Sour beer taste, dirty lines? Commercial beer as well…

[RickyBeers]

I have been exclusively kegging for a while. Never fully replaced any lines on my kegerator or basic picnic taps, but always run PBW or line cleaner through (few times a year or as I kill a keg) and then run sanitizer through.

Beer started tasting sour, mostly after taste on my tongue. Sometimes really bad.

I thought it was astringency so I dialed in PH, made sure my crush wasn’t too fine… tried lower ph, higher ph, normal ph…

I have nearly given up on brewing, besides brewing for a friend who claims all my beer is amazing, I usually brew a few gallons for myself with his batch and I hate it.

So today I purchased a keg from a local brewery. I’ve had that beer hundreds of times.

Same. Sour taste.

Is it my lines?

 

[lumpher]

Check your lines, or your tap(s) could have mold in it (them). Just a place to start.

 

[Broken Crow]

Sounds like you had something creep up the lines between kegs, possibly backup in the gas line. Compared to the cost of a kegs worth of beer, the cost of replacement lines is insignificant as a once in a few years or so thing. Also wondering if you have ever disassembled and cleaned your picnic taps. Opinions will vary so get as many as you can and apply them to your setup....mine is: Replace your lines. (Note: Like many on here, I've converted to the marvelously convenient, easy and efficient DuoTight/John Guest push-in fittings for both gas and beer.)

 

[RickyBeers]

Sounds like you had something creep up the lines between kegs, possibly backup in the gas line. Compared to the cost of a kegs worth of beer, the cost of replacement lines is insignificant as a once in a few years or so thing. Also wondering if you have ever disassembled and cleaned your picnic taps. Opinions will vary so get as many as you can and apply them to your setup....mine is: Replace your lines. (Note: Like many on here, I've converted to the marvelously convenient, easy and efficient DuoTight/John Guest push-in fittings for both gas and beer.)

I am going to just replace them all, and good idea I’ll go duo tite. Hope it fixes the problem but also will make me sad that it’s what’s been wrong with my beer for so long… seems to easy of a fix to be it

 

[Yesfan]

I am going to just replace them all, and good idea I’ll go duo tite. Hope it fixes the problem but also will make me sad that it’s what’s been wrong with my beer for so long… seems to easy of a fix to be it

I wouldn't be sad about it. I'd be more relieved if anything.

I also highly recommend the Duotight fittings as well as the EVA barrier for the gas/beer lines.

 

[Broken Crow]

I am going to just replace them all, and good idea I’ll go duo tite. Hope it fixes the problem but also will make me sad that it’s what’s been wrong with my beer for so long… seems to easy of a fix to be it

Don't be sad about it; Be Elated because if that solves the problem, you've posted it here and..given the number of folk buying up the used kegerators these days (which I've been following closely and there is now a scacity of them).. You've provided or may provide assistance to others, possibly in that karmic way where you get offered a beer by someone else who read on here how to set up their kegerator. Speaking for the demographic that has been handed both good and bad homebrews by others, I deeply appreciate your trials.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Stopped in an Irish Pub, in San Antonio. Had an Alamo Bock Beer, on draft. It was so sour I could hardly drink it.
So it happens in commercial bars too.

 

[hottpeper13]

I took a beer fermented with 833 to a pool party and they thought it was a Belgian. It had been awhile so I cleaned the line and it's like a different beer.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

I took a beer fermented with 833 to a pool party and they thought it was a Belgian. It had been awhile so I cleaned the line and it's like a different beer.

Oh yes, sour beer could easily be mistaken for a Belgian Brew. And that’s why we do not consume any Belgian beer…unless we are in Brussels.

 

[RickyBeers]

Just an update - new line didn’t fix the problem of sour beer.
Does this happen often with kveik? I have mostly been using that type of yeast for 6 months or so. I have an Inkbird controlled chest freezer that has a ceramic lamp for heat. I keep it low 90s and yeast hovers in that ideal kveik range. Always let it sit at final gravity for 24 to 36 hours. Most of the time I have a low oxygen pressure fermentation setup with low oxygen transfer to a sanitized corny. Corny is filled to brim with Stan San water, purged.
Or could the problem be sanitizer?
Just trying to consider all possible culprits.

