Sour pale with brett L stuck!

[Pogopunx82]

I have a pale ale batch that I brewed in december. I brewed 4 gallons and did something different with each one. The o.g. was up in the mid .060's. I pitched a half of vial of WL brett L into one. Almost 4 months later I sampled for the first time and the o.g is .038. Its been in my temp chamber at 75 with the rest of my sours. Now it's got HUGE funk. It taste fine other than the sweetness.

Now i'm fine with how funky it is right now. Should I pitch some yeast. I have some belgian/saison yeasts and WLP001 on hand. Would that work.

Add some other bugs I have OR wait which i'm fine with but it's got huge funk right now and I wouldn't mind getting it in bottles within 2-3 months.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Give it some acid. Let brett trip balls.

 

[Homebrewtastic]

The reason it's so funky is from under pitching. When Brett's stressed it funks up quite a bit.

When using Brett as a solo-fermenter your pitching rates should be on par with lager rates, unfortunately that tends to make it ferment more cleanly.

You'll probably see some slow activity for a couple months (maybe a point or two per month). Your best bet is to funk it up even more. Pitch a sour culture like roeselare and let it ride for a year otherwise I doubt it'll ever fully attenuate.

 

[smokinghole]

I wonder if he tossed in 3711 if it would attenuate at all. Do you you have anything to blend it into? I think that might be your best option at this point. If you have anything that can use some funk that might be the best thing. You have to think that with it being really funky at 1.038 and if it dries out it will become more noticeable.

I vote blending for best utilization.

 

[milldoggy]

Some pedio will help it out, a blend like roselare or lambic blend I your best bet.

 

[spearko520]

I wonder if he tossed in 3711 if it would attenuate at all. Do you you have anything to blend it into? I think that might be your best option at this point. If you have anything that can use some funk that might be the best thing. You have to think that with it being really funky at 1.038 and if it dries out it will become more noticeable.

I vote blending for best utilization.

+1 - blended beers aren't necessarily still- they can and will reactivate given the right conditions- residual sugar can be just as critical to the finished blend as taste

 

[dcHokie]

I wonder if he tossed in 3711 if it would attenuate at all. Do you you have anything to blend it into? I think that might be your best option at this point. If you have anything that can use some funk that might be the best thing. You have to think that with it being really funky at 1.038 and if it dries out it will become more noticeable.

I vote blending for best utilization.

Was also thinking a super-attenuator like 3711 might do the trick, that and some JP dregs. Sounds like the OP has multiple versions of the same beer, so does sound like a great blending opportunity

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Give it some acid. Let brett trip balls.

I was serious about this. What's your recipe like? Did you give brett a lower ph to work in? Brett needs a lower ph and it needs to be overpitched. You probably can't change the pitching but you can change the ph. Test the ph and see where it is. You might have to make some adjustments to the ph with some acid (if you have lactic or citric acid these would work but if not a little white vinegar can also do the trick). It may or may not wake brett back up.

You could get away with tossing in a regular sacc strain to dry the beer out. I suspect it will trigger a secondary brett fermentation after sacc finishes and you'll need to sit on this beer for several more months.

Otherwise, toss in something to make it outright sour.

You can blend it but you will need to get brett out of the picture so it doesn't start fermenting residual sugars in the bottle.

 

[Homebrewtastic]

I doubt a strait pack of 3711 would do anything at this point. The problems not a lack of yeast, there's plenty of yeast in there now. The problem is that they're not doing anything.

If you don't want to pitch more bugs you make a starter, aerate the starter, feed it nutrient, and put that in while it's actively fermenting. That's my only suggestion for something that's not more bugs.

 

[Pogopunx82]

Alright, thanks for all the responses. I'll test the Ph a little later. I do have citric acid on hand too. I'll add a tiny amount. I have a canned starter slurry of jp bugs too.

Blending is a good option. The other 3 separate gallons got different bugs(WLP655 Belgian sour, JP bugs, and the third got a lacto pedio blend).

I COULD, not saying I want to yet or if it would work, but I have 5 gallons of a Vienna based Flemish brown that has been going for 2 months(WLP655) that could use some topping off to 6g. I wouldnt want to possibly mess up that batch though.

All the other 1g's are pretty much done and around .005.

The recipie was simple. Pale malt, unmalted wheat,a little flaked corn. Came around .065 and around 10 IBU or less using stale hops. Mashed higher than normal. 158-159 to give the bugs some extra munchies.

So i'm still torn on what to do. But meanwhile keep the good ideas coming.

 

[dcp27]

Mashed higher than normal. 158-159 to give the bugs some extra munchies.

this is likely part of your problem. brett as a primary doesnt super attenuate

 

[Pogopunx82]

2 degrees isn't much more fermentables than 156. I've read that mashing a little higher helps and not hurts for beers with bugs. It wouldn't create a high Fg that high.

 

[dcp27]

2 degrees isn't much more fermentables than 156. I've read that mashing a little higher helps and not hurts for beers with bugs. It wouldn't create a high Fg that high.

bretts not a bug, totally separate beast. a high mash temp is good when using brett as a secondary, but as a primary it attenuates just like sacch so its not a good idea. the immense under-pitching (brett comes in 1/10th of sacch) is the real cause, but the high mash temp isnt helping either

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Brett will break down those higher sugars -- it will even break down starches if given enough time -- but for reasons not entirely understood, it will only break down those higher sugars and starches when it performs a secondary fermentation. On its own as a primary fermenter it will ferment like sacc and then drop out.

You gave brett a bad environment as a primary fermenter. It needs an acidic wort and a high pitch count to properly ferment as the primary agent. Drop the ph down to around 4 and give it some shaking to rouse the yeast. You might get some fermentation. You might not. It might take weeks or months to drop significantly.

 

[Pogopunx82]

Im aware it's not a bug but it's what I choose to call them and you know what I mean. Good to know about the mashing temp and primary/secondary, do you know somewhere I could read up more on it?
So it seems i'll lower the ph and rouse the fermenter. If that doesn't work i'll just hold on to it for blending in the future.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Wild Brews is a good source (and a cheap book) packed with good information. It's a great place to start. It's reasonable to say it's the bible of sour brewing.

Oldsock's blog is an excellent resource: http://themadfermentationist.com

As is ryane's: http://ryanbrews.blogspot.com

That will give you enough reading for a while. There's some good threads here about some of this info as well.

 

[dcp27]

this post does a great job of covering the flavor differences in primary vs secondary brett: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/understanding-brett-flavors-298943/#post3734990

and this is filled with more brett info as well: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2540232/6-16-2011-NHC-Brettanomyces.pdf

 

[Pogopunx82]

Thanks, im already on top of the sour/funk blogs. That pdf looks interesting. I need to get my own copy of Wild Brews, i've flipped through a buddys of mine.