific papers written about this, in that once you get the foam that it won't happen again, so I won't get into that since I'm not able to explain that but I was convinced of that a number of years ago.

Think about a clear soda (no sediment) that you shake. It takes a while to settle back down. Imagine if you had sediment in it.

Think about an unshaken soda. No need to even be cautious opening it.

I'll counter with this- WHY shake? If you're not drinking the beer in 30 minutes (and who would drink a shaken beer in the next 30 minutes anyway?), why shake?

 

[brew_ny]

about 35 degrees at 20 psi for two days purge and set at serving psi (12-7 psi) for a day and you are good to go

but whatever works for you is the best

S_M

 

[dan_rouse]

I'll second using the stone. I was recently made aware of this, and tried it on my last batch. I hooked it up at serving pressure in the kegerator (started at room temp in the keg). At first, it made what looks like shaving cream at the top of the beer. But I closed it up and checked it about 8-hours later. It was perfectly carbed beer that held the CO2, and had the right flavor from the CO2 being bonded with the beer, not just in suspension. I couldn't tell the difference between that and beer that had been sitting on CO2 for a week.

 

[day_trippr]

^ I almost guarantee I could tell the difference between day two rapidly carbed beer and three weeks at proper temperature and pressure...

Cheers!

 

[JuanMoore]

^ I almost guarantee I could tell the difference between day two rapidly carbed beer and three weeks at proper temperature and pressure...

Cheers!

I taste distinctively more carbonic acid in beer that's been carbed fast via shaking or higher pressures, but not with beer carbed with a carb stone. Aside from the obvious differences in aging/conditioning, I don't think there's much difference. That said, most of my beers are carbed using the set and forget method.

 

[JuanMoore]

A couple of reasons. One is that shaking it means, well, shaking it instead of letting it sit quietly. The second has to do with the protein and head formation that "breaks up" when shaken. There are scientific papers written about this, in that once you get the foam that it won't happen again, so I won't get into that since I'm not able to explain that but I was convinced of that a number of years ago.

Think about a clear soda (no sediment) that you shake. It takes a while to settle back down. Imagine if you had sediment in it.

Think about an unshaken soda. No need to even be cautious opening it.

I'll counter with this- WHY shake? If you're not drinking the beer in 30 minutes (and who would drink a shaken beer in the next 30 minutes anyway?), why shake?

The study I saw found that some of the proteins that are responsible for head formation and retention are destroyed the first time they create any foam. How much this actually affects the head formation or retention is still relatively unknown. IME there's no discernable difference in head formation, but beers that have not been shaken tend to have slightly better lacing and head retention. I also notice a definitive increase in carbonic acid in shaken beer. My experience has also been that they take much longer to clear, although that's just my experience, and I have absolutely no scientific explanation for it.

 

[Bigscience]

Any specific references to the head proteins don't form twice theory? I know I've heard/read it and thought it was Bamforth but I can't seem to find it. Maybe it was a podcast?