Top: "This GFCI can be used to protect 240V 3 wire or 240V 4 wire devices up to 50 amps. If a 3 wire device is being protected a #12 AWG neutral is required from the power source (house) to the load center only.
Bottom left: Netral is no longer required on a 240V 3 wire circuit from the point
Bottom right: If the device to be served is 240v 3 wire the neutral wire from source to N requires a #12 AWG wire. Neutral is disregarded from this point.
... They wouldn't be in the same conduit or insulation, and there's no way it would be code compliant, but it would involve minimal damage or modification to the house and would be very easy to revert back to normal when it's time to move out.
Probably. The panel itself is seldom the question. How to wire to existing non-grounding circuits is generally the topic of concern.
It looks like the dryer plug was installed not too long ago and the dryer outlet box is actually screwed to the side of the main panel so maybe there is a way to pigtail a ground. I move in 3 weeks and will have to check this all out.
I am in a similar situation as the original post. I want to GFCI protect my dryer/brewery outlet, which is currently a 3 prong with no ground. I got an estimate from an electrician to install a GFCI breaker in the box, run the new 10/3 wire w/ ground to the outlet and convert it to a 4 prong, which was VERY expensive on the labor side. Has anyone tried the layout and had success, P-J described using the 3 wires in the existing outlet (hot hot neutral) running it to a spa panel, connecting the neutral to neutral inside, and then neutral to ground out, therefore accommodating a 4 prong GFCI protected receptacle? I'm thinking my electrician would steer me away from this since it is much cheaper and much more of a DIY project
any advice will help
Thanks
I really like your respose: However, I'd also like to talk out some issues that I see with your post....
I sincerely hope that I succeeded in my attempt to discuss this issue in a balanced manner.
If you care to do that PM me your 'stuff' and I'll call you.
Just saying.
I really like your respose: However, I'd also like to talk out some issues that I see with your post.
If you care to do that PM me your 'stuff' and I'll call you.
Just saying.
I currently am dealing with the same issue. I've had two electricians take a look and they both said I need a service upgrade (current 100amp panel is maxed out - not sure if they did a true load calculation as I was at work when they came to give the estimate). Either way the estimates for service upgrade + running new line for 4 prong 30 amp outlet with gfci were both $2,500. This is way more than what I had expected but the fault is on me for not doing the research before I started my build. I would really love to be able to run an 'extension cord' for lack of a better term from my 3-prong dryer outlet to a spa panel in my garage (around 50ft or so).
I'm not so worried about code requirements as I am about safety. Does anyone know if there is actually a higher risk of electrocution or other danger going this route if something were to happen? Safety is top propriety for me - however if this is just a matter of being compliant with code then I will definitely go this route. When I asked both electricians about this they said "As a licensed electrician, I cannot comment about the safety of a configuration that isn't up to code". Their response is completely reasonable and I get where they are coming from.
Either way if anyone has any insight regarding safety implications, if any, that would be great.
:::sorry for the long winded version of a simple basic question:::
Holy dead thread...
This is how to turn a 3 wire supply into a 4 wire run to your panel. Here's how it goes...
Hot A and Hot B cary through the breaker - pretty simple.
Neutral goes to the terminal block (yellow wire going to block shown on left). The GFCI breaker has a neutral pig-tail, which is that curly white wire. It also goes to the terminal block (shown on left). Lastly, a jumper is run from the Neutral terminal block over to the ground terminal block. Ground and Neutral are normally bonded at the MAIN panel, but if you only have a 3 wire supply and you can't go and put in a new 4 wire outlet run all the way back to the main panel, this is the best way to go.
On the load side - the neutral line ties into the breaker (yellow wire coming out of the breaker), and the ground goes to your ground terminal (Green wire).
My two or three cents: Many participants in this forum come here for electrical advice because they are electrical novices. For the sake of their safety, the NEC should determine what "safe" is.......So you really can't split the two without coming up with your own definition of what "safe" is. Some people walk tight-ropes across the grand canyon without a harness or rope - everyone has their own idea of safety, but the national code seems to be the best bet for what an acceptable definition of "safe" is.
-Kevin
Here is the wiring setup you need to run from a 3 prong dryer outlet. You can mount a 4 prong outlet directly in the Spa Panel.
Link to the panel: HomeDepot - GE 50A 240V Spa Panel
Hope this helps you.
Is there some way that you can show me how you have it wired? A picture?P-J,
I got this spa panel and wired it according to your drawing, and tested the outlets with a meter. All was good until I tried the GFCI test button. Nothing happened. Am I to assume the GFCI is faulty in the breaker, or could I have wired something up wrong? The only thing I wasn't sure of was the ground to neutral wire. Does that go in to the bar or under one of the large screws on the bottom left? Does it matter? I see the GFCI went in to the neutral bar and was pre-wired that way out of the box.
Thanks for the help!
Something is not right. Perhaps there is a ground fault somewere in your contol panel? Try disconecting the load output side going to the controller at the controller.That's what I had. The above picture, plus the wire between the two busses, but that kept causing the breaker to trip.
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