Heck I’m even wondering if there is something funky deep down in my Grainfather pump. I always clean it and recently did a particularly deep clean, but who knows… I almost want to bust out a good old extract brew on the stove top and see what happens

 

[hottpeper13]

i hear that a lot on this site, the Kveik TWANG. I have never gotten it in any strains but I treat it like any other ale yeast.
1- pitch the full amount
2- pitch at 68* and oxygenate.
3- I do a rising fermentation and got to 86* with Voss and Hornindal and 76* with Lutra.
4- I chill to 68* so I get a cold break and keep that out of the fermenter.
5- Double the Fermaid K

 

[Broken Crow]

Just to cover all the bases: You said 'new line'..did you replace or clean out the gas lines too? ..any manifold in the path?.. and to try and elominate the more rare and esoteric; Any chance you're using the perlicks with the poor metallurgy (I think produced 2012-2014..not sure)? Is your CO2 sourced from a beverage supplier? Have you tried the beer outside of your kegerator?

 

[RickyBeers]

Just to cover all the bases: You said 'new line'..did you replace or clean out the gas lines too? ..any manifold in the path?.. and to try and elominate the more rare and esoteric; Any chance you're using the perlicks with the poor metallurgy (I think produced 2012-2014..not sure)? Is your CO2 sourced from a beverage supplier? Have you tried the beer outside of your kegerator?

Good point, I didn’t replace or clean co2 line. I will do that as well!
Also, yes I have two different 3 port manifolds and another tank that’s just a single. Not sure how to clean all of that but I’ll do some research.
No to the Perlicks, I am using them but they are brand spanking new.
C02 yes it’s good grade from a good and Bev company that supplies my local home brew store.
I like the idea of trying my beer fresh out of fermenter, or bottled…
That bring sup another good thought, if I try my wort post boil pre fermentation I wonder if I would notice twang/sourness there…

 

[IslandLizard]

Does this happen often with kveik? I have mostly been using that type of yeast for 6 months or so.

I’m even wondering if there is something funky deep down in my Grainfather pump.

Aside from the importance of giving all your equipment a good periodic cleaning, even on the hot side, especially paying attention to wort (exit) valves and pumps that can harbor nasties, none of those would explain this:

So today I purchased a keg from a local brewery. I’ve had that beer hundreds of times.

Same. Sour taste.

Is it my lines?

It's hard to believe that an infection in your gas system ruins your beer that quickly, though. It's kept darn cold and it takes time to develop, if it can at all. How many days did it take to notice the sourness in the commercial keg?

Yes, I'd focus on the gas side now. Manifolds comes apart, you can then clean and flush the inside as well as the individual little shut-offs with hot PBW or so. But you can't take the shut-offs valves apart, I tried, and it broke.

 

[odie]

I try to make it a habit of flushing my lines with hot water between every keg. I leave the old keg hooked up to keep the line cold and sealed. I then fill a mini keg with 2-3 quarts hot water and just flush the line & faucet right before I tap a fresh keg.

every so often I will remove the faucet and break it down for cleaning.

I've occasionally had a sour beer but that was immediately on tapping it. As soon as I dumped it and swapped a fresh keg in it's place everything was fine...so I suspect a bad beer and not a bad line.

 

[RickyBeers]

Aside from the importance of giving all your equipment a good periodic cleaning, even on the hot side, especially paying attention to wort (exit) valves and pumps that can harbor nasties, none of those would explain this:

It's hard to believe that an infection in your gas system ruins your beer that quickly, though. It's kept darn cold and it takes time to develop, if it can at all. How many days did it take to notice the sourness in the commercial keg?

Yes, I'd focus on the gas side now. Manifolds comes apart, you can then clean and flush the inside as well as the individual little shut-offs with hot PBW or so. But you can't take the shut-offs valves apart, I tried, and it broke.

Got it, I’ll work on cleaning on gas side.
And yes - I agree with the commercial beer, doesn’t make sense based on the discussion. I am wondering if there was something residual in the disconnect, the line, the tap, maybe I didn’t clean it right or rinse enough… it did for the most part go away. That keg does not give me the sourness after 3-4 pitchers. The sour taste I noticed was very strong on the first two beers I poured from it.

 

[RickyBeers]

I try to make it a habit of flushing my lines with hot water between every keg. I leave the old keg hooked up to keep the line cold and sealed. I then fill a mini keg with 2-3 quarts hot water and just flush the line & faucet right before I tap a fresh keg.

every so often I will remove the faucet and break it down for cleaning.

I've occasionally had a sour beer but that was immediately on tapping it. As soon as I dumped it and swapped a fresh keg in it's place everything was fine...so I suspect a bad beer and not a bad line.

That makes sense. I likely should also just break my brewing process down step by step and double check myself to ensure I’m not doing anything that would be leading to sourness during the brew process. Certainly going to try another type of yeast as well.

Fun times!

 

[IslandLizard]

That keg does not give me the sourness after 3-4 pitchers. The sour taste I noticed was very strong on the first two beers I poured from it.

That would point to the line or the liquid side of the tap system in general.

But 3-4 pitchers is a lot of beer to dispense to get to a clean tasting beer. Are you dumping all that beer from the pitchers?
Is it still sour for 3-4 pitchers worth, even with the new lines?

BTW, do others taste the sourness? It's not just you, or you're imagining it? Homebrewers who care tend to be very critical of beer, their own especially.

 

[RickyBeers]

That would point to the line or the liquid side of the tap system in general.
But 3-4 pitchers is a lot of beer to dispense to get to a clean tasting beer. Are you dumping all that beer from the pitchers?

It’s a little hard to tell, for the commercial beer the sourness was strong enough on my tongue that 3-4 pitchers could be an exaggeration. It could have been the first beer I tried (then proceeded to make others try to validate my taste), then it basically set the course of sourness the entire time we drank it.

I’m thinking there was residual sourness from a previous beer in the line. Or disconnect. Or spout… maybe a build up somewhere that didn’t get flushed out at first, causing it to taste sour for a bit in the beginning.

For the other beers that have this sourness, my home brews, some claim to not notice the sourness, I always do.

I am concluding it’s a brewing problem as we talk through all of this…

 

[Broken Crow]

Just to try and absolutely eliminate it; Is there any smell at the tap?

 

[deuc224]

Ive had EVA barrier lines for about 3 years, they are a pain to bend but do keep good for a very long time. But also, sometimes and its rare, Co2 is bad and can ruin ur beer, just food for thought.

 

[RickyBeers]

I appreciate this. That is good to know.
I am planning to brew sometime this week and I'm going to isolate everything in my fermzilla and although usually I put 5-15psi to start to get the pressure set, I'm just going to set the spunding valve open a bit and let the pressure build 100% naturally. Once it's done, I'll cold crash and sample the beer without it every having co2 forced on it. I think that should be a good way to see if there is something wrong with my co2 lines. Honestly though, at this point a lot of it may just be in my head. Although I said the commercial beer sourness went away, I swore I've been able to taste a bit of it on a few beers again lately... Which leads me to think it is the gas line. Or I'm so hyper obsessed with it that I'm making the taste up.
Overall - I'm going to clean the heck out of everything (grainfather and accessories), try to use NO lactic acid for PH control, use a more "traditional" yeast such us05, and sample the beer without co2.
I know that won't solve the co2 line/manifold potential issue for my kegerator, if that's the problem, but it will at least give me peace of mind that brewing and fermenting processes are in check.
Then of course it's taking apart all my air lines, replacing them, and ensuring the manifolds are clean. Fun times